How many of us are here because we have been affected personally by Men's Rights issues?

mads-80 · 2010-02-08T14:56:53+00:00

People ask me this sometimes in this subreddit and the answer in no-ish. See, I'm 19 and gay and most of my friends are female. Most of the issues that r/Men'sRights discuss are issues of family law, and such, aimed at straight men. I'm here, like you, because I see the rationale of the arguments set forth here, and support them. I define myself as an egalitarian person, I recognize the problems that both genders face, and try to be as unaffected by dogma and personal politics and affiliations as possible. The reason why I participate here is that it's important to dispel the myth the only people who are MRA's are "butthurt misogynists that are bitter about their circumcisions and rape charges" or whatever. People seem to think the movement as so ludicrous that only people with a personal stake in it could possibly agree with them.

As for affected, back when I still looked like a guy(that came out wrong, but most people assume I'm a girl now) I, for a time, had dark hair. One day I coincidentally wore dark clothing, and in the evening happened to be walking home when a woman stepped out in front of me, walking the same way. Now, this woman, in her late twenties, by the looks of it, was visibly upset by a 13 year old boy walking behind her, at like, 9 or 10 PM. I thought it was strange and ridiculous at the time, and chalked it up to her thinking I was some kind of goth, but it has come to my attention that a lot of men experience the same thing, often. That's my only story of being misandristically treated, and it isn't very dramatic. I've had more homophobic maltreatment than misandrist, but even there I haven't encountered anything too major.

2010-02-08T13:15:06+00:00

If anybody is denied justice, I will raise my voice for that person. Be it male, female or intersexed.

As for men's rights, men are being held guilty until proven innocent time and again by the society. That is the sort of systemic injustice that makes my blood boil.

It is as simple as that for me.

kloo2yoo · 2010-02-08T15:58:01+00:00

I was raped. No one gave a shit because I was male. I "should have enjoyed it more." I "should have been grateful." I see the arguments against "men in general", and they're no less sexist than those against women "in general."

I began this subreddit because I made many posts about boys who were being victimized, and they were ignored in the main subreddit, so other redditors suggested I make one.

2010-02-08T15:13:37+00:00

I am here to better understand the detrimental societal messages I received growing up.

kragshot · 2010-02-09T04:48:47+00:00

False rape accusation victim, here.

I'm an African American male, so obviously I really wanted to rape this married white woman. Despite the fact that I was four towns away and pulled over by an Indiana State Trooper for a broken taillight when the rape supposedly happened and the fact that evidence was produced that the woman was involved in an extra-marital affair with another man, I obviously was guilty of rape.

Initially, the judge refused to admit the State Trooper's statement as testimony placing me away from the scene of the crime, but I was eventually acquitted of the crime and did not have to serve any real time. However, when I tried to sue the woman for libel and slander, as well as damages (I lost both of my jobs and my personal and professional reputation was ruined by the accusation) when it came out that there was no rape and the accusation was meant to hide her affair from her husband and family, no court in the jurisdiction would allow the case to be entered into the docket. In fact I was told that I should "just shut up and be glad that they didn't jail me anyway." I even had to sue the state in order to get my record expunged of the entire crime, despite the fact that I was acquitted.

I'm here because history has seen my people persecuted by the lies that women (especially white women) can tell. The dead of Tulsa, OK, Rosewood, FL, and other cities have been caused by a white woman lying about being raped. The famous Scotsboro Boys case in Alabama was based upon a white woman lying about being raped.

I guess that you can see a pattern here, right?

But don't get me wrong. African American women have also lied about being raped in order to get back at the men in their lives or to hide the fact that they are cheating.

But what pisses me off is that because I have a problem with false rape accusations, I am branded a "rape apologist." Fuck that and fuck them.

2010-02-08T19:44:29+00:00

I have experienced sexual harassment in my work place. Nothing to serious, just a rather large/loud woman who used to always ask me to marry her in the most public and embarrassing ways. Constant jokes about sexual matters. I think she just enjoyed seeing me embarrassed. I wasn't to bothered by her most of the time but what she was doing was sexual harassment according to my companies policy. What really did bother me was the attitude of others when I mentioned that she made me uncomfortable and pointed out that her behavior could be termed sexual harassment if I decided to take offense. People would laugh, think I was joking. As a man I'm expected to take it, or even enjoy it. There is definitely a double standard there. That woman has now left the company and I am glad.

