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During the Vietnam war, 61% of US soldiers killed were UNDER the age of 21. Not even college senior age

Vista_Seagrape

November 11, 2021
121 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
https://www.uswings.com/about-us-wings/vietnam-war-facts/
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Post Information
Title During the Vietnam war, 61% of US soldiers killed were UNDER the age of 21. Not even college senior age
Author

Vista_Seagrape

Upvotes 121
Comments 13
Date November 11, 2021 7:36 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/qrt3zq/during_the_vietnam_war_61_of_us_soldiers_killed/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/during-the-vietnam-war-61-of-us-soldiers-killed.1084625
https://theredarchive.com/post/1084625
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Comments

[–]Vista_Seagrape[S] 31 points32 points33 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Male disposability is an issue neglected in modern day discussion of historical gender equality, all over the world. There are people who are not alive today who would be had they not been drafted.

[–]Juhnthedevil 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it can be interesting in this case to talk about the use of mentally disabled soldiers :p

[–]peanutbutterjams 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I highly suggest Micheal Herr's Dispatches for a feel of what those young men experienced before they died.

War is gendered violence. We always talk about soldiers dying and gender is discussed it's always "men and women" but this is another issue where we ignore how that these were specifically men, and boys.

The tradition of men being forced to do the most dangerous work predates civilization itself but we still can't address it directly?

We've spent 60 years vigorously examining society's relationship with women but we still can't talk about society's (abusive) relationship with men?

That's not natural. It's non-Newtonian movement. Society's relationship with men is something that would have been examined if it weren't for the corrosive effects of power and fear.

What we talk about in this sub is a natural extension of our society's recent examinations of gender and the lack of its presence is proof of how warped the current narrative is - as well as the ideology behind it.

[–]DioOverLove 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

As ironic as it is I'm a young man right now who feels very marginalized and low on life and because of that I've been thinking about doing military service to hopefully elevate my station in life. The military is probably the perfect place to even stage this type of propaganda or stigma because it's always been staged just a perfect place for men like me

A young man who comes from the dredges or lower ends of society can use the military to become great in theory. If you make it through all the training and all the other things you will be set for life and you will have money and insurance.

And most importantly you will probably have the respect of your peers and the people around you for serving

That's not the reason everybody goes of course and it sounds shallow but that's a part of the reason why I'm going accordingly will try to go to the military

But I am also very aware of the fact that as a young man I am treated as disposable and I am putting myself right into an institution that treats me as such but I guess that's the horrible part about it?

I figure what I will feel if I somehow do die at such a young age. They pump your head up and tell you that you're fighting for something good or glorious or fighting for your country but once that bullet flies through your head will your countrymen really respect you

[–]peanutbutterjams 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As ironic as it is I'm a young man right now who feels very marginalized and low on life

Given how society talks about and treats men, this isn't ironic and a perfectly natural reaction. I want you to know that your feelings are valid and justified.

And feel free to drop by /r/mensupportmen to speak to other men who better understand what you're feeling.


With regards to the military, can I ask in what country you live?

Please don't assume that you will have people's respect for serving in the military. Watch The Flags of Our Fathers to get an idea how soldiers are used and treated after their service. It's on Netflix if you have it.

Yes, once you enter the military you are agreeing to kill who the state has decided needs killing. Are you comfortable handing over that decision to someone else?

It's undeniable that the military instills (a certain kind of) discipline. But is that discipline worth risking your life or being forced to kill? And can it not also be gained through a civil corps or other organizations that require discipline in order to help people, not kill them?

Food for thought.

[–]DioOverLove 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm an African American from the United States

I have tons of veterans in my family and I'm familiar with military history and the culture around it but I have always been a staunch believer in nonviolence

My grandfather supports the idea because of the benefits and stuff but in truth he hates the idea of killing someone as his son was murdered.

A lot of people in the family have been murdered and it does way on my mind how hypocritical it would be of me to throw all those teachings away and then to support in institution that literally is made to kill

Sometimes I think about doing this as a type of responsibility so other people don't have to do it and honoring people before me.

So many young men across history had to fight in wars whether they liked it or not and I've always been interested in that perspective but it will be comfortable of me to be able to read or write about war and not experience it

I do respect veterans and it's not because of the killing part but because of the responsibility they had to place on themselves

I want to honor all the black soldiers who came before me and fought for the country who sometimes did not fight for them back.

I'm still very mixed about this and I'm not sure what to do

[–]peanutbutterjams 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I hope you make the decision that's best for you and others.

I do think you have a right to be proud of how much thought you're putting in this decision.

[–]camelry42 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Enlisting is a common way in the US (really in many countries with volunteer militaries, through much of history) for young men to escape whatever city they’re in when they wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford to move.

If you enlist, expect to be used, regardless of branch or job. Expect it to be difficult, and train like you’re getting ready for war, because you are. It’s deadly serious business. I wouldn’t call it “set for life” unless you ride out a whole twenty-year (or longer) career, but there are some benefits I’m sure any recruiting website will eagerly list for you.

As for whether the institution treats you terribly… experience varies wildly. It’s a “power” job, where some are given legal authority over others. As such, it attracts narcissists and others who treat people poorly, there doesn’t seem to be a corner where I haven’t run into at least one, but some jobs attract more narcissists than others. The Military Police corps seems to attract the most narcissists, while I’ve had to cope with significantly fewer raging narcissists in my current job. And then there are the dangers inherent in military service.

I think it’s overall been a positive experience for myself, but that’s with the rose-colored glasses of promotion and current-job satisfaction. My old job had me miserable at several points (suffering under some narcissist or other), especially before I put stripes on.

The military is the way I left a certain poverty-stricken Denver suburb behind and despite the war and the shit, it’s turned out okay for me so far. For some of my friends, it did not turn out okay and they are dealing with PTSD and wrestling the VA and all that. And of course, too many people die: training accidents, regular-life accidents (car crashes etc), suicide, war. There’s a lot done to prevent many of these deaths, and it’s impossible to count how many were saved, but people are still dying and you’ll see chilling Final Roll Calls.

This has already run long. Look, if you want to know the goods and the bads, send me a DM. There are a lot of goods, and there are a lot of bads, but I’d do it again so perhaps my perspective is skewed.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just want to say I love this comment and the way it's written.

[–]peanutbutterjams 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! I'm trying to screw up the courage to write professionally so comments like this really help me out.

[–]Carkudo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Jesus fucking Christ. This is why I have no respect for career military men. Useless assholes preening in their uniforms and practicing dat steely gaze for photos while sending children to get mutilated and die.

[+][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Raphe9000left-wing male advocate 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know, you're the one who seems all too happy with violence over pacifism. War is an avoidable tragedy to each side that experiences it, and being happy that people who were forced to fight died doesn't seem very leftwing at all unless you follow some extremely twisted definition of what is left and what is right.

And if the races of the people who died justifies their killing at all to you, you might as well be the epitome of right wing.

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