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[–]TheLostTinkerer3 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

There are two top posts on r/Egalitarianism, the Karen Straughen post on r/Mensrights and I believe the pinned post here as well, highlighting why ever since the declaration of sentiments, Feminism was meant as a movement to create two distinct classes of citizens. Nor the movement to gender equality.

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[–]TheLostTinkerer2 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Why would you ever think that I’d read an anti-feminist source?

The guy calling everyone else regressive and regarded cannot take an opposing perspective.😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

I love the irony 😎🤡🤡

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[–]TheLostTinkerer1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

I've stopped writing those 3 page replies because of time concerns.

Few things I'll let you work on:

The debate you've used is called Motte and Bailey
Controlled gender bias (pay for same job, same level) etc is 0.99-1.02$ F vs M. So???
Read the declaration of sentiments. It's not too uncommon

[–]Sup_Im_Ravi -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheLostTinkerer2 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

shoe0nhead button time

Seriously the US labor Beaureau statistics have been misappropriated so many times, they had to fucking release an apology. But yeah keep drinking kool aid

[–]Sup_Im_Ravi 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheLostTinkerer1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha, yeah the shoe0nhead thing is just funny. It's like the Filthy Frank meme. Also you probably are very unaware of the internet I suppose. Given you don't recognise the 2018 revision (the 71 cents statistic is from 12/13. I don't remember exactly). Also imagine calling shoe a Karen. What are you a Drumpf supporting Cuckservative?

Fact check? You literally heard the definition US Beaureau uses. It's the ratio of the median income, normalized purely by gender across categories for full time employees. There's no distinction of jobs, categories, experience, fuck not even work hours. It's not surprising that an amount like that will come over.

So much so that now it's called uncontrolled and controlled gender normalized pay gap (which is odd considering the control variable is the same job? But then yeah we statisticians use candle soap equivalencies so terminology is clearly not our forte). The controlled one comes out in the 0.98-1.04(or 1.02 depending on the metrics used.) range. And see how it's a range now instead of one value. Because there are quite a few pillars they've to classify this across.

Also you do realize right that barring the middle East, some poverty ridden African countries and ig a couple Carribean islands, nearly every single country has actual written laws to protect against gender based discrimination in pay. 2018, Samsung had a major case against it. Post that, Google, Samsung and Intel actually changed the way people are hired to their Silicon valley offices. It's not rocket science.

But then we got oeoole like you, who just want confirmation bias, look at one statistic and go reeeeeee.... Here's another statistic you might find useful. 13/50. It's a dog whistle, but nonetheless.

Also while you're at it, there's a book I usually recommend to people. Darrell Huff's How to lie through statistics. It's done a good job on showing bias models and creating bias in an otherwise neutral data. There's an interesting case of how bias was created regarding Yellowstone's wildlife population. But yeah that's for another time.

[–]Sup_Im_Ravi 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Did I say 71 cents? Where did I say I was a conservative? You realize that feminists voted him out in 2020, right?

Of course there isn't a distinction of jobs. Why should there be a distinction of jobs or any other factors when discussing the gender pay gap? That's like suggesting that we should have a distinction between video games when discussing the gender gamer gap.

I'm aware we have laws written about it, but that don't mean shit without enforcement. Why else do you think corporations tell you to not disclose your salaries to other employees? They're clearly hiding something. Of course corporations had to change after feminists forced them to start treating workers with basic respect. Why? Because corporations caused shit like the gender pay gap to begin with.

Bruh, I don't need to read that shitty book. Ik all about biased samplings and all that from reading pathetic arguments like yours.

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My biggest and most sincere question is, how would this even work? What does “female supremacy” even look look like?

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[–]EarnieEarns1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

I guess, but Men are still running everything. When are a majority of women going to start being Roofers, Steel Workers, Minors, Vehicle Mechanics, Concrete workers, etc...?

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[–]EarnieEarns3 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely, but I’m truly trying to understand this. So what happens in 200 years when men are completely removed of their masculinity?

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there are plenty of women out there that literally want men dead or imprisoned/enslaved for a multitude of petty reasons (more often than not for alterior motives)

Thats called misandry. And the only women that want men in jail are as useless as feminists. They bring nothing to the table when it comes to dating. The only thing they do is complain about not finding a good man while her body count is really fucking high.

Most men are useless and often a threat to women and their interests as men it only takes a small handful of men to literally impregnate every woman on the planet.

Men are not useless, at least most of them. The men you are talking about work the hardest, the most dangerous, and the deadliest jobs in order for us to live a comfortable and peaceful life. Not all men want to impregnate a woman just for the sake of it. Lots of men see having a child as a way to keep the bloodline going and also something to be proud of. Also, we dont need another baby boom, we have enough people in this world.

If a man is unattractive or unwilling to contribute to another man's offspring or the woman's luxury lifestyle then he is automatically deemed "worthless" and "creepy" by most women.

All people in this world are beautiful, men and women. How “attractive” they are depends on many factors such as confidence, if they work on their self, if they care about their loved ones, etc... Men are not created to please women, men AND women were created in order to cohabitate and keep the human race alive. The terms “creepy” and “worthless” arent used the proper way anymore, someone creepy is someone who might have mental issues, such as stalkers and kidnappers. Worthlessness depends on how you put it and what you are worthless to. If you are worthless to society it means that you contribute nothing good to it. Being worthless to someone is them not caring about you at all. Social standards have changed A LOT, we live in confusing times.

