"I teach my daughter body acceptance, my son what rape culture is"

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[+]UnconventionalXY -7 points-6 points-5 points 4 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

Rape culture is what happens as a result of a cause: it doesn't exist in isolation.

Men are rampantly sexual beings, it's in their DNA: if you imprison them in an environment where they are not permitted to express their natural inclinations and are frustrated in other ways, then of course it is going to be expressed in undesirable forms. Entrenched homophobia doesn't help, because it sustains men in a resistant modality to engaging in sex with other men as a pleasurable recreation.

It's interesting that rape is essentially now sex that a woman doesn't want at that time, yet if the circumstances were altered, she might willingly engage in sex (eg if it was Brad Pitt who flirted with her instead of took her against her will). We never consider what it might take to change a woman's mind so that the experience is willing participation instead of unwilling rape (and conversely the man is able to be a consensual participant instead of a rapist).

Similarly, we never consider what could be done to change rape culture in prisons to willing participation.

I think maintaining an environment in prisons that encourages rape culture is appalling, because not only is a person deprived of sexual expression, but rape itself is a further arbitrary punishment that the Justice system did not impose.

I don't believe deprivation of sexual expression should be part of the punishment meted out by the Justice system. In fact I believe incarceration should be both remedial and preventing criminals from perpetrating further crimes on society, including on other inmates, until they have changed their ways. I don't think people change their ways on punishment.

I would recommend that homophobic conditioning be opposed and men allowed to consensually express their sexuality with other men in a safe environment, where roughness and degradation is discouraged and mutual pleasure encouraged. I believe men's primary focus is on sex, with the secondary focus being on sexual orientation, however entrenched homophobia has brought the secondary focus to the fore. I don't believe it needs to be this way for all men.

As far as the OP, relationship (including sexual relationship) education needs to be universal and much more intensive than currently. Both men and women need to understand how both their bodies and biology work. Rape culture is just as common amongst women: female partners commonly rape men's resources for child rearing whilst offering nothing in return.

We still let naive unprepared young people out into the world with no education about the realities of life but some unrealistic fantasies and leave it to trial and error. It's appalling that young women don't understand the sex drive of men and think they are unicorns farting glitter: men only really want one thing and until women believe otherwise, they are putting themselves in harms way expecting anything else. Now women are supposed to enjoy sex too and since they now theoretically have full control over bringing a child into the world, they should be able to engage on a simply sexual level with men, as long as they demand the same satisfaction. Men should be under no apprehension that women also deserve to have a good time and how to help them achieve it and vice versa. I think procreation needs to be handled separately from sex, although it is difficult because we are so used to combining them we no longer ensure an optimal situation for all parties involved (man, woman and child).

There isn't even education for men about making a girls first time as enjoyable as possible and not simply treating her as a sex object but an equally feeling mutual partner.

Porn doesn't help because it doesn't generally present realistic scenarios, however it is not unexpected given the vacuum of actually educational visual material due to our continuing Victorian attitudes.

We get out what we put in and should be doing much better by now, not simply wailing how bad things have become and punishing people for being the victims of circumstance.

[–]Angryasfk 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnconventionalXY -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unconventional, I know you didn’t advocate “forcing” men to have sex with other men. You just seem to think that it’s only due to “homophobic conditioning” that most guys are heterosexual. I’ve heard that proposed by a number of people I know: strangely they’re all either bi, or feminist! None of the gays or lesbians I’ve known believe that. For me thing, if social pressure can make people straight, no one would have been gay, and there would have been no Stonewall much less the riots!

And yet you think that it’s only “homophobic conditioning” that prevents guys ignoring women and seeking sexual pleasure with other men? Come on!

If bi guys are able to switch off their attraction to women, and simply pursue other men, well hooray for them. It’s just not realistic to assume most guys are going to do this. And I can guarantee you if you are in a relationship with a woman she is not going to be any more forgiving of you sleeping with other men than she would be of you sleeping with other women! No matter how pro-gay she is!