Zakrah · 2010-02-08T19:32:27+00:00

I'm gender-queer (biologically female.) The MR point of view is one that's not expressed so widely. I'm concerned about the treatment of people in general, regardless of gender/location/ect, but this has opened my eyes. My mother considers men inherently "a bit pathetic." Somehow, this makes me feel a bit better about it.

svonnah · 2010-02-08T21:22:47+00:00

I wrote a fictional novel about women having enslaved men because I wanted to explore what the world would be like if women were in charge. I was young, and thought it would be a utopian ideal. It turns out my characters had a lot to teach me, and as I worked my way through the book series towards revolution and equality of the genders it became apparent the stereotypes that we have of both women and men, and clear that we cannot be feminists, but must be equalists. My agent has this book out with publishers at the moment and I hope it will be sold soon. It was written for Young Adults but might have to be an Adult book (due to the graphic nature of the female-on-male abuse). I hope that it will inspire young women to think differently about men.

2010-02-08T17:19:43+00:00

Not me particularly. I take issue with many societal problems such as the depiction of males in the media, judicial imbalances, etc., but I'm here on philosophical grounds.

2010-02-08T15:48:55+00:00

Really enjoy hearing people's stories on this thread!

2010-02-08T23:03:10+00:00

I had a girlfriend that beat me up (more than once) the cops laughed at me and my black eyes. Then when I broke up with her she stole my dog, I had proof that the dog was mine, and that she stole him but the cops did not care. Luckily I have such great friends that helped me pay for a lawyer- so I sued the bitch, got my dog back. During all of this she went around town telling people that I was the one who was abusive, and she took the dog because I was the dog wasn't sage with me, good thing only few people bought into her bullshit.

klarth · 2010-02-09T00:05:34+00:00

First: My dad was by no means a good guy, but he got fleeced in my parents' divorce and wound up paying a stream of child support I never saw a penny of.

Second: When I was nine or ten there was a pair of spoiled brat girls with no regard for anyone but themselves. They made a habit of tormenting most of the boys in our class, as they figured (correctly) that they could get away with it. One day, I was hanging out in the library and trying to have some peace and quiet, and she started flicking my ear and bitching at me about nothing in particular. I made it clear that I was utterly sick of her shit and told her to fuck off. She slapped me and raked her nails across my face — drawing blood. I pushed her, and went outside to cool down.

The next few days were a shitstorm. Headmaster told me I was a fucking awful person for daring to push a girl and I came damn close to being suspended. Had to see a school psychiatrist for two months — every session with her consisted of "it's wrong to hit other boys, but it's far worse to be violent to girls". My mum gave me the same "you just don't do that" spiel. General line of reasoning was that I had to have been doing something wrong to deserve being scratched hard enough to cause bleeding.

I also had to write an apology letter to the girl and (for some reason) her mother.

That particular episode of utterly abhorrent sexism has stuck with me for a very long time.

2010-02-08T13:36:14+00:00

I think most of the older guy's here have been through the family courts and are rightly quite pissed about it.

Most of the youger people may not have been put through any legal difficulty's although they will certainly have suffered the effects of feminism in a number of ways.

Certainly the histerical sexism regarding DV, rape peadophilia will have affected most men who have lived in the west the past few decades. Similarly if you've been through the education system you've likely had to try much harder then your female peers.

kragshot · 2010-02-08T14:43:01+00:00

I am here b/c I am a feminist and, therefore, find it natural to examine the ways that societal structures that affect women also affect men (i.e., approaches to parenting, body image, portrayal in the media, the criminal justice system, etc.)

I am also here b/c I am going through some custody issues and am having a hard time navigating that.

strangersadvice · 2010-02-08T20:13:26+00:00

I am currently getting screwed by the courts regarding child custody, support, visitation... everything.

plumeria · 2010-02-08T19:41:35+00:00

I heard there was much lady bashing so I came in for a peak. But after reading some stuff I realized that people suck, and the male superiority (at least in the states) only applys to those in power.

zahlman · 2010-02-09T02:35:01+00:00

I originally came here because I wanted to see a variety of perspectives on gender studies. Then I got sick of it all and -frontpaged them all. I'm only posting this because a friend linked an article from the subreddit and I decided to browse for a little. And now I'm off again. Ta!

