Poster from earlier and one pitfall I'm having is in relation to feminists - they confirm my bias

_slinki · 2021-09-17T05:24:30+00:00

I'm gonna post multiple comments by the way because I typed way too much for this to load all in one commnt and you probably won't care to read much of it, but here we go

In my opinion, I believe the "Trad Wives" are also "red pilled" in their beliefs.

First, I'd like to say that outside of extremist groups, all communities have extremists. For example, I can see where women saying "kill all men" is off-putting and ridiculous--I don't support people who say things like this. The majority of feminists don't fight for supremacy though, they fight to live in a society where all people have the same opportunities as one another without facing discrimination for their sex, gender, race, ethnicity, abilities, etc. A lot of feminists can come off somewhat intense, so I'd like to try giving my thoughts on feminism. You can skip this comment if you don't wish to hear much about this, though I think it might be good for you if you want somebody to try changing your views on feminism.

I'd like to start by defining feminism as the belief and advocacy for all people to be politically, economically, and socially equal regardless of their sex, gender, or gender identity. Though I've seen a lot of feminist blogs touch on matters relating to race and other causes, the simplest way to learn about feminism is to boil it down to that. Easy enough. I'm about to delve into the history of feminism a bit, so if you'd rather hear my thoughts on the article you can skip ahead a bit.

The first wave of feminism ever to occur happened in the late 1800s and focused on gaining voting rights and equal access to education and employment. That wave of feminism is where we gained the 19th amendment, which allows anyone to vote unrestricted by their sexual identity.

The second wave occurred in the 1960s and focused on equality, sexual and financial freedom, and anti-discrimination. Some of what was fought for here was the Equal Pay Act of 1963, which prohibits discrimination on account of sex in wages (so an employer can't pay a woman half of what a man makes for working the same job) and Roe v. Wade in 1973, in which the Supreme Court declared that the Constitution protects a woman's right to get an abortion without excessive government restrictions. Without this right, many women were getting injured or died trying to give themselves "coat-hanger" abortions, which you could imagine is unpleasant. If it's hard to see why some of these things matter, you could try flipping the gender roles in these situations or trying to see it from womens' perspectives.

The third wave in 1990 placed more emphasis on the importance of intersectionality, redefining gender roles, and self-determination for women. Basically, women shouldn't feel like they need to behave passively or need to live their lives supporting a man just because they're women. This doesn't mean that women can't choose traditional gender roles, but rather that they don't need to feel forced to choose traditional gender roles. Before then, it was considered taboo for a woman to not marry a man and housekeep for him. Again, imagine if the roles here were reversed and society expected men to stay at home and clean for their wives in support of their wives' dreams and aspirations. That's not what feminists fight for though--true feminists fight so that nobody has to live that way.

The current wave of feminism is charged by social media and features more intersectionality than ever before, which is why you'll see many feminists talk about other issues not necessarily pertaining to feminism--like racism, the lgbtq community, and even men's mental health. In fact, I've seen multiple feminist posters that I follow mention how society creates toxic masculinity by expecting men not to cry or expecting men not to feel "weak" emotions. From this wave of feminism I've seen many things taught, like how sexism is weaved into our culture even from a young age. For example, while toys for young girls are often baby dolls and houses, toys for young boys are often legos and fake tools. This may seem somewhat benign, but the difference is that girls toys often present home economics to girls, whereas boys toys often present careers like construction. This reinforces very subtley that women are supposed to take care of the house while men are supposrd to create and build society. The #MeToo movement focusing on rape culture is built on women sharing their experiences with sexual harrassment and assault. The majority of women have or will have experienced men talking about them in a way that objectifies them--aka sees their worth in terms of how "fuckable" or "wife-able" they are. Statistics show that about 1/5 of women have been sexually assaulted or have experienced an attempted sexual assault. Sexual assault can be defined as groping, ass slapping, rape, coercion, drugging into sex, etc.. Now, it's true that this isn't just a thing that happens to women. Sexual assault happens to men, obviously. However, 91% of sexual assault victims are female, and nearly 99% of perpetrators of sexual assault are males. Even when you look at men who are sexually assaulted, most of the perpetrators against men are also men. And sexual assault doesn't just occur by strangers, but from friends and family. Another cause feminists now fight for is access to contraception and paid maternity and paternity leave. Contraception is mostly targeted towards women, and men currently don't have many options to use besides condoms. Furthermore, besides condoms, hormonal birth control and other contraception options can be hard for people to obtain--causing unwanted pregnancies. Mothers and fathers in America aren't always required to be given paid leave to take care of their children after birth, causing many problems economically within a family. Feminists now fight to change these problems as well. Typically women-dominated professions like teaching and nursing get paid way less money than typically men-dominated professions like engineering and other STEM jobs, which is why some people will mention that there is a persisting gender wage gap even today.

