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"Lisa Ling, Your one-sided show on child custody put children at risk" | Thoughts on this?

Strikester101

June 8, 2020
10 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
https://stopabusecampaign.org/2018/11/15/lisa-ling-your-one-sided-show-on-child-custody-put-children-at-risk/
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Title "Lisa Ling, Your one-sided show on child custody put children at risk" | Thoughts on this?
Author

Strikester101

Upvotes 10
Comments 19
Date June 8, 2020 2:19 AM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/gyq0uq/lisa_ling_your_onesided_show_on_child_custody_put/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/lisa-ling-your-one-sided-show-on-child-custody-put.1063335
https://theredarchive.com/post/1063335
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Comments

[–]Alataire 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Courts create a false equivalency between protective mothers and abusive fathers. Certainly there are exceptions, and it is possible you found one or two in your story, but overwhelmingly DV is a gendered crime. There is a long history of society allowing husbands to control, discipline and assault their wives. There is no equivalent tolerance of wives abusing husbands.

Wives controlling their husbands is indeed not tolerated. It is accepted. This whole article seems to revolve around how good women are in raising children and how it is their innate impulse to protect children contrary to men, for which I have seen no prove. Meanwhile it makes outlandish claims that are are known to be false. DV is not an overwhelmingly gendered crime, it is an assumed to be overwhelmingly gendered crime.

[–]Strikester101[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm more concerned about PA accusations.

Are they actually accurate?

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a common smokescreen used by feminist organizations to oppose equal custody laws

The claim is that an abusive father will always get 50% custody under those laws, which is simply not true.

All of those bills word it as a rebuttable presumption of custody, meaning literally you can argue that equal custody isn't in the best interests of the child. With child abuse obviously being a justification for that.

Furthermore it's simply not true that fathers are more likely to be abusive than mothers.

In fact quite a bit of research has shown that children are safer living with the father than with the mother.

In part because step fathers and boyfriends can often be abusive, and the mother usually will not try to stop it.

[–]plitox_is_a_bitch 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What I'd like to see is a study where real-world custody cases that involved parental abuse have all references to the parents' genders removed from them, and given to a survey sample to read and decide who should be given custody.

I'd bet the results would be surprising.

[–]Strikester101[S] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

I found this, but I don't know to what extent is this true.

I'm more interested in these claims.

In context that statistic is simply not true. The 80% statistic represents cases when a mother and father agree to the arrangement. But in contested custody cases where there is abuse, fathers get custody 70% of the time. If there is sexual abuse, fathers get custody over 85% of the time.

Forty states and many judicial districts have created court-sponsored gender bias committees that found widespread bias against women litigants. Common examples are holding women to higher standards of proof, giving women less credibility and blaming women for the actions of their abusers. The flawed practices strongly favor abusive fathers and hurt protective mothers and their children. Indeed, abusive fathers tend to be more successful than safe fathers.

There is no source for either of these.

[–]Strikester101[S] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

/u/Oncefa2, can you look at these?

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But in contested custody cases where there is abuse, fathers get custody 70% of the time

This stat comes from the Massachusetts study which is known to be fraudulent.

http://www.breakingthescience.org/SJC_GBC_analysis_intro.php

If there is sexual abuse, fathers get custody over 85% of the time.

False accusations of child abuse are incredibly common in custody battles.

20% to 80% of all claims of child abuse are estimated to be maliciously false, with child custody cases occupying the high end up that stat.

And even if they were valid, the theoretical damages caused by that abuse is estimated to be far less severe than the damages caused by parental alienation.

Sources for all those claims can be found here:

http://ohiofamilyrights.com/Reports/Special-Reports-Page-3/Sexual-Abuse-Allegations-in-Divorce-and-Custody-Disputes.pdf

The idea that sexually abusive fathers are more likely to gain custody is plain stupid.

[–]Strikester101[S] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The idea that sexually abusive fathers are more likely to gain custody is plain stupid.

Thing is, the wording is so vague, we don't who committed the sexual abuse; the mother or the father?

[–]Dunkolunko 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Does she mean in cases where the mother is abusive/sexually abusive the father gets custody 70/85% of the time? Or the father? Or both? And against who? The kid or the wife? Important information to know, and on top of her lack of citation, the highly ambiguous wording is suspicious.

[–]Strikester101[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, which is why I linked this article.

It's so vague in wording that I think it's misleading.

[–]Halafax 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The 80% statistic represents cases when a mother and father agree to the arrangement.

The existence of an agreement doesn't indicate a lack of bias. The local court's bias tends to become the foundation of the agreement.

But in contested custody cases where there is abuse, fathers get custody 70% of the time. If there is sexual abuse, fathers get custody over 85% of the time.

The are some nonintuitive outcomes from bias. One of them is that people facing the bias tend to self regulate. If you are a father facing a family court, it doesn't make sense to fight for full custody unless you have a very strong case.

Beyond that, I'm highly suspicious of the nonspecific way they use the term custody here. I think they're counting highly biased "2 days a month" outcomes as custody successes for men. I'm also suspicious that they are conflating accusations of abuse with actual abuse. Unfounded accusations are extremely common in custody cases.

[–]genkernels 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Could be true, but doesn't mean much to men's rights or male advocacy. "agree to the arrangement" likely includes all forms of settlement here. If so, it would be like saying that men who are imprisoned due to a plea "agree to the arrangement" of greater sentencing length. It ignores the reality of how courts work.

Rather than saying anything about the courts, that statistic may well say more about how aggressive and/or conservative the opinions of men/women on whether they are likely to win or lose the custody arrangement and how much it will cost them in the process (hint: while the marital assets may be destroyed by a divorce, the alimony amount is likely untouched).

[–]Strikester101[S] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

One thing I keep hearing is how men can utilize parental alienation accusations to gain full custody against women.

Is this true or false?

[–]SchalaZeal01 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Only if its demonstrated. Mere accusations won't do.

When one parent wants only 95% custody or bust, and the other wants something close to 50%, new guidelines would likely favor the 50% one, unless there is serious reason that other parent is dangerous for the child.

[–]genkernels 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know at all. What I do know is that full custody for a father is rare.

What I suspect is that in family court a lot of things depends on whether the judge thinks well of you or your lawyer. If parental alienation be substantiated, perhaps that would help, or perhaps that would just piss off the judge. Even if parental alienation can be substantiated, it depends on the judge. Fred Hayward is a good example how that can go on right in front of the court and be ignored.

[–]Halafax 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

can

Is this true or false?

It has happened (true), but happens extremely rarely (false). The case I can recall was particularly overt, and made the news because of how unusual it was.

I brought up issues of parental alienation in my custody fight, my local court was not receptive to that argument.

Parental alienation is typically a flashpoint issue for people defending the bias against fathers in family court.

[–]Douglas0327 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

OP can you not write something saying what this is about? I don’t even know if I want to read he article or not.

[–]Strikester101[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

OK, 2 years ago, Lisa Ling made a programme that talked about challenges faced by fathers in family courts.

This article is one of many that has an issue with it, namely how it would "defend abusive fathers".

[–]Douglas0327 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thx

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