Thoughts on Circumcision (mgm)

XXKittenishXX · 2021-08-31T03:32:11+00:00

Just want a informal survey on the percentages of men here that support and disagree on this subject, thank you. View Poll...

[–]MrRonchito 50 points51 points52 points 4 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]XXKittenishXX[S] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HCEandALP4ever 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Regarding the decreased sensitivity: it's not just that a lot of sensitive tissue is removed. It's also that the foreskin covers the head of the penis, helping it retain its sensitivity. If the foreskin is removed, the head is exposed to, for example, daily rubbing against underwear. Over time, this reduces the sensitivity in the head itself. (That's why the heads of circumcised penises have a somewhat rougher appearance than the smooth skin of a penis head protected by foreskin.)

There's one other thing I don't see talked about much: frequently the reduction in sensitivity gets worse with age. I'm circumcised, and I'm in my 50s. I've lost a huge amount of sensitivity simply due to decades of the head being exposed when it should be protected by foreskin.

I've consulted with doctors, had various tests run. There is nothing else wrong with me -- no nerve damage from illness or injury. The decreasing sensitivity is simply a long-term effect of circumcision. Furthermore, the decrease is ongoing. Evidently this is pretty common. Now, at 56 years old, more than half my penis head is numb to any stimulus. Can you imagine what that does to my ability to enjoy sex?

And you want to know two other cheerful facts I live with? First, that sensitivity is gone forever. There's no way to recover it. Second, as time goes on, it will probably get worse.

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Here are the main reasons: 1. Religion - circumcision is a child blood sacrifice made to god. Adherents of this ritual believe that they must do this to children and slaves in exchange for becoming the father of many nations and so they aren't ostracized from their tribe (Genesis 17). Many areas in the world have been influenced by judaic or Islamic thinking.

Profit/Greed - in places like the usa, circumcision is the most common operation done in the region and it's a billion dollar industry. A OBGYNs and Pediatricians will easily make an extra 6 figures a year just from circumcision alone. These doctors are not held accountable for the damage they cause so it's very profitable.
Social conformity - in some places, (the Philippines and usa especially), you will be culturally shamed if you aren't mutilated.
Coming of age ritual - among some African tribes, the Philippines, and among australian aboriginals, a man is not considered to be an adult until he has been circumcised... The idea is that the man shows to his tribe that he can withstand the worst pain imaginable, to demonstrate his devotion to the tribe and to show that he's a disposable utility for the tribe.
Ego, pride, and/or ignorance of parents - A lot of people don't know how harmful mgm actually is. Many refuse to believe the facts about how damaging it is, because that would mean confronting the fact that they were victims or that they or their family victimized somebody. It also would challenge their beliefs about the medical industry, society, government, parenting, religion or other beliefs, so for most people it is more comfortable for them to accept a comforting lie over the harsh truth.
Tradition - because their family has done it before, they keep doing it to their own kids and don't even question it.
Fetishism - believe it or not, but there are people who circumcise children because they have a sexual fetish for it. One of the top promoters of circumcision in the world - Brian Morris is a confirmed circumfetishist along with some of his colleagues. One of his colleagues who was publishing pro-circumcision articles with him was arrested for child pornography.
The male/female empathy gap - most parents know they are hurting their child when they circumcise him. And many have a double standard in their attitude toward boys and girls. Boys are expected to "take it like a champ", while any thought of hurting their baby girl is disgusting in their mind.
Misinformation - some of the aforementioned groups have deliberately crafted bogus studies or have spread false information or rumors which have taken root in the minds of gullible people. For example, proponents of circumcision used to claim that it prevented siphilus, prevented club foot, prevented black men from raping white women, that it was a cure all, and many other insane claims which have long been debunked.... These days they try to claim that mutilation is cleaner or that it prevents UTIs, cancer, and HIV, which have also all been debunked. These people have an agenda and will keep making up lies to get what they want.

[–]ShaidarHaran2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Well trained surgeons do it.

Unfortunately you just stumbled on a very disappointing rabbit hole that just gets more aggravating the more you learn about it.

It's often not those well trained surgeons that do it. Many residents end up having that as one of their first surgeries, "scalpel practice". And they're like 16 years removed from knowing if they did something wrong, like a number of men have issues with their circumcision being too tight and causing pain. Let alone it's also done outside a medical setting with a moil or imam as well, and a study in the UK found a 45% complication rate in the Islamic practice.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/male-circumcision-baby-goodluck

And then you start to consider that wherever you decouple the profit motive from healthcare, circumcision drops like a rock. It's a quick procedure on a "client" that can't say no most of the time in babies and children, and there are products that use foreskin, like some facial creams, it's a big industry that keeps it going, and any movement to limit it results in a religious backlash.

Iceland and Germany among some others tried to curb it legally but the religious backlash watered it down. The irony is that places with the rates low enough to ban it probably don't care that much, where the ones with significant rates aren't going to do it because there's a bunch of cut guys in the politics as well.

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Last resort cases would be like... A cancerous growth on the foreskin, gangrene, bad frost bite, or a very bad burn. But cases like these are so rare that they are almost unheard of. (Same thing would apply to the clitoral hood or labia in women btw)..

However, 90% of "medical" circumcisions are done for phimosis or paraphimosis. Phimosis is normal in early childhood and resolves itself 99% of the time before the child turns 18, but it's still treated as a problem by many doctors... If it's still a problem in adulthood, that can be cured with less invasive methods. A "medical" exemption for this should not be allowed.

Other "medical" excuses given for circumcision is recurrent balanitis, or recurrent UTIs which can be cured with antibiotics and different hygiene habits.

Another not so uncommon reason given for circumcision is meatel stenosis... Which is ironic, because circumcised men are 20 times more likely to have meatel stenosis. The cure for this is a meatotomy, not a circumcision.

