Is it the "right" thing to do to ask a Father's permission to date his daughter? How about for marriage?

YallNeedMises · 2022-05-11T18:14:45+00:00

We've lost or thrown away so much hard-won wisdom on these matters. In RP terms, all women are alpha-widowed by default by their fathers, even by 'beta' fathers, even by fathers who were never in their lives at all, for the simple fact that no other man is more immediately & personally relevant to a woman as her model of masculinity.

In terms of evolutionary psychology, she is the living proof of the success of his sexual strategy, so he defines the shape of the hole in her life against which all other men will be evaluated in her quest to fill it, and where no one fits the mold better than the one who made it, naturally she is bound to him as her first alpha. This is the level of the playing field, and it's not a bad thing; quite the contrary, this is why traditionally the most prized women for wives belonged to good & strong fathers and had good relationships with their fathers, because your wife's father can make or break your marriage even from beyond the grave. Thus, seeking a father's 'blessing' to marry his daughter isn't just an archaic way of saying you're asking his permission, but rather you're literally beseeching him to bless your marriage, to use his nigh-godlike power over her to benefit you, your house, & your life, to redirect her affection for & devotion to him to you by saying "Serve me faithfully, daughter, by faithfully serving thy husband".

Tribally speaking, you're seeking an alliance with him via the transaction of marriage, the amicable exchange of ownership (or possession, rather, for the reasons outlined above) of his daughter, because his enmity can destroy you without you ever seeing it coming. If you don't respect him on this level because he is a weak or contemptible man or she has no such affection & devotion for him, do as you will and take possession of his daughter as you see fit, but understand the risks you're taking in doing so --and the possibility that she may not be as good a deal as she seems.

Regarding your remark about no one else having any place to dictate over your relationship, would you say the same of your daughter? Would you not feel a perfectly natural impulse to make hell for any man who held such an attitude about this girl you've poured so much of yourself into, years of struggle and your resources & affection? You may be tempted to cuck in your answer, to say that by her marriage age you've done your part and that all you can do is hope that she makes good choices, but this is what the wicked modern age seeks, to convince good men to abnegate their primary power & purpose, to make 'strays' out of women to be used & discarded without fear of justice.

Hold the line. Rekindle the masculine protective fire, restore the cartel of good men, of strong fathers against the lurking wolves. Restore Patriarchy.

Deep_Strength · 2022-05-11T20:34:47+00:00

It seems to be that many traditional communities would advocate for this as some sort of biblical norm.

I never asked my wife's father for permission to date her. I honestly didn't even ask permission to marry her. I simply just told him that I was going to ask his daughter to marry me. For the record by the way, him and I have a pretty solid relationship.

It seems odd to me to ask for permission for either because no one else has any place in dictating to you your relationship and marriage choices especially considering you have your stuff together as a man. It is one thing if you are a loser and have nothing going for you, but why would any RP Christian man ask a beta father for permission to date/marry his daughter? Like what are you going to do if he says no? Are you just going to be like "oh yea you're right?"

Whenever I bring this up with friends (not RP friends) they say that it is just tradition and the respectful thing to do. But as an honest person if you're asking the question you better be okay with honoring the answer if it is not what you want right? But then aren't you letting someone else interfere with your relationship decisions?

There's several points to consider.

In the Bible it's an informal rule. At Creation, God creates Eve and then gives her to Adam. Additionally, in the rest of Genesis and the Pentateuch pretty much all of the Patriarchs whose stories are discussed went and asked for permission from the father/family of the woman they were going to marry. Abraham/Isaac, Isaac/Jacob, Moses, etc.
To go with the above point, the passing of headship/authority from the father to the husband is the natural assumption in this case. Much like the headship authority of Christ:Church::husbands:wives. Matthew 28 - God gives all authority to Jesus who then uses the authority to commission the Church to spread the gospel and make disciples.
The Law of Moses gives a father veto rights over a marriage if he thinks it's not suitable. Several instances in Deut and Numbers if a man seduces a woman/virgin the dad can veto it if he thinks it's bad otherwise normally they would get married.
Getting the father's permission ensures good unity in making the family unit and building a stronger and wider family network especially for support. That's one of the things that is missing now in the modern age where both the husband and the wife would usually have a lot stronger support from their families in keeping the marriage together if there was trouble.
Ideally, the father of the daughter would help mentor the man to help him be a strong, masculine leader and possibly also warn him of some tendencies of his daughter if she's prone to some sorts of sin.
It generally does matter in Christian communities from a wisdom standpoint. If you don't, it's easy to get on their family and friend's bad side even if it's not wrong not to. The same is true of 'dating' in the modern world. If you're dating a Christian woman there's no rule in the Bible or anything that you must pay for dates, but if you don't it's likely the woman will get turned off and not want to do anymore dates with you. Secular women might not mind going dutch, but you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't.