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[–]EarnieEarns1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah I get that in the modern aspect... But who’s going to go into the pits and mine precious minerals for the elite phones and computers?

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Systemic sexism presents itself in many ways, but the most common examples I can think of on the top of my head is normalised misogyny, whether it's through subconscious bias, or social norms. Society perceives men as the default in terms that they are more competent, more rational or logical, more fit for problem solving, and more fit for management than women. This is seen in several areas below:

Women are vastly under-represented in politics, business, media, and the public sphere in general. This includes leadership roles.
Women continue to face sexual harassment within the work-place, especially male-dominated careers such as STEM fields or blue-collar labour.
A woman is less likely to be hired for a job than a man, and some private companies extend this to discriminating heavily against female workers due to concerns that she may become pregnant and take family leave.
Women face a large amount of discrimination in certain fields such as the military, STEM, and construction. Generally, if a woman is hired in a male-dominated field, she is often met with heavy scrutiny, is assumed to be hired through a quota, and her competence is criticised based on her gender as opposed to her individuality.
It's not uncommon for a woman to be taken less seriously in multiple areas of her life, whether it's in the work-place or when she's making a large purchase for a house or a car.
Gender roles reinforce the stereotype that men are superior in terms of dominance, strength, capability, and intelligence, while a woman is expected to be inferior in terms of subservient, weakness, submissive, emotional, illogical, and incapable.
Women face objectification and hyper-sexualisation from a young age, including double standards in terms of promiscuity.
Rates of sexual violence, rape, and domestic violence that disproportionately affect women.
Rates of sexual violence, rape, domestic violence, human trafficking, and sexual (or street) harassment dispropartianetly affect women and our society often pertains to rape culture.
Women are heavily under-represented in medical studies which lead to medical bias and make it significantly more difficult to diagnose women with certain health conditions or mental disorders, such as ADHD and autism.
Disparities in pain and treatment in the practice of medicine and ER lead to women more likely to have their medical concerns dismissed.
Women lack attentive care in regards to suicidal ideation and behaviour due to these acts being dismissed as 'non-serious', 'suicide-gesture', or 'attention-seeking'.
Specific medication is primarily tested on male patients, therefore creating a disparity for women in regards to medical treatment.
Over-policing issues over the concern of women's clothing in the education system.
There is a lack of education on women's bodies and improper teaching of sex education that tends to prioritise male pleasure or reproduction.
Women are 73% more likely to suffer fatal injuries in a car accident due to safety procedures in cars being designed for men. This is an example of men being the default in society, as well as medical studies.
Nearly every safety invention is designed for the average man; airbags, seatbelts, dosages for drugs, safety bars on roller coasters, etc. Another example of a man being seen as the default.
Pink tax cut that affects women's spending and ability to access safe contraception and feminine hygiene products.
⁠Purity culture, which is incredibly sexist and while is often mandated by religion, it also exists among those who aren't religious due to sociological consequences.
⁠Several manospheres that perpetuate misogyny that are present within the online system. Incel culture relies on the trope of misogyny.

In regards to abortion laws, many misogynistic men will weaponize the pro-life movement to further their oppression on women. Example one, two, three, and four.

[–]40moreyears 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Half of your “list” is perceived sexism and the other half are cherry picked examples. There are as many of not more examples I can list that would show a heavy sexist bent against men:

deaths in war - men lead
homelessness - men
mortality- men
men do worse in school
more women attend school
men are routinely mutilated genitally
men are underrepresented in health care, including in the doctor position
men are underrepresented in teaching
men receive harsher sentences than women for the same crimes
women are disproportionately awarded child custody over the father
women can literally beat a man in public and expect little to no repercussions

We can go on and on. So if you’re saying that sexism is systemic, how would you explain these discrepancies to your view?

Let me guess: it’s the patriarchy’s fault? Some patriarchy if it’s not protecting men then. Sounds more like both groups get crappy deals sometimes, but only one gets to complain about it under the guise of equality (feminists).

You’re delusional if you think what you wrote shows systematic sexism against women.

[–]slutforfairybread 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Half of your "list" is perceived sexism and the other half are cherry-picked examples. See what I did there?

On a serious note, though; you've gone down the trope where you've decided to weaponize a form of whataboutism to deflect from the sexism that women face and instead compare women's struggles against men's. What are you hoping to achieve through this comment? You asked me what sexism women face in society, and I provided you with a list of many examples that can be validated through credible studies and sources, including one's from Yale, Harvard, NCBI, and several scientific meta-analysis. See here, here, and here.

I would argue that a high majority of the struggles that you've listed above aren't as a result of sexism against men, but are realistically as a result of a system of oppression that feminism aims to dismantle — yes, the patriarchy. For example, child custody disputes are based on sexist gender roles and the idea that women are more nurturing than men, men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes is the result of perceived violence and the idea that men are inherently more aggressive than women, and women abusing men with little repercussions is a result of women being seen as inferior, weaker, and more vulnerable — all sexist stereotypes and culture norms that are subconsciously enforced by a patriarchal society.

Also — with the genital mutilation deal, MGM is not tyrannical women who want to control men's bodies, it's conservative religious communities who want to. Men and women. So that example doesn't pass muster.

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Texas

50% pro-life. 52% of prolifers are women and 48% are men.