Not only does the system that women fight against affect women, but it also negatively affects men in some respects too because of misogyny. For example, the draft before supported men going to war and "bravely" dying for their countries, while women were to stay at home out of battle. This isn't some matriarchal issue enforced by women who hate men--it was perpetuated by the idea that women are weak and unfit to fight. Since women were seen as weak and not fit to be strong, men were forced to be strong in their place and die. It was, and still is, considered honorable of men to die fighting valiantly for their countries. Another example is that women tend to win more custody cases than men. This circles back to the idea that women are the ones who are supposed to take care of children. Therefore, courts tend to rule in favor of women because of restrictive gender roles pushed onto women. Why is it seen as normal to "save the women and children" first? Because they're seen as unable to save themselves, and women are seen as needing to be around so that they can raise the children into more strong men or more housekeeping women. Why is it seen as taboo for a man to hit a woman back? Because women are seen as weak and unable to handle a man's strength. There are likely many other examples that I'm not thinking of right now. A lot of concepts and ideas that benefit women more than men are perpetuated by misogyny--perpetuated by "women are too weak"-- that's often upheld by men themselves. And do you see the men in charge of government and courts doing much to change these double standards either? No, you do not. So, not only does a patriarchy negatively affect women, but it hurts men too. And it turns both genders against each other.

LadylikeElectricland · 2021-09-17T10:38:40+00:00

there's a giant matriarchy that controls our culture and the way people are supposed to think.

CitrusyDeodorant · 2021-09-17T12:42:30+00:00

I'm a little confused. This entire article is about RPW/Tradwives, which is a harmful, shallow mindset, just like redpill itself. How are "feminists" to blame here? Wanting to be a SAHM is fine. Assigning random values to yourself based on your... N-count or whatever is not very constructive.

Sex is the main thing that men need from women. Therefore, it’s the prime value that a woman has. Each time she gives this value to a man, her value is diminished.

Yeah this is straight up insulting and anyone who has basic human decency can see that.

Do the feminists realize that articles like this do nothing more than confirm our biases?

Articles like... what? Articles that dare imply that women have more value than "health, age and femininity"? That "education, career or workplace does not influence a woman’s SMV. Think about it, they don’t enhance the sexual satisfaction of her male partner."? The RPW movement basically says women are nothing more than pretty things to put your dick in and to gestate children, of course people are going to have issues with that.

I just think the red pillers have good points.

So uh... why exactly are you calling yourself an ex-red piller if you still agree with them?

glassjaw95 · 2021-09-17T06:01:45+00:00

I had an issue with radical feminism pushing me back into rp for a while, I recommend avoiding politics like the plague. The internet really has this tendency of promoting the hottest takes, so most of what you will see of feminism on the internet is stuff like jezebel articles written by people flying off the handle because a videogame character has big tits and other dumb shit like that. If you avoid the politics and especially politics on the internet, you will occasionally bump into reasonable conversations in real life with people who are feminists with much more stable views of the world around them. These people are far more common than you think, as usual the extremists are just loud mouths who make up a minority.

RedPillDetox · 2021-09-17T08:29:33+00:00

TRP is first and foremost aimed at dating advice. People go to TRP to learn to get laid. Politics are irrelevant, and if TRP didn't have an agenda it would not be concerned with politics. The fact that TRP cares about politics proves it's a BS movement.

azucarleta · 2021-09-17T14:59:07+00:00

One problem I see is your understanding of feminism has limited you to see feminists as a monolith. This is a tremendous intellectual mistake, before we even get into whether this point of view is "fair" (it's not).

To begin with, maybe dive into the pervasive critique of "white feminism" and learn for yourself how it contrasts with the feminism of those who critique so-called white feminism. Learn about the history of "radical feminism" and how it contrasts with, say, "third-wave feminism."

Then go waaaaay back and understand what this "wave" thing means, so get a brief history lesson on First Wave Feminism (you probably will have already leaned a little in your study of white feminism). Study briefly what Second Wave Feminism is, and how it's different from First and Third wave (you will have already gotten an intro when you studied radical feminism).

Do a brief study of Take Back the Night and anti-sexual violence focussed feminism. Study domestic violence and the history of women's emergency shelters, and the particular kind of feminism that concerns itself with that.

Then I would say finish it off with reading some works from some feminists like you, men. Maybe get a good handle on what people mean by "toxic masculinity," and why feminism is a solution for men who want to stop toxic masculinity in themselves and be free of its horrible confines.

GarudOne · 2021-09-17T12:28:35+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Poster from earlier and one pitfall I'm having is in relation to feminists - they confirm my bias
Author	JUMPsuperstar
Upvotes	0
Comments	53
Date	September 17, 2021 3:29 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/ppsf0m/poster_from_earlier_and_one_pitfall_im_having_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/poster-from-earlier-and-one-pitfall-im-having-is.1076011 https://theredarchive.com/post/1076011

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