Ashali · 2010-02-09T06:34:52+00:00

Originally, I found the mens' rights movement(It's still a pseudo-movement, not having accomplished much, tbh), and agreed with it because of things I'd observed in society in general, and due to things I've seen in my own life. I'd also agreed because the MRAs arguments were logical and compelling, and the arguments society gave at the behest of feminism in general were completely illogical and fallacious on the whole.

Several months later, I discovered that my girlfriend of a little over a year was just using me, because I was a Nice Guy™. She was even cheating on me with "bad boys". At that point, I decided to subtly demand that she reciprocate for everything I'd done for her, or I would simply stop. Needless to say, after a few weeks of not getting everything she wanted, she couldn't understand why we couldn't get along anymore(Or to be more accurate, why I wouldn't just break down and do everything for her), we broke up with on fairly neutral terms. I could have explained to her why in extremely cutting detail(In fact, I'd written it down just in case she decided to have a bad breakup when it came around), and completely broken her confidence in herself as a person, but I'm better than that.

As it stands now, I'm fairly cynical about the female population as a whole, and take to shooting down feminists when they cite false statistics whenever possible(I also shoot down MRAs when they do it too, because the stats favor MRAs anyways; there's no reason to lie about anything). I agree with much that MRAs say, except for when extreme political conservatism enters into it. At this moment, politics have only one thing to be used for in the movement: to show the extreme problems faced in today's courts, and show other places where the law discriminates against men(Implicitly and explicitly). When I see anti-obama shit getting spewed by some idiot MRAs, I physically cringe. Attack the policies, not the man.

P.S. I eventually heard back from my ex-gf several months later. She ended up getting "fucked n chucked" by one of the bad boys she'd gotten to playing around with, and currently completely hates life because she's realized how much she threw away for "might-have-been-s". I might have felt satisfaction about this a long time ago, but now, I just say she got what she deserved.

2010-02-09T02:25:38+00:00

I haven't had any kind of personal experience with it, I'm just here for what you might call "philosophical reasons" (seems to be a common response in this thread). Feminism was certainly a good thing, but like many good things, when taken too far it becomes an absurd double standard, and that kind of systemic injustice that's "okay" because it's against the group that's stereotypically "privileged" (or even the group that was privileged and no longer is) just makes my blood boil. Same goes for the concept of affirmative action. Equality isn't turning the tables and making the oppressed into oppressors, equality is equality. A simple concept that a lot of people miss.

nice_halibut · 2010-02-08T16:38:29+00:00

As a gender, men have been adrift and losing identity ever since the women's liberation movement peaked; we need/needed - but never had - a similar redefining of our societal roles. I'm here in hopes that MR conversations are or will become a springboard to conversations about that.

ymrhawk · 2010-02-08T20:14:33+00:00

I've had some experiences with a few crazies but that wasn't the issue. The issue was that both society and the western legal system has not properly accounted or acknowledged that fact that there will be times when BOTH genders will need protection from the opposite sex.

As it stands right now, if you are a man then you are already at fault when your relationship with the opposite sex takes a turn for the worse.

2010-02-08T19:32:10+00:00

I'm here because I happened upon a subreddit where feminists droned on about trolls saying detrimental things about women and made it a point to link to their comment and profile which annoyed me. A few were linked to /r/mensrights. Then I read some of your stories, and I was hooked.