Src: https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/texas/views-about-abortion/

BTW the initial sponser of the house bill was a woman.

"Once that heartbeat is detected, that life is protected," said Rep. Shelby Slawson, the House sponsor of the measure said before the bill passed 81-63. "For far too long, abortion has meant the end of a beating heart."

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/texas-politics/bill-to-ban-abortion-after-6-weeks-given-preliminary-approval-by-texas-house/2624812/

Alabama

58% pro-life. 51% of prolifers are women and 49% men.

Src: https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/alabama/views-about-abortion/

In Alabama not only are the majority of pro-life voters women, but also the legislator (Ginny Shaver) that wrote the bill severely restricting abortions (twice, her first bill was rejected two years earlier) and the governor (Kay Ivey) that signed the law that didn't have a vetoproof majority.

TL;DR - All the evidence points to this being an issue of rural relgious Republicans against abortion, not men against women. That goes against the narrative though, so go ahead and call me a misogynist for introducing facts.

[–]slutforfairybread 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]duhhhh 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Where?

What choices do raped men and boys have in the US?

pay your rapist child support for 18-21 years - probably more than 5 years income that you can't use to better your own life or raise kids you want
spend your adult life in and out of jail for contempt of court meaning you can't hold a meaningful high paying job
leave the US forever and never enter a country thst enforces international child support or extradition for contempt of court
end their lives on their own terms

The Texas thing sucks, but there are still morning after pills, abortion pills, surgical abortion before six weeks in Texas, surgical abortion after six weeks outside Texas, and Texas was the first place in the world to get Safe Haven laws so a woman can abandon their baby and responsibilities at most hospitals and fire stations. Raped men don't have any of those much better options.

So do you not understand or do you simply have no empathy towards half the human race?

[–]slutforfairybread 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

I've argued about you with this before. You're very active in MRA groups and tend to copy and paste standard responses to others.

All you're doing is using whataboutism to deflect from the topic of women's suffering, and you're trying to argue to me about who lacks empathy? Do you genuinely lack all self-awareness?

For argument's sake, though, I would argue that paying a small deductible fee from your taxable income is much less traumatic than a rape victim being subjected to one of the most painful and dangerous experiences of their life that not only does permanent damage to their body and causes them to need stitches and leaves them urinary incontinent for several months, but also causes a range of mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and long-term PTSD. I agree that the US laws are deplorable and I'm also in full support of financial abortion for both male rape victims and men in general. Not everyone who doesn't pertain to this subs views hates men. Calm down.

[–]duhhhh 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

All you're doing is using whataboutism to deflect from the topic of women's suffering, and you're trying to argue to me about who lacks empathy?

Or you are always downplaying male suffering and screaming women have it worse when they don't and I am calling you out on it...

I would argue that paying a small deductible fee from your taxable income is much less traumatic than a rape victim being subjected to one of the most painful and dangerous experiences of their life that not only does permanent damage to their body and causes them to need stitches and leaves them urinary incontinent for several months, but also causes a range of mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and long-term PTSD.

So you are saying :

1) Women have no agency and therefore can't get morning after pills, abortion pills, surgical abortion before six weeks in Texas, or surgical abortion after six weeks outside Texas if they are raped? All rights than male victims do not get.

2) You wouldn't mind giving a tiny percentage of your paycheck (often a quarter or more of take home pay) to your rapist for a couple of decades and that wouldn't trigger your anxiety, depression, and long-term PTSD from getting raped?

3) Male rape victims being threatened with jail if they don't pay their rapist child support isn't enough, you want to see them go to federal prison for tax fraud? (Child support is not deductible for the payer or taxable for the receiver.)

Not everyone who doesn't pertain to this subs views hates men. Calm down.

Your misinformation will get you upvotes on most subs. We call it out here.

[–]slutforfairybread 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Or you are always downplaying male suffering and screaming women have it worse when they don't and I am calling you out on it...

Please quote me on where I have downplayed male suffering and "screamed" that women have it worse than men. I feel like this is a sense of projection, since that's what you have been doing this entire time.

The rest of your argument is all word vomit that relies on whataboutism to insensitively compare women's trauma to men's. I'm not arguing that the circumstances of male rape victims being sued for child support isn't deplorable. At the end of the day, forcing a woman to carry her rapist's child is downright indefensible. Most women are completely unaware that they are pregnant within 6 weeks of gestational date, so don't pull that shit.

Your misinformation will get you upvotes on most subs. We call it out here.

What misinformation have I spread? That I believe the Texas abortion law is disgusting? You got me there, buddy. You're delusional.

[–]duhhhh 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Most women are completely unaware that they are pregnant within 6 weeks of gestational date, so don't pull that shit.

A raped woman doesn't know she had unprotected sex? Is that your argument?

What misinformation have I spread?

In these last few comments?

it's very evident that there is still systemic sexism, social oppression, and a lack of equality in the West

Things suck. But men don't have it better. Men often have it worse. Like when raped by the opposite sex to conceive, which was your example.

a state for forcing rape victims to give birth against their will

Women do have outs. Even in Texas. As I have explained twice.

most men are sociopaths and raging narcissists

Uhhh sexist misinformation much? No. If course not.

Pointing out that someone is evidently a sociopath, or someone enabling rape?

I don't believe you are a mind reading psychologist, so this is misinformation as well.