It’s not a practical solution - and doesn’t really deal with the underlying issue even if it was. So please try using your considerable imagination on considering other possibilities, as that one has fairly limited application.

As for women not wanting sex…

I personally know of quite a large number of counter examples! And I don’t mean women seeking to use sex to control guys, rather indulge their needs. The problem isn’t that women don’t want sex, rather it is a) they’re perhaps a bit more choosy b) in general they do have to be mindful that they may get pregnant, and at least have to give that some consideration - which means they’re more likely to want to have some idea that the guy’s not going to just up and leave (this doesn’t stop them up and leaving of course) and this feeds into the clincher: the laws etc governing our relations with each other are very lopsided, and are getting more so.

This last one is the real problem. And it’s part of the general discrimination in favour of women being promoted by the “new left”: discrimination in education; discrimination in divorce; discrimination in child custody; discrimination in employment; discrimination in DV; need I continue? These things are increasingly impacting gay men as well, and they aren’t seeking sexual release with women. Indeed some have issues with women refusing to take no for an answer, women who KNOW these guys are homosexual!

You’re hardly likely to make women become sex starved and rethink this because a relatively small number of men who genuinely bad both ways are now ignoring their charms. MGTOW is more likely to do that (it doesn’t depend upon men taking sexual pleasure with each other). And I’m not advocating for MGTOW. I can see where you’re coming from, but most people aren’t like that.

[–]UnconventionalXY 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]UnconventionalXY 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The fact people are sexual, doesn’t mean rape is encouraged and permitted.

Yet the restrictions we place on sexual expression through social conditioning and structures create situations of frustration that can lead to acting out.

In nature rape happens: it's neither encouraged nor prevented and is the natural result of the male sex drive, regardless of female interest. Human beings are still biologically animals with the same drives: it's just that we also have the ability to moderate those drives for other motives. Moderation comes at a cost though. Why should men pay a price to moderate their sex drive for the comfort of women without any personal return? What price are women paying for the comfort of men, if they are indeed even doing anything for the comfort of men?

Why aren't we facilitating an alternate outlet for the male sex drive whilst still maintaining comfort of women: basically a win-win situation?

Rape is not a culture: it's the logical outcome from suppressing the male sex drive for women's benefit but not for the benefit of men.

[–]Wilddog73[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No. I think he’s a bi guy, and thinks that women aren’t really “into sex”. And imagines that if we pushed homosexuality men would get off with other guys and leave women alone. The heart of this is an assumption that everyone is naturally bi and is (or can be) equally sexually attracted to both sexes. It’s a fallacy! If it’s really down to this “homophobic conditioning”, there’d be no gay guys.

It’s no solution to rape. No solution to sexual loneliness (it’s a fallacy that all gay guys have satisfied sex lives), and is certainly no solution to feminists hatred of men or the sorts of legal discrimination brought up here. He thinks that if we were all like him we’d go the gay bathhouse thing, leave women alone and all this “rape culture” stuff would go away and the wind would be knocked out of feminism’s sails. But it founders on the original assumption. I’m sick of heterosexuality being represented as a “social construct” that we can be “deprogrammed” from. For one, why should we? For another, I thought one of the claims of gay activists was that if you really could change someone’s sexuality through “social conditioning” there’d be no gays at all. There are strong evolutionary reasons for my being attracted to women. The idea that I’d be equally attracted to another man’s body if only we had “less homophobic conditioning” is totally irrational. I’ve only ever heard this from radfems who want all women to be lesbians (even if it’s against their inclination) so they won’t be sleeping with “the enemy”! And why would you take people like that as your model?

[–]UnconventionalXY -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Sex is common in prison: do you think all those inmates are homosexual or bisexual?

Sure their preference aligns with their sexual orientation, however if it is a case of staying with their orientation and no sex, or expressing their sexuality, I think you will find sexual expression wins out. Homophobia, however is a strong mitigator to straying from the heterosexual path and I believe leads to rape culture as a way of excusing same sex behaviour in homophobic individuals.