11213141 · 2010-02-09T05:03:03+00:00

Summary: A girl I met on an online dating service got me blackout drunk, had unprotected sex with me (after I had already said no several times) and then tried to extort $500 from me by claiming she was pregnant.

~~~~~~~

To expand a bit, I had been talking to this girl for maybe a month on OkC, and agreed to meet up with her at her request. I was up front about the fact that I wanted to take things slow as I was still getting over a rather nasty breakup and I wasn't entirely sure that I was ready to start dating again. She came over to my place to watch a movie and she brought a case of beer and some liquor. I was kind of surprised but as this was the first time I'd been on a date in almost a year I just decided to roll with it. We sat down to chat and drink, and I figured out pretty quickly that she wasn't my type. Very pretty, but too superficial, not incredibly intelligent, kind of just generally uninteresting. She was pleasant enough company though, so I kept drinking and I'd do a shot of tequila whenever she handed one to me. Didn't think about the fact that I was having three or four drinks to her one until much later. Anyway, I start getting shitfaced but I don't really think anything about it because I had already told her that nothing was going to happen. We sit down to watch a movie and she keeps beer in my hand constantly. I start falling asleep about halfway through the movie and wake up to her making out with me. My memory is pretty hazy at this point but I remember kissing back and then pretty quickly telling her to stop because she was going farther than I was comfortable with. After I told her to cut it out, she got more aggressive. My body was responding because, well, that's kind of what happens in those situations and we ended up having sex against my feeble drunken protests. I passed out for good shortly thereafter. The next day I felt rotten. I could barely remember the night before, and I was freaked out that I had had unprotected sex with basically a stranger. I told her I wasn't okay with the way that the night went, asked her to leave, and assumed that (pending the requisite tests) that would be the last I heard of her. About three weeks later, I get a text from her: "Well birth control failed us. i'm pregnant"

What followed was the start of the worst time of my entire life. I called her to get more details and things started getting weird. When I asked her if she'd been with anyone else, she flipped out and accused me of calling her a whore. She refused to take a pregnancy test with me around. She kept asking me for money so she could go to the doctor but she refused to let me go with her. Finally she said, "You're an asshole. Just give me $500 and I'll get an abortion." I tried to calm her down and reassure her, because for me abortion wasn't an option. (In fact, considering how much I anticipate being a daddy it was pretty much my worst nightmare) I told her that, pending a paternity test, if she truly didn't want a kid, I was totally willing to raise the kid by myself. She hung up on me.

The next day, she sent me a text message saying to meet her at a coffee shop and to bring her $500 because she had had the abortion that morning. It literally felt like a sucker punch to the gut. After taking a few minutes to recover my wits and my breath, I told her that at best, I would reimburse her for half. She came back with, "Well, actually the procedure was $350 so just bring that and I'll get out of your life forever." I was already a little suspicious that something was up at this point, and the haggling made things seem a bit shadier. I told her to bring her doctor's bills and paperwork with her to our meeting and that I'd reimburse her for exactly half. She went silent for a second or two, then hung up on me.

I tried calling back to no avail. I went by the place we were supposed to meet and she wasn't there. When I tried her number a few days later, it had been disconnected. This plunged me into the darkest period of my life. For months, I was severely depressed because while I was very, very suspicious that she had been trying to scam me, there was no way I could be totally sure, and the thought that my first child had been aborted nearly broke my spirit. I mean, my own dad disappeared on my mom before I was born, and from a very early age I had vowed that I would be a good dad and NEVER abandon my children, and the uncertainty--Was she telling the truth? Did my irresponsibility kill my firstborn baby?--was a slow torture. Worst of all, I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone about it because I was so ashamed, like I should've done things differently, or I should've kicked her out of the house sooner, or I shouldn't've put myself in that situation to begin with. I felt dirty and horrible and scummy and used. The few times I did try to talk about it, people were dismissive or unsupportive, so I just stopped talking about it to anyone. It took a long time, most of 2009, to recover and start to feel somewhat normal. Once I felt like I could bear to think about her again, I had to look her up. From the little information I knew, I figured out her background info and, most importantly, her e-mail address. Once I had that, I found her on some social networking sites and figured out that during the weeks of The Ordeal, she had been dating someone and had been lying to me about going to the doctor (i.e. on a day that she supposedly spent the entire afternoon at the ob/gyn, facebook had her meeting her friends for lunch and manicures.) The real kick in the nuts? On the day that she told me she had the abortion, right before she called me, she had updated her status to "Might be going to James Taylor concert this weekend! Think I have some money coming in."