You are assuming I'm a feminist because I don't pertain to your misogyny, which is quite ironic I have to admit

There wasn't misogyny from the other poster. Your comments supporting pro-choice and the value of sex ed were great, but then you went right back into your misinformed arguments that anti-feminism is anti-woman and men have it better.

(big list of systemic sexism)

I think two out of that list are valid. The rest are twisted feminist talking points that aren't reality or aren't gendered issues.

That's just in the last few comments in this thread.

[–]Hodoss 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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You not giving a shit about it doesn’t make it disappear for everyone else.

I'd be interested to know how men's lives are affected on a daily basis by blue-haired rad fems and their espoused hatred online. But since you want to use the select few as an example of the entirety of feminism, you should have no issue with women disliking men's rights groups, which is two sides of the same coin.

There is a growing element of supremacism in feminism, demonstrating it is not by definition about equality. We don’t have this issue with proper egalitarianism.

Yet when asked for proof of this, you cannot provide me with a single piece of evidence. So again, your point is moot.

On a serious note, though. Feminism has been labelled as a supremacy movement ever since the suffragettes. This isn't anything new, and anti-feminists need to realise this. Men are genuinely uncomfortable with the idea of women having the same power as them, and so in a pathetic attempt to mitigate this issue, they spread fear-mongering hatred towards feminists to disempower them.

It’s already happening with blatant misandry being trendy.

Women have dealt with misogyny and gender-based discrimination their entire lives, and as soon as men get a whiff of this, they go to radical extremes to victimise themselves.

Egalitarianism doesn’t have this issue, it is literally about equality, nothing more, nothing less.

The top post on egalitarianism is anti-feminist. Sorry, but I'm going to continue advocating for women's rights before men's, since globally women are disenfranchised. I do advocate for men's issues in the West, though, but it's just sad how MRA's have spoiled that by weaponizing men's issues to dismiss women's.

[–]Hodoss 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd be interested to know how men's lives are affected on a daily basis by blue-haired rad fems and their espoused hatred online.

One example is men being accused of sexual assault and judged without due process on campuses. Surely you can imagine how living with this Sword of Damocles above your head would affect you?

you should have no issue with women disliking men's rights groups, which is two sides of the same coin.

Yes! That's what I was alluding to when I asked if you would trust "masculinism".

If you dislike MRAs, you can flip the coin and see the same reasons to dislike feminism, I guess the coin could be called "Gender Chauvinism".

Yet when asked for proof of this, you cannot provide me with a single piece of evidence.

You did not ask me for evidence, and I pointed at evidence right away without being asked: "women should rule the world" utopia, #killallmen or reduce their population to 10%, mistreat them as payback...

I would have obliged if you asked for proof, but you simply did not.

Instead you ignored/minimised, although this minimisation shows you are aware of what I was mentioning to some extent.

You dismiss my evidence as the fact of a fringe movement of "online blue-haired radfems". To which my answer is that its mere existence, fringe or not, shows a core ideological issue, aka gender partiality leading to gender chauvinism.

We do not have this issue with Egalitarianism. No radfems, no radhoms. It rather builds bridges than walls.

Feminism has been labelled as a supremacy movement ever since the suffragettes. This isn't anything new, and anti-feminists need to realise this.

While I'm certainly not against women's right to vote, this perception is not necessarily wrong just because it's old. There was a core ideological issue with feminism from the start, now being confirmed by the outspoken misandry.

When I was younger I called myself a feminist. Then from experience I realised women could behave just as bad as men, and feminism doesn't really provide them with a moral framework of respect and benevolence for the other gender. Only with demands for their own gender, and even an adversarial paranoia regarding the other gender.

With deeper philosophical thinking, I realised any gendered movement would have this as a core problem that would be expressed sooner or later.

That's why I now call myself an Egalitarian, I'm both anti-feminist and anti-masculinist.

Men are genuinely uncomfortable with the idea of women having the same power as them

See, you're illustrating my point, that is a misandrist statement. You seem to assume it's in the nature of men to want to dominate women.

Not to shame you personally, it's subconscious misandry floating around, just like subconscious misogyny. But even though you're not a "Blue-haired radfem", there is some of that misandry in you.

Historically, there was an egalitarian movement before the feminist movement, pushing for equal education of women, with the idea that once they have a proper education, they can politically, eloquently talk for themselves.

Men are fathers, and fathers have daughters. Most just want the best for their daughters.

But reciprocally, women are mothers, and mothers have sons. A mother is not going to be happy when her son is branded a rapist and excluded from education by some campus ragtag feminist jury.

Women have dealt with misogyny and gender-based discrimination their entire lives, and as soon as men get a whiff of this, they go to radical extremes to victimise themselves.

The so-called "Patriarchy" is sexist both towards men and women. For example, the "Patriarchy" expects men to sacrifice themselves in situation of dangers, such as war, or a sinking ship (women and children first).

So feminism, as a women's rights movement, understandably, mostly demands advantageous rights, not disadvantageous duties.

And we end up in this weird situation where the "Patriarchy" and Feminism unofficially agree on several points. For example, it's still considered outrageous for a man to hit a woman, unlike a woman hitting a man. I'd say I should be allowed to slap a woman whenever she displeases me, or on the contrary, she shouldn't be allowed to slap me even if I was a complete dick.

Also as a somewhat attractive man I have seen a lot in terms of women perving on me and groping me. Women are big pervs lol. But I can't complain.

