~ archived since 2018 ~

Zoom Group Support experiment

talkstomuch2020 · 2021-11-01T14:00:26+00:00

I am considering hosting a zoom group support group for divorced at 1200 lunch hour. We will work from a hybrid model of the 12 steps offered by AA. I am...

talkstomuch2020

November 1, 2021

7 upvotes

/r/Divorce_Men

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Zoom Group Support experiment
Author	talkstomuch2020
Upvotes	7
Comments	28
Date	November 1, 2021 2:00 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/qkem35/zoom_group_support_experiment/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/zoom-group-support-experiment.1080620 https://theredarchive.com/post/1080620

Comments

[–]FarSatisfaction8117 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]InWeGoNow 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NohoTwoPointOh 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cyber1king 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

AA attendance isn't all bad per se, but it has a higher relapse rate than those who simply quit on their own. It does not require the attendee to take responsibility, in fact, it simply defers responsibility to a mythical disease that can only be cured by divine intervention.

It is a religion, and a cultish one at that. Grandpa took a couple of nips 50 years ago while at lunch everyday and - BAM - you are an Adult Grandchild of an Alcoholic requiring a "12 step program" to live. A program that says you are broken, can't be fixed, and the rest of your life hangs by the thread of continued participation.

But to the uneducated, and it's membership, it's given as an excuse for compulsive behavior and miraculous instantaneous changes. AA is completely out of step with modern science and clings to the mythical disease that can only be cured by divine intervention.

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gwerd1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

AA is a pyramid scheme - all it's founders and their heirs became very wealthy. It's umbrella contains a massive industrial complex of treatment and therapy organizations operating under other names such as Hazeldine. The "Club" network is huge and profitable because the meetings pay rent, they pass the hat at every meeting and the money is split between the General Services Office and the landlord "club".
AA is a money making machine - it owns and publishes all it's literature for profit, Conventions make millions and AA ruthlessly pursues copyright and trademark intrusions. They had a massive lawsuit in Mexico that won millions from a grassroots organization that tried to start up a 12 Step program without sanction from the GSO.

My personal issue with the 12 step program is the *disease* concept that misuses the medical terminology for a compulsive behavior. If a 12 step program worked on a disease, why couldn't we cure cancer by having patients attend meetings?

A number of scientific methods exist that are based on personal responsibility and rational beliefs - SMART, SOS, Rational Recovery, Lifering, Moderation Management . . . but the religion of AA says their way is the only way so when treatment is based on a 12 step focus, the odds are less than other forms of treatment including just plain old stopping.

AA/NA has been legally determined to be a religion, the Courts cannot require you to attend AA/NA "meetings" anymore than the court could require you to attend a Catholic mass. Ironically, this case law comes from inmates who have sued because AA was a requirement in jail.

[–]gwerd1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Where?

All of these courts have ruled that Alcoholics Anonymous is a religion or engages in religious activities:
the Federal 7th Circuit Court in Wisconsin, 1984.
the Federal District Court for Southern New York, 1994.
the New York Court of Appeals, 1996.
the New York State Supreme Court, 1996.
the U.S. Supreme Court, 1997.
the Tennessee State Supreme Court.
the Federal 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, 1996.
the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit.
the U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh District, 1996.
the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago, 1996.
the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, September 7, 2007.
In the last case before the Federal Appeals Court in Hawaii, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, September 7, 2007, the Inouye v. Kemna case, ruled that any "coercing authority" can be held individually, civilly liable for the 1st Amendment constitutional rights violation that they perpetrate on people unwillingly and involuntarily forced to go to 12-Step programs. Meaning: you can sue a judge, a prison warden, a parole officer, a "counselor", or anyone else in a position of authority who forces you to go to A.A. meetings.

Here's a reference: https://web.archive.org/web/20170606193817/http://www.smartrecovery.org/courts/court-mandated-attendance.htm

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]InWeGoNow 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]25_years 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShaolinSoccerStar 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]dday_throwaway3 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]talkstomuch2020[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tcon1201 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]billy12321232 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link