So, that was my experience. I suppose it pertains to my interest in men's rights because I felt totally and completely powerless through the whole situation. Some terrible, cruel person was making monumental decisions affecting my life, seemingly on whims, and I had absolutely no recourse whatsoever. Although to be honest, I lurk this subreddit as therapy more than anything else. It's good to know that I'm not alone, and I'm not a bad person, and I didn't deserve to be treated that way.

ignatiusloyola · 2010-02-09T13:11:04+00:00

[permanently deleted]

FreddyDeus · 2010-02-09T14:45:03+00:00

The duality that exists in modern relationships is the reason we should care about this stuff.

hopeless_case · 2010-02-09T17:08:28+00:00

One of my wife's cousins was set up by his wife (she slapped herself on one side of her face, then called 911 and said her husband was beating her) and falsely accused of domestic violence against her.

Another one of my wife's cousins and his wife got a divorce after 5 years. They have no kids and he was supporting her while she toyed around with preparing to go to medical school. She is taking him to the cleaners.

One of my wife's nephews in Iran (he's in his late 30's) went to jail because his wife asked for her mehryieh (some amount of money that is put in the marriage contract that the wife has the right to ask for; it used to be that she could ask for that only if he divorced her; in recent years the law was amended so that a wife could ask for this money at any time). Lots of young men have been maneuvered (by the bride's family) into putting enormous sums of money into the contract (like 100 gold coins, which amounts to several hundred thousand dollars). The typical argument goes like this: So and so got 90 gold coins in her marriage contract, and she's ugly as sin. Why would you object to putting 100 gold coins in the contract for our daughter? Don't you think she's better than that other skank (I'm paraphrasing here)?!?

He has been in and out of jail over the last few months over this issue and caught pneumonia as a result.

What opened my eyes to the men's movement was the first incident of a false accusation of domestic violence.

XFDRaven · 2010-02-10T00:05:03+00:00

Personally I got sexually assaulted when I was 6 at a Christian Daycare which messed me up a bit. Neither my Teacher or mother bought into it and wrote me off as just having a fit of bad behavior which led to being put on Ritalin. Only girls could be rape victims it seems.

When I got to University, I found rampant feminism was something you were knee deep in whether you wanted to be in it or not. Some professors of the Liberal Arts courses had their course packets or text books sold only though the Women's Studies department where I found hate filled posters spread about. The girls in various classes would make horribly sexist remarks and get "yeah girl" support, and I would keep silent and roll my eyes because were I to be the one to say such things I would get my ass kicked out for being sexist. The highlight of my academic career with respect to "women's rights," was found in one of the men's restrooms where a urinal had a poster from the Women's Resource Center (probably posted by a male-apologist) which read, "Stopping men from Rape." On it, someone wrote "Only you can prevent rape" with an arrow scribbled down to where you'd be holding your junk.

I wanted to understand where all of this vile garbage came from so I began to study feminism. I read various Feminist Texts including "The Female Eunuch" and started to separate what is spoken from what is believed. I discovered that Feminism is a movement of hate. It was a realization that I hadn't been an evil person. Having the poor sense to be born a male does not make me automatically an inferior being any more than being born a woman. I have nothing to apologize for and I have been subject to the same ills of life.

The Men's Rights movement isn't like feminism - it isn't better rights at the opposition's expense - it is the counter to the undue belief of more rights at the expense of others that the Feminist movement promotes.

2010-02-09T02:29:48+00:00

I have witnessed women's privilege my entire life and for a long time it caused me to hate them. I always see things like they are, and I saw how women were treated like angels and men were treated like crap. I saw how women behaved like animals without repercussions. I saw how men behaved like animals pursuing worthless sluts. This has directly affected me in that I lost an internship to attractive women who were less qualified than me. Other than that, women's privilege and denigration of men made me a bitter, bitter man for 20 years. I ensured I did not get any girl pregnant, afraid of getting cuckolded. I stayed away from relationships with women because they were not fun to be around. Feminism has turned most women into monsters.

I am grateful to have found one woman out there who is actually a classy, classical woman.

Most importantly, I don't want my children to be affected by all this. I don't want my daughter to be a crazy spoiled child all her life and I don't want my son to end up cuckolded or in prison for being male.

Title	How many of us are here because we have been affected personally by Men's Rights issues?
Author	ignatiusloyola
Upvotes	74
Comments	75
Date	February 8, 2010 12:33 PM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/azfxp/how_many_of_us_are_here_because_we_have_been/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-many-of-us-are-here-because-we-have-been.1050896 https://theredarchive.com/post/1050896

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