In general, even though it's not a hard and fast rule or anything you would be wise to do it because of all of the points above.

PRW63 · 2022-05-11T19:13:27+00:00

One answer. This book... But the blog post makes a pretty good point all by itself.
https://www.thomasumstattd.com/2014/08/courtship-fundamentally-flawed/

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-05-11T17:08:10+00:00

In Numbers chapter 30, a man is given the right to veto any promises either his wife makes or his daughter makes who is still under his roof.

I forget where, but there's also a passage that talks about if a man seduces a young women into fornication he should try to make amends with her father and offer to pay the dowry and marry her, but the father had the right to veto the proposal. Presumably if he thought the man was unsuitable.

Typically a young women stayed under her father's roof until she was married and then left to join her new husband's house.

You didn't mention it, but in a typical wedding where the father of the bride walks her down the aisle is a carryover from a similar thing to represent how she is passing from her father's authority to her husband's.

Partly it's probably just a carryover from arranged marriages. For example in the Bible Samson asked his parents to arrange a marriage with the father of a Philistine woman he met.

I think a lot of guys underestimate how much of an affect a young woman's relationship with her father has. And growing up with parents in a healthy relationship structure where her father leads and her mother submits. Whatever that relationship was, that's usually the baseline a women is going to start with for her own marriage and relationships.

Parents know if a man asks and they say no, there's a pretty high chance their daughter is just going to marry the guy anyway and their relationship with their daughter will then suffer. So it would have to be pretty bad to get a no.

I think asking can help get your relationship with your potential father-in-law and mother-in-law off to a good start. They could be helpful to you if your wife gets rebellious as people would could help influence her.

farendsofcontrast · 2022-05-12T08:33:12+00:00

I’d say do it just because not many do it nowadays. It’s a chad move.

bblatnick3238 · 2022-05-17T16:40:25+00:00

If the father is a Christian, he has biblical authority over his daughter as granted by God. He is the alpha of his household, therefore you should absolutely ask him.

Think of a Christian marriage. The father walks his daughter down the aisle to the alter to be married by the groom. This represents the transfer of authority, granted by God, over her to her groom.

Sexstorythrwawy · 2022-05-11T16:10:03+00:00

Asking to date is silly unless it’s a super conservative family. Asking for marriage is outdated but still appreciated and respected.

JabberWookie_77 · 2022-05-12T05:12:11+00:00

I didn’t ask my wife’s parents if I could date their daughter, but I was 27 and she was 26. We’d both lived on our own for almost ten years. I did go down to meet with them before I asked my wife to marry me. For me it was more of a courtesy. My plan was always to leave the US and live in different lands. That means taking their daughter and raising our children (their grandchildren) a long ways away.

The life I choose is doable without family support, but a better with it. I basically expressed my intentions to ask my wife to marry me, told them at some point we’d leave the country to any number of unknowable situations, and asked if they had any questions or concerns. He father just said, “she’ll go with you.”

It was an overwhelmingly positive experience for me, and we’ve always had clear boundaries since that day.

Comprehensive_Bed314 · 2022-05-15T00:25:06+00:00

Let’s look at two scenarios. Let’s assume for both scenarios that I have a boyfriend of several years.

SCENARIO #1:

Boyfriend: I’d like to have your permission to marry your daughter. (Idk how it’s worded; correct me if I worded it weirdly.)

Dad: The f*ck if I know. Ask her.

Mom: Ya, ask her.

SCENARIO #2:

Boyfriend: I’m going to ask your daughter to marry me.

Dad: K.

Mom: She wants an engagement necklace, not a ring.

iiPsychotic · 2022-05-16T08:35:22+00:00

You're reading wayyy to much into it lol, it doesn't make you beta because you're following age old traditions like that. I told my Father in law I was going to ask my Wife to marry me as well & he respected me even more for that. I personally think it's the right thing to do & I'm all about traditional values.

Blackbriar07 · 2022-07-15T12:28:43+00:00

While I don't believe that you need "permission" from the father (because that implies ownership), I do think it's always a good idea to let her parents know beforehand and obtain their blessing.

Title	Is it the "right" thing to do to ask a Father's permission to date his daughter? How about for marriage?
Author	Ponder3277
Upvotes	14
Comments	20
Date	May 11, 2022 4:08 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/undczh/is_it_the_right_thing_to_do_to_ask_a_fathers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/is-it-the-right-thing-to-do-to-ask-a-fathers.1114627 https://theredarchive.com/post/1114627

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