Why do you feel like society isn’t equal for men and women?

EmirikolWoker · 2022-11-23T18:30:38+00:00

A few rights that women have and men lack are:

Presumed custody of children in the case of divorce. This was exacerbated by the Tender Years Doctrine, spearheaded by first-wave feminist Caroline Norton, and perpetuated by modern feminists through lobbying groups' efforts against rebuttable presumed shared custody.
Seperation of consent to sex from consent to parenthood and the responsibilities thereof. Feminist commentators have said that a unilaterally male-controlled contraceptive would "take away womens' choices".
Bodily integrity (i.e., genital mutilation. For girls its a violation of international law; for men it's at best unusual but tolerable, and at worst actively campaigned for as an eroneous means of combating AIDS). Feminists, while claiming to be advocates for "equality", are curiously quiet on this issue, compared to their efforts on FGM.
Immunity from accusations of rape. Rape requires the perpetrator to have a penis, so when women engage in nonconsentual sex with men, he is more likely to be charged than she is. This is mainly the work of Feminist researcher Mary Koss, from whom feminists get the eroneous 1-in-4 statistic. And if a woman gets pregnant from raping a man (or boy), she can sue her rape victim for child support.

Obviously some of these would be best reformed by giving men rights (bodily integrity, for instance), while some would be better served by removing womens' privileges (immunity from accusations of rape). Equal treatment, that's all that's required.

Also, why do you all disagree with feminism because isn’t feminism just about people being equal?

The foundational principles of all flavours of feminism (class warfare between men and women with men winning, shorthanded as "Patriarchy") are inherrently anti-male when you examine what needs to be true for it to accurately describe reality. Feminists can claim that it's "just about equality", but it's equality based on bigotted assumptions, presuming psychopathy on the part of men as a class. This was true right from the start - have a look at the Declaration of Sentiments from the first wave.

Mens rights advocacy, and Egalitarian values in general, are innately anti-feminist.

duhhhh · 2022-11-23T18:30:55+00:00

men have more oppourtunity to be successful because I’m pretty sure all the richest people are men, so why do you feel below women?

Most of the people at the top AND at the bottom are men. Apex fallacy has feminists only drawing attention to the men at the top and pretending the ones at the bottom don't exist.

Also, why do you all disagree with feminism because isn’t feminism just about people being equal?

If the influential feminist researchers, professors, lobbiests, public policy makers, journalists, authors, politicians, and protesters (and the "real feminists" like you using their work rather than calling out their sexism, bias, bigotry, data manipulation, outright lies, etc) were to follow the dictionary definition of feminism rather than the man hating spirit of feminism, we wouldn't be at odds with them. Most of us would be feminists ourselves.

RubMobile2126 · 2022-11-23T18:46:58+00:00

Can you think of any words or phrases that a man could use to put down a woman online that he would get a lot backlash for? Now try to think of any words or phrases that a woman could use to put down a man and she would get backlash. Every group of people have certain derogatory terms that are deemed as unacceptable by out society. Even now there are people that say you shouldn't call someone a pedophile if they are attracted to minors. You should call them a minor attracted person. Pedophiles are getting more protection from derogatory terms then men are. It is completely acceptable to call men douchbags, assholes, fuck boys, and even incels regardless of if they are getting sex or not.

BlackberryDull402 · 2022-11-23T20:55:27+00:00

"I’m pretty sure all the richest people are men, so why do you feel below women?"

While a good portion of the wealthiest people are male, please keep in mind that they represent the minority of men as a whole.

Men are disproportionately affected by homelessness and often are excluded from shelters in favor of their female counterparts.

Some men have to work in terrible conditions where there is risk of death in order to provide for their families.

Boys have been falling behind in education for the past 30 years increasing the number of school dropouts.

Men are disproportionately affected by the number of suicides, with being the lack of support for men's mental health being one of the main causes.

In most countries men are the only ones forced to stay if a war starts.

Child custody cases tend to be heavily against men.

Male victims of sexual assault are barely ever taken seriously.

The issue I see with feminism is that they tend to create a narrative in which men are in position of power most of the time while most of them don't even have control of their lives. It also doesn't help that the loudest portion of feminists (not necessarily the majority) have been known for shutting down conferences in which men's mental health is discussed. They also tend to brush off these issues as "toxic masculinity" which really doesn't help the cause.