"Patriarchy" would say "Don't be a fag. You're lucky."
Feminism would say, as you say, that I'm victimising myself.

And that is how men being harassed, or even raped, goes ignored. Feminism did not help that, on the contrary.

Sorry, but I'm going to continue advocating for women's rights before men's, since globally women are disenfranchised.

Well I'm sorry to hear that myself, but that is indeed Supremacism.

The lack of women's rights in, say, Saudi Arabia, doesn't justify treating men like shit in whatever western country.

As a man my rule of thumb has become, if she's a feminist, run away, or at least be very suspicious and run away at the first sign of misandry.

Women can be just as bad as men and in this day and age in western society feminist is becoming the equivalent of female chauvinist.

[–]Abstract_Knight 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]slutforfairybread 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

And... yeah is never limited to that, but the thing about feminism is actually most of its members searches supremacy indirectly. Casually the most "feminist" countries are still on the "fight against patriarchy" even when they have clearly won the fight.
On the practice, feminism was always searching supremacy, but obviously on the theory they started as something more near to a noble cause.

Sincerely, i think there's certain countries where their ideology is necesary, including my country on certain regions (that's how states are called on my country), but... it doesn't mean i disagree with the idea that feminism only searches supremacy.

Why i'm talking about laws?
Well, there's no laws that gives something to mens that doesn't gives to womens. But we can found laws that does the opossite on most of the countries (and feminism is searching for even more laws on their favor).

Is culture misogynistic?
On most of the countries culture is sexist in my opinion, so is both misoginy and misandry at the same time; changes are needed, but you can't just say that "womans are opressed"; what is happening is that the culture is always expecting you to do unnecessary exchanges, the woman risks less, so receives less, sometimes nothing even when there's a effort, not gonna lie.
The mens risks more, and receives more, but sincerely that "more" seems unfair the most of the time, even more than womens, but let's say this is debatible so... Womens and mens suffers unnecessarily (this also explains why transexual people has it really complicated).
Anyway, the reality is even a lot more complicated and is also fragile, so we shouldn't be searching on genders differences and fix the problems asap.
Most of the misoginy starts when woman is limited to certain things, so we should just assign housework and other tasks equally, this also fixes some of the misandry due to how tasks are divided (most of men directly depends on their works, and usually are not good doing housework, so they are always on burnout for paying their things; this is also what makes society to expect more work from men).
We also should teach men to open to share their emotions, and teach women to control more themselves. (most of the men usually doesn't share their emotions so they are more psycologycally unstable but emotionally stable, and on the womens happens exactly the opossite...; this is why most of the people thinks of womans as crazy and mens as agressive, again, sexism)

[–]slutforfairybread 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The issue with your argument is that you're claiming feminism is seeking for supremacy but you don't go on to validate this claim with any substantial evidence of such. Dismantling the patriarchy isn't a sign of 'supremacy' no more than seeking equality is. The patriarchy still exists, even in the West. It's systematic.

In regards to why feminism is important globally, are you aware that there are only ten countries in the world which offer full legal protections to women? (source)

No country has fully attained gender equality. Scandinavian countries like Iceland, Norway, Finland, and Sweden lead the world in their progress toward closing the gender gap. In these countries, there is relatively equitable distribution of available income, resources, and opportunities for men and women. The greatest gender gaps are identified primarily in the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia. source

I'll provide a comprehensive list of why feminism is still required globally and within the West:

Government and Legal Rights

Only 10 countries have a woman Head of State and 13 countries have a woman Head of Government. source
Women serve as Heads of State or Government in only 22 countries, and 119 countries have never had a female leader. source
Only 21% of government ministers were women, with only 14 countries having achieved 50% or more women in cabinets. With an annual increase of just 0.52%, gender parity in ministerial positions will not be achieved before the year 2077. source
At all levels, including at home and in the public arena, women are widely underrepresented as decision-makers. In legislatures around the world, women are outnumbered 4 to 1, yet women's political participation is crucial for achieving gender equality and genuine democracy. source
In several countries, women still lack rights to own land or to inherit property, obtain access to credit, earn an income, progress in their workplace, and some women are legally allowed to be discriminated against in the workplace. source
In several countries women are denied economic opportunities through national laws and through gender norms and culture which deny women income earning roles and responsibilities and expect them to remain in the home while men pursue economic opportunities and benefits outside of the home. source

Workforce and Education

Women are less likely to be hired for a position than their male counterparts, especially in male dominated careers such as STEM. source
Women face a large amount of discrimination in certain fields such as the military, STEM, and construction. Generally, if a woman is hired in a male-dominated field, she is often met with heavy scrutiny, is assumed to be hired through a quota, and her competence is criticised based on her gender as opposed to her individuality. source
Less than two thirds (62%) of women participate in the labour force compared to 93% of men as a result of the economic opportunity gap. Of those women who are employed, 58% are in the informal economy earning low wages and lacking social protection. source
Though women comprise more than 50% of the world's population, they only own 1% of the world's wealth as a result of underrepresentation of women in leadership roles or sex-based discrimination in the work-force. source
Women own only 1% of the world’s property and earn only 10% of the world's income, but they are the backbone of rural economies across the developing world. source
Around the world, women spend 2-10 times more hours on unpaid care work than men. When paid and unpaid work is combined, women also work longer hours than men. This unpaid care work helps sustain economies yet it is distributed unfairly, under-recognised and under-valued. The disproportionate burden of this work on women can damage their health and deny them opportunities for economic participation, education, political participation, leisure and time for self-care. source
Only 49% of countries have achieved gender parity in education, with millions of girls and women that are denied education in many countries. source
Nearly half a billion women and girls aged 15 years and over are illiterate and only 39% of rural girls attend secondary school. Increasing women’s access to education has been shown to increase women’s labour force participation rates; delay marriage and having children; and leaves women less vulnerable to violence. source
Approximately one quarter of girls in the developing world do not attend school. Typically, families with limited means who cannot afford costs such as school fees, uniforms, and supplies for all of their children will prioritize education for their sons. source
It's estimated that more than 2.5 billion women and girls live in countries with at least one discriminatory law on the books. These statues restrict women’s ability to make decisions about marriage, divorce, and child custody; and to make choices about getting a job or starting a business, among others. source