It really is all about sex for men. Are you attracted to your hand in masturbation? Why do you think men would necessarily need to be attracted to other men to engage in mutual recreational sex with other men? They are definitely impeded by entrenched homophobia in exploring other sexual potentials, including their own bodies: most men have never explored their own erotic potential and stick with a single approach their whole lives because of social influence and conditioning.

Sexuality is not limited to sexual orientation: it's not even limited to heterosexuality. Kinsey developed a scale of sexual orientation which is continuous from homosexuality to heterosexuality, so it isn't correct to talk in terms of homosexuality or homosexuality or even bisexuality, because it varies. In ancient Greece it was common for older men to take younger men as lovers: I don't think human sexuality has changed between then and now, which suggests it is social convention of the time that largely dictates who has sex with whom and so it is sexual expression itself that is the fundamental thing that doesn't change.

[–]Wilddog73[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Angryasfk 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As I said, are you going to shut the male population off from all contact with women? Prisons are segregated. Those guys you mention have no contact with women, apart from the odd staff member or visitor. I tried to point out to you my own experience living in a remote mining town where women were relatively few! Going home for a visit, I was “dazzled” by the “vast numbers” of gorgeous young women. I’d noticed them previously of course, but you can’t compare the intensity. This is just an indication of what effect being isolated from women can have. How many of those prisoners are “unwilling”, and how many of those who are continue to prefer sexual release with other guys when they get out?

Unless you isolate men from women, you are expecting them to release against their inclinations! At least own that! Radfems demand that. And they’re rightly despised around here.

[–]UnconventionalXY -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet men are being isolated from women through women's actions in being the arbiter of how much sex a man receives: if he is in a relationship with children, he can't leave without his income being garnished for child support and sometimes alimony; and if he attempts to have an affair he is risking the same thing with another woman and being left by his partner and responsible for resources for 18 years. Being single doesn't guarantee ongoing sex without having attractive advantages to women and risking conception entrapment, plus countries are starting to reduce the amount of cohabitation time before its considered a relationship for child support and alimony reasons.

Men are being squeezed out of the sex they want, by what women want being higher priority and they don't have many options left. About the only option that is not currently considered is sex with other men. I believe that consideration is being impeded by ongoing homophobia.

Men having sex with other men, but not identifying as homosexual or bisexual has been discreetly happening for a long time. It's not about sexual orientation but the fundamental desire for sex in circumstances where sexual orientation can't be pursued without substantial downsides, which is happening increasingly as women exert their control over men as hostages or through increasingly picky selection.

Not every man is going to want to have sex with other men or be in a position where he doesn't have other options, but those options are reducing and the frustration is being expressed in societally destructive ways. At least remove the strictures of homophobia so that more men have a free choice to explore other options.

You talk about the effect of being isolated from women making them more appealing, but if those women choose not to have sex with you, or do so to hook you for their agenda which you may not be able to escape from without losing most of your resources and are beholden to how many scraps they drop from the table, what are your options then for sexual expression? Would you not start to wonder whether helping your neighbour or friend with some project was so different to helping him with sexual expression, except you might be called queer or poofter and have your masculinity called into question and thus be afraid of taking it further?

I'm not talking about homosexuality, I'm talking about men who have sex with men: there's a difference.

Why should recreational activities between men necessarily exclude recreational sex? It's still up to the individual, but is it a free choice that is made without societal influence?

Social pressure does not make men straight, but it can dissuade them from considering other alternatives for sexual expression, the same as social pressure dissuaded homosexual men from exploring who they were. Diversity means that there is far more than heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality at work in the lives of men: we just choose not to acknowledge those states as valid for various reasons and thus dissuade their consideration, exploration or free expression.

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Title	"I teach my daughter body acceptance, my son what rape culture is"
Author	Wilddog73
Upvotes	61
Comments	40
Date	August 31, 2021 9:35 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pffgbz/i_teach_my_daughter_body_acceptance_my_son_what/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-teach-my-daughter-body-acceptance-my-son-what.1065904 https://theredarchive.com/post/1065904

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