How can "toxic" masculinity be the cause of male dysfunction (suicide, violence, incels, etc.) when men are less masculine today then ever before?

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2019-11-11T06:25:48+00:00

Well. I would for one love to see the metrics behind those trends.

But yeah. That's because "toxic masculinity" is a bullshit notion.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2019-11-11T12:14:52+00:00

Feminist theories aren't actually tested or held to any logical standards.

insane_gravy · 2019-11-11T14:02:19+00:00

But if anything masculinity is on a downward trend since the 1990s and accelerating since 2010 or so.

What do you have to support that? Masculinity isn't exactly something that's quantifiable and the standard for what is considered masculine shifts over time.

kabukistar · 2019-11-11T17:59:55+00:00

But if anything masculinity is on a downward trend since the 1990s and accelerating since 2010 or so.

Source?

spudmix · 2019-11-11T20:16:04+00:00

Toxic masculinity is just the wrong male behavior from a feminist point of view, which is pretty ironic, because the very act of calling something TM is to establish 'proper' gendered behavior.

shit-zen-giggles · 2019-11-13T16:50:57+00:00

because women despise weak men and therefore conceptionalize them as toxic.

jobobicus · 2019-11-11T16:59:35+00:00

I would think that the less masculine you are, the more damaging Toxic Masculinity will be, since you are much farther from living up to the “toxic” expectations.

I see a lot of articles on “the changing face of masculinity.” One thing no one ever really talks about, though, is how- as masculinity changes- then the face of Toxic Masculinity must also change. Look at a site like MensLib, where their view of masculinity is so heavily influenced by feminist thought. That will produce a different kind of Toxic Masculinity than what we see from people who hold traditional male views. These are often times men who have embraced a more emotional and open life as part of “modern” masculinity, but then are inundated with doctrine from feminists and self-loathing men. I think this hits them even harder than a more “traditionally masculine” man, and they are thus still very at risk for self-destructive behavior.

Tmomp · 2019-11-11T17:52:40+00:00

It's just an insult and a way to silence men.

spudmix · 2019-11-11T19:30:55+00:00

But if anything masculinity is on a downward trend since the 1990s and accelerating since 2010 or so.

Unless you have an actual quantifiable definition of "masculinity" and studies on how it is "on a downward trend" I believe you are falling prey to fallacious thinking. The tendency for people to believe we can go back to when it was better is strong; we have psychological biases towards seeing the past as rosy and great and the present as dim and poor, leading us to an illusion of a general "downwards trend" in all sorts of things which is, by most quantifiable measures, just not true at all.

AlexandrAndrsonAMEN · 2019-11-11T23:44:10+00:00

Feminiss got called out for their man hate so they created toxic masculinity to blame men adjacent without pushback lol

highmrk · 2019-11-18T20:55:20+00:00

Read Iron John. And while you’re at it, some David Deida and The Boy Crisis. If a boy doesn’t have a way to be masculine in a health way, his natural energy will get perverted and then you have that “toxic” stuff. That’s why dads and male only groups are important. Boys learn how to be men by looking at men. No exceptions.

Plus read Jacobin because it’s tied to our economic climate as well.

And also check out I-Gen. kids growing up with smartphones has done a lot of good, but also a lot of bad. Anxiety is through the roof and a big root of the “war of the sexes” today is just pure fear and anxiety. If people are mainly interacting through a screen, then of course it’s easy for the girls to say “men are trash” or for the boys to go incel

Metraxis · 2019-11-21T05:56:09+00:00

A lot of people act as if "toxic masculinity" were a thing or a set of things that men, collectively, do. But masculinity is not an observation, it's a standard. Specifically, it's the standard for obtaining a relationship. Essentially, masculinity is a thing that women think, and toxic masculinity is the standard of male behavior held by women who hate men, or at the very least, have no empathy. no one should be surprised that those kinds of standards lead to all kinds of dysfunction.

Note that I'm strictly speaking of heterosexual masculinity here. Gay masculinity is a wildly different thing, as gay men are pursuing gay men and not heterosexual women.

ElderApe · 2019-11-12T03:08:57+00:00

I don't know if men are less masculine now. I do know that we are all less violent now though. Violent crime rates have been steadily declining for the last 70 or so years I'm fairly sure. Source for that claim is Steven Pinkers book enlightenment now. Lot of interesting stats in the book.

Title	How can "toxic" masculinity be the cause of male dysfunction (suicide, violence, incels, etc.) when men are less masculine today then ever before?
Author	doom2345
Upvotes	19
Comments	56
Date	November 11, 2019 5:28 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/duntvd/how_can_toxic_masculinity_be_the_cause_of_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-can-toxic-masculinity-be-the-cause-of-male.1064403 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064403

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