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"The issue with your argument is that you're claiming feminism is seeking for supremacy but you don't go on to validate this claim with any substantial evidence of such. Dismantling the patriarchy isn't a sign of 'supremacy' no more than seeking equality is. The patriarchy still exists, even in the West. It's systematic."

Again, there's not a pathriarchy, at least not globally, if it was, womans couldn't be able to have any jobs or have any kind of freedom, which they has already (not on all countries, but most of all), it's sexism, misoginy or culture, Pathriarchy is a system where only the oldest males has political power, we don't live on a pathriarchy but misoginy and inequalities still exists, this doesn't happen due to the pathriarchy, the world IS inequal itself, even without pathriarchy.

"In regards to why feminism is important globally, are you aware that there are only ten countries in the world which offer full legal protections to women?"

Again, states being useless from protecting their people and this doesn't happen with the womans only, so the point here shouldn't be feminism or woman issues, should be fixing the whole country on all kind of problems(obviously priorising giving equal opportunities to everyone).

"Government and Legal Rights

Only 10 countries have a woman Head of State and 13 countries have a woman Head of Government.

Women serve as Heads of State or Government in only 22 countries, and 119 countries have never had a female leader.

Only 21% of government ministers were women, with only 14 countries having achieved 50% or more women in cabinets. With an annual increase of just 0.52%, gender parity in ministerial positions will not be achieved before the year 2077.

At all levels, including at home and in the public arena, women are widely underrepresented as decision-makers. In legislatures around the world, women are outnumbered 4 to 1, yet women's political participation is crucial fori achieving gender equality and genuine democracy."

If you wanna fix this, you can't just take anyone and put them on a political charge; the main problem here is that most of the woman are not interested on politics (culture), and feminism is not the way to achieve this, because all the womans that gets this place through feminism will focus more on "the pathriarchy", or only think from a feminist persepective and not an open one. Actually Spain has a whole Ministry full of misandrists and radical feminists due to giving all to feminism, and no, i'm not saying a feminist will only focuse on blaming the males or something like that, but on the practice, we need neutral people, and most of the men doesn't really care about masculinism and feminism is more socially accepted than masculinism, so most of the men are already neutral about this. The worst that a country can do is take an ideology and give it a lot of political power, and feminism is not an exception for this (just to clarify, its okay if a political figure is feminist, the real problem starts when the political is mostly controlled by a single ideology, feminism in this case). Variety is necesary, and feminism can be really single minded, so the real solution is just giving equal opportunities to the woman, and making the culture more open minded to the idea of womans being political figures, but without just putting womans on politics; feminism focus a lot on women only and sometimes directly tries to just ban men from something for no reason, and we need to avoid this.

Also, if the amount of women and men on the government is proportional to the amount of women and men interested on politics, then its all fine, the government is as equal as it can be, and the problem is out of there and more a cultural one so it should be fixed out of the system, because the system is not discriminating woman, it just has less woman there; i mean, if a Government were full of womans and the system isn't giving more to womans than man, then its culture, and not the system; also, i think doesn't really matters who is over the system if it is actually functional and always giving opportunities to everyone; after all, a government full of woman only can manage it well for both men and women, so the opposite should be able to do that too, this is also why i think the countries where there's more womens than mens on politics, not necessarily means that men is misrepresentated or something like that. (until we talk about UK and Spain...)

"In several countries, women still lack rights to own land or to inherit property, obtain access to credit, earn an income, progress in their workplace, and some women are legally allowed to be discriminated against in the workplace.

In several countries women are denied economic opportunities through national laws and through gender norms and culture which deny women income earning roles and responsibilities and expect them to remain in the home while men pursue economic opportunities and benefits outside of the home."

Isn't those countries casually ones were different religions or some rights are denied? Anyway, those are something more specifical, and on this countries feminism and human rights are directly needed, so this counts as an exception to me... One exception were the fight that feminism does is fair and noble.

But on USA, seems the opossite... Women gets the custody by law, just as an example.

*I will answer the rest of the comment later...

[–]slutforfairybread 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Again, there's not a pathriarchy, at least not globally, if it was, womans couldn't be able to have any jobs or have any kind of freedom, which they has already (not on all countries, but most of all), it's sexism, misoginy or culture, Pathriarchy is a system where only the oldest males has political power, we don't live on a pathriarchy but misoginy and inequalities still exists, this doesn't happen due to the pathriarchy, the world IS inequal itself, even without pathriarchy.