So yeah basically almost every single circumcision ever done, even for "medical" reasons, was medically unnecessary and should be considered malpractice. It's better to not allow exceptions for these....

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Welcome to a very disappointing rabbit hole about the human race. This other story is one of the most messed up stories I know of. Twin boys were slotted for circumcision due to apparent phimosis (the glans is fused to the foreskin until puberty, so how could they tell first off), but the doctor used the wrong tool and destroyed the first ones penis.

So these absolute bell ends decided, hey, a guy without a penis is a girl, right? The mother had seen this theory from the quack doctor John Money. And decided to raise him as a girl. Only in his teen years did his father confess to the accident after him wondering what was wrong.

Money forced the twins to act out the motions of sex and...Well I'm pretty sure the guy was a pedo and contributed to this poor mans suicide.

By the way, that other twin with apparent phimosis? Treated itself, so this guys whole life was made a living hell for no reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw24j0Litlc

[–]Pulacascar 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ShaidarHaran2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the needless risk for a needless procedure. There's no medical code for "circumcision death", but estimates are 100-200 boys sacrificed to the procedure a year in the US, far more globally, and such studies have to find a way to count them via events like blood loss or cardiac arrest in the day after circumcision.

http://www.cirp.org/library/death/

Then consider that for every death there are many times more amputations, like Brian there. These boys had their sex lives robbed of them for no reason. For the >>>1% that will truly need the procedure, they can do that, doing it on everyone is a ludicrous tradeoff.

72 penile amputations registered, "1 case of stricture of male genital organs, 3 cases of partial amputation of penis, 4 cases of replantation of penis, and 16 cases of suture of artery", just...Why.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Intactivism/comments/on16fx/1_case_of_stricture_of_male_genital_organs_3/

[–]Kato_Okulvitroj 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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The majority of world health authorities except the US do not recommend the routine practice as the risks balance the few benefits. Children have died of it, and for every one that dies there's no doubt many times more with other complications ranging from skin bridges to amputation in the case of excess bleeding.

"There have been cases of children and men dying after being circumcised.

Four-week-old Goodluck Caubergs bled to death after a nurse circumcised him at his home in Manchester, while one-month-old Angelo Ofori-Mintah bled to death after being circumcised.

Since 1995 at least 1,100 boys have died in South Africa after ritual circumcisions. Some penises fall off after becoming infected and rotten, while some have to be amputated.

In Canada, where Alex was living, newborn baby Ryan Heydari bled to death after being circumcised by a doctor in Ontario.

Recently there have been reports of two babies dying within weeks of each other after home circumcisions in Italy, and a two-year-old boy died after being circumcised at a migrant centre in Italy." - BBC

So why risk it? The practice is completely needless and some 75% of the world get on fine with their foreskin, and the sub 1% with complications with those have other treatments available or else can get cut as adults.

There's just zero reason to force the procedure on kids without specific complications with it.

[–]HadrianHoppe 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Isn't it obvious? It's genital mutilation of a child. It's physical and sexual abuse. It damages his ability to bond with his mother (interrupts breastfeeding because of the pain while the wound heals). It damages his ability to bond with future sexual partners, and damages his ability to relax because it amputates the most pleasurable part of his penis for life. It communicates to the boy that he doesn't own his body and that his bodily integrity doesn't matter, abd that he is undeserving of basic human rights. It communicates that pain and damage inflicted upon him doesn't matter, and conditions him to be disposable. It carves a marking on him to pressure him into identifying with his religion or tribe.

This is NOT a consent issue. Almost every adult that "consents" to having their penis mutilated, is pressured into it and/or lied to in some way. Penis mutilation is still bad even if voluntarily consented to.

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A man is literally just that. He is a baby... Not a man. There are literal titles that express such things, you know ages and stages between ones own life. A baby is not a man... But I don't think you're that bright so we're moving on.

Also I want to point out that it’s legal for men to be mutilated but not women.

Wtf are we mutilating from women?! Are you talking about little baby girls?! Wtf is wrong with you?! Women don't have those lips until they lose their virginity. Have you had sex?

People circumcise because they’re lied to

Wtf are they lied to about?!?! Being circumcised was originally for religious purposes and then others did it as a way of tradition. If you don't believe me then read a damn bible, dummy.

The whole “don’t like it don’t do it” argument is fucking stupid, because IT STILL HAPPENS!

It is not mandatory that you get you baby boy circumcised. If you don't want it to happen to him then don't do it. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO happen!

[–]fores2003 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Dead-Aurora-nights -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it’s real, it’s been illegal in the states since the 90’s look it up.

You didn't read my response before rage typing.

2.They’re told it’s cleaner and prevents HIV and penile cancer while it actually takes hundreds of thousands of cuts to prevent just one case

I don't CARE, if you don't want it for your child then don't get it for them. The best thing you can do is starve out the practice but you're too dramatic of a boy to understand that. HIV wasn't around during the Bible. Learn to read.

I may be smart enough not to take away the rights of any sons I may have

Your child isn't even able to consent. It's the parents choices from the time he's born till he's 18. They pick your school, Your clothes, what you eat and where you live... IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BEING CIRCUMCISED MAKE SURE YOUR CHILD DOESN'T GET IT.

How old are you?!

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Y’all nasty

[–]XXKittenishXX[S] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thoughts on Circumcision (mgm)

Comments

EVERYTHING. 😶

Title	Thoughts on Circumcision (mgm)
Author	XXKittenishXX
Upvotes	39
Comments	147
Date	August 31, 2021 3:32 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pexwcv/thoughts_on_circumcision_mgm/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thoughts-on-circumcision-mgm.1066052 https://theredarchive.com/post/1066052