You don't understand what a patriarchy is. In simple terms, a patriarchy is a system governed predominately by men, which I'm more than sure exists in every single country to date. It's a set of ideals and values that keep women out of positions of leadership, often enforced by subconscious social norms.

Most countries do not offer women full rights and legal protections. I've already illustrated this above in one of the first subtitles of inequalities that women face globally. Only ten countries in the entire world offer women full rights and legal protections. (source)

Again, states being useless from protecting their people and this doesn't happen with the womans only, so the point here shouldn't be feminism or woman issues, should be fixing the whole country on all kind of problems(obviously priorising giving equal opportunities to everyone).

Why shouldn't the focus be on feminism? Women are the ones lacking rights in developing countries, not men. Feminism advocates for equality, thus the equality we achieve through feminism also benefits men.

In regards to your paragraph responding to inequality of leadership roles, the reason why women are unequal to men in this sector globally is because women lack rights and the patriarchy enforces the idea that women are incapable of leading a country. This sexist notion is not even uncommonly perpetuated in the West, either. The US has never had a female president, and the first elected was Hillary Clinton in 2018. In short, the reason women are underrepresented in leadership roles isn't due to lack of interest, but more-so social norms and subconscious bias towards female candidates.

For example, take education. Men used to be considered better at reasoning and logic, and women unsuited for academia. Women would be told from a young age that they were not capable, so they don't try. Women aren't accepted or allowed into colleges, so it seems more conclusive that women can't. Since there's no women examples to point to, you might assume that women can't handle the same education levels. And if there were, their work might be stolen or ignored to discredit them. When you put it all together, it slowly becomes harder and harder to overcome because of how insidious the ideas have become. Make more sense?

so the real solution is just giving equal opportunities to the woman, and making the culture more open minded to the idea of womans being political figures, but without just putting womans on politics; feminism focus a lot on women only and sometimes directly tries to just ban men from something for no reason, and we need to avoid this.

Feminism already advocates for this solution. I'd love to see an example where a country has banned male participation in politics due to feminism, though. I've only seen the opposite where women have been historically banned from politics. I don't believe feminism has that much power.

Isn't those countries casually ones were different religions or some rights are denied? Anyway, those are something more specifical, and on this countries feminism and human rights are directly needed, so this counts as an exception to me... One exception were the fight that feminism does is fair and noble.

I wouldn't argue that it's only specific countries, because this is prevalent in almost every single developing nation. The UN's sustainable development programme is working to resolve these issues and grant women equality in areas they lack.

But on USA, seems the opossite... Women gets the custody by law, just as an example.

The US custodial law is much more complex than "she's the mother so she gets the child". There are a large number of reasons that determine who becomes the primary care-taker of the child, and one reason why a woman may be favoured over men is due to the patriarchy, so it's two sides of the same coin. If you're truly interested on why women tend to be granted custody, there's a full explanation here

[–]slutforfairybread 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Part Two

TempestDamage · 2021-09-15T23:01:12+00:00

Doesn't matter which wave. The 1st,2nd,3rd,4th or the upcoming ones. feminism is and always will be about female supremacy. It's in the name...

Poverty

80% of single parents are women and one third are living below the poverty line. source
Women are more likely than men to be living under the poverty line globally. source
Globally, women aged 25-34 are 25% more likely than men to face extreme poverty. Most of these women lack access to social protection and public services that would provide them with sustainable routes out of poverty. source
Women and girls are disproportionately affected by a lack of access to water, sanitation and hygiene, which results in a vulnerability to abuse and affects their education. source

Gender Disparity in Healthcare

Women are legally allowed to be refused contraception and sterilisation due to religious or marital reasonings. source
An estimated 190 million women worldwide lack safe, easy, and affordable access to contraception, which is critical for the importance of women's reproductive rights and the prevention of maternal death. source
Women are more likely to be dismissed for their medical concerns, go untreated and undiagnosed, and be given less dosage or incorrect medication for their pain. source
Women have historically been excluded from medical trials due to discriminatory sexism against women and their health, which greatly affects how women are treated in the medical field. source one, source two and source three
Due to gender bias in medical studies, this also affects women and mental health diagnosis for autism and ADHD, as mental disorders affect girls and women differently than boys and men. Because studies have primarily focused on the male gender, the female gender goes heavily undiagnosed. source one and source two.
Globally, women and girls have less access to education and healthcare, too often lack economic autonomy and are under-represented in decision-making at all levels. source
HIV/AIDS is becoming an increasingly impactful issue for women globally due to women having fewer opportunities for health education, unequal power in sexual partnership, or as a result of gender-based violence. source
Globally women and young girls are affected by maternal health. In many countries, women have limited access to prenatal and infant care, and are more likely to experience complications during pregnancy and childbirth. This is a critical concern in countries where girls marry and have children before they are ready; often well before the age of 18. source
In many countries girls and women do not have access to menstrual hygiene products and toilets, increasing their vulnerability to developing infections. Girls are statistically less likely than boys to have access to information and resources in regards to their sexual and reproductive health. source

Sexual Violence

An estimated 1 in 5 women experience sexual and/or physical violence every year globally. source
Over 90% of adult rape victims are female and every 1 in 6 women are likely to be raped within their lifetime. [source](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
In the US, about 43.6% of women have experienced some form of sexual violence within their lifetime. source
The CSEW estimates that 20% of women have experienced some form of sexual assault since the age of 16 within the UK, equivalent to an estimate of 3.4 million female victims. source
An estimated 1 in 2 (or 53%) women are sexually harassed in their lifetime. source
An estimated 97% of women between the ages of 18-24 in the UK have experienced sexual harassment. source
Female victims continue to be the primary targets of human trafficking, especially for sexual exploitation. source
Femicide is a prevalent issue across the globe with women and girls making up a disproportionate amount of gender-based killings. source
Women and girls make up the disproportionate victims of 'honour killings' globally, with the UN estimating about 5,000 females are killed every year as a result. source
Globally, girls make up the disproportionate victims of infanticide and filicide. source
Child marriage, child brides, forced or arranged marriage dispropartianetly affects young girls and women. source one and source two

Domestic and Intimate Partner Violence

Women are significantly more likely to die at the hands of someone they know. source
An estimated 86% of domestic violence victims are women. source
Women make up 82% of victims of domestic (or intimate partner) homicides. source
72% of all murder-suicides involve an intimate partner; 94% of the victims of these murder-suicides are female. source

Natural Disasters, Conflict, and Refuge

Estimates suggest that 80% of people displaced by conflict and disasters are women and children. In conflict zones, refugee camps, and following natural disasters, female and male victims share similar experiences, however, women and girls are disproportionately affected. source
Women and girls are exposed to particular vulnerabilities and dangers, experience often unique and urgent health-related needs, and face unique burdens and opportunities, largely because of their gender and existing gender inequalities. source
Women and girls are more vulnerable to sexual violence, sexual harassment, early marriage, and sexual exploitation in emergency settings, including shelters and refugee camps. Women and girls in emergencies are often faced with an increase in burden of care tasks, and pregnant and breastfeeding women are unable to access the healthcare and support they need, putting them and their babies in danger. source

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]slutforfairybread 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Globally feminism is still required for fighting against most of this issues, but at the same time, the reality use to be more near to sexism than misoginy.

Misogyny is just sexism towards women.

on the practice is proven that feminism always searches supremacy at the end, after all, all the countries were feminism were more accepted are casually the ones that least cares about mens issues.

I've asked several times how feminism seeks supremacy, and you're yet to validate that claim. I think you're too involved in anti-feminist propaganda.

In other words... feminism is needed where there's no feminism actually, and an innecessary pain on the ass where there's not.

Feminism is needed everywhere. Just because women in the West have it better than women in developing nations, that does not mean there aren't men fighting to regress to an oppressive society where women lack rights. You don't think there's manifesto advocating for the infringement of women's rights?

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

"Misogyny is just sexism towards women."
Yes, ik, but feminism sometimes acts like only misogyny exists only and its so fucking disgusting.

"I've asked several times how feminism seeks supremacy, and you're yet to validate that claim."
"I think you're too involved in anti-feminist propaganda."
- Practically any country that has feminism as a guide on the government is still "fighting against the pathriarchy", Spain and UK being the most relevant cases, this is why i say the "on the practice searches supremacy". . .
Yes, probably i do.

"Feminism is needed everywhere.""Just because women in the West have it better than women in developing nations, that does not mean there aren't men fighting to regress to an oppressive society where women lack rights.""You don't think there's manifesto advocating for the infringement of women's rights?"

On the theory, is needed everywhere, i can agree with that. (but its until is proven that their goals are the theorized ones that i can support feminism, if not, then no.)
Yes, there's, but are not men only, most of them are fundamentalist religious groups.
Yes, there is... everytime i listen about this cases the first thing that comes to my mind is human rights doesn't exists there, or the country is just so fucked up that this rights can be easily evaded; so it ends there, its a fight for basic human rights, is a fight where everyone should participate; not on name of feminism ideals, but on name of the human dignity.

[–]slutforfairybread 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, ik, but feminism sometimes acts like only misogyny exists only and its so fucking disgusting.

I believe those sort of feminists are the same as liberals who believe racism against white people doesn't exist because it isn't systematic. Regardless, I agree that they're wrong.

Practically any country that has feminism as a guide on the government is still "fighting against the pathriarchy", Spain and UK being the most relevant cases, this is why i say the "on the practice searches supremacy". . .

But I replied stating that I don't agree with this..

Claiming that feminism is seeking supremacy for working to dismantle the patriarchy is similar to claiming that feminism is seeking supremacy for working to achieve equality. The patriarchy is a system that is fundamentally sexist.

In regards to your last paragraph, I think you just have a poor understanding of what feminism is, but I can see that you're genuine in your arguments and you believe in the fight for equality.. just that there are some areas where we may have to agree to disagree.

In conclusion, I will end this here and I thank you for being civil within this discussion and exchanging your viewpoints with me.

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[–]What_sHAPPENING0 points 4 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

No, it's about the return of our lord and savior Jesus Christ. What better way to bring him back then by making men hate feminists so much that we decide to start stoning them again? Hahaha

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminism is not about equality. It's about female supremacy.

Comments

Part Two

The Bible

Title	Feminism is not about equality. It's about female supremacy.
Author	TempestDamage
Upvotes	266
Comments	140
Date	September 15, 2021 11:01 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/pp14p4/feminism_is_not_about_equality_its_about_female/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/feminism-is-not-about-equality-its-about-female.1070214 https://theredarchive.com/post/1070214