Maxwell1138 · 2022-11-23T18:58:52+00:00

Also, why do you all disagree with feminism because isn’t feminism just about people being equal?

Feminism has never been about equality. Thats just a slogan. There has never been a feminist talking point that wasn't specifically about giving rights and privileges to women. Most of these points could be gender neutral but never are. Its never about reducing violence its about reducing violence against women. Its never about increasing wages its about increasing wages for women. Its never about reducing homelessness its about reducing homelessness for women. Its never about raising college graduation percentages its about raising them for women. Its never about more rights for all its about more rights for women.

The concept of feminism for equality is absolute nonsense. Go into absolutely any feminist space. Literally any you can find, anywhere. And talk about equality and equal rights for men and women. You will not be allowed to remain there long.

I am completely serious. Try talking in any public feminist space about any of the talking points available from this subreddit about issues affecting Men. Take your time, find one you agree with that you think is a real problem that needs attention. There are many it shouldn't be hard to find one you can relate to/find worthy of attention. Then speak about this issue amongst Feminist. Find out exactly how much they are about equality very quickly.

But maybe don't do it on your main account. Because you'll be banned, instantly. And don't do it amongst your friends. Because you run a very high risk of losing those friends.

Punder_man · 2022-11-23T19:09:18+00:00

Firstly, and this is important..
"FEMINISM != WOMEN"

Just because we disagree with or feel hatred towards feminists who have pushed for / successfully enacted laws / polices / models which negatively affect men that does not mean we hate women.

Secondly, Many MRA's acknowledge that there are areas / systems which negatively affect woman (Roe V Wade being repealed for example) and many of us are pro women having rights.

Thirdly, Feminism is NOT "About people being equal" as you claim.
If it was, then there would be no need for Men's Rights to exist because, "Being equal" Feminism would be looking at and pushing for issues affecting men to get "EQUAL" treatment / resources as issues affecting women.

But that simply is not the case at all and when you bring this up most feminists will either say "Feminism isn't for men!" or "Go make your own movement like we did!"
But of course because our movement doesn't follow feminist dogma nor does it view issues men face through the lens of feminism we ultimately get criticized for "Doing it wrong"

Next, Feminism is full of double standards.
Feminists will push and lobby for more 'gender neutral' terms / descriptions when those terms / descriptions don't benefit women.. but will then use gender based descriptions against men.

As an example, feminists pushed for job titles to be changed to be more gender neutral:

Fireman -> Firefighter
Policeman -> Police Officer
Chairman -> Chair Person (or just Chair)

Because the according to them: "The original titles implied that they were jobs that were only suitable / doable by men"

Now, to be fair I don't actually have a problem with this as it makes things more inclusive..
However feminists continue to use gendered terms like:

Mansplaining
Manspreading
Manterrupting
And the biggest one: Toxic Masculinity.

These are all terms commonly used by feminists. These terms also EXCLUSIVELY imply that they are things that ONLY apply to men.

See the double standard here yet?

Finally, my major issue with feminism is how they allowed a bunch of feminists (Without any training / background in psychology or therapy etc) to develop a model of domestic violence known as the Duluth Model of Domestic Violence.

This model was built based upon biases and assumed conclusions rather than any actual facts / evidence. The model also ASSUMES that in all cases of domestic violence involving a man and a woman the man is ALWAYS the aggressor while the woman is ALWAYS the victim.

This has led to the exclusion of male victims of domestic violence from the statistics and has also led to the societal notion that "Men can't be victims of domestic violence"
The funny thing is, one of the creators of the Duluth Model came forward to admit this and despite this there has been NO effort or movement from feminists to repeal this faulty and useless model and have it replaced with a model that is based on facts, evidence and reality.

Feminists also lobbied very hard to have the definition of 'rape' specifically imply that the criminal must have a penis.
Ergo, in most countries, 'Rape' is a crime only men can commit where as when a woman rapes a man it is instead labeled as "Unwanted sexual contact / connection" and does not carry the same seriousness / stigma as 'rape' does.

These are the reasons why I am anti-feminist because these examples prove that feminism does not give a single shit about men or being fair towards men.

pearl_harbour1941 · 2022-11-23T19:53:24+00:00

You sound young.

By now you have probably worked out that men have at least 3 concrete human rights FEWER than women:

FGM is illegal, MGM is legal
Men have no reproductive rights at all (it's actually assault if he stops her from getting pregnant against his will)
Men have no parental rights - they are based solely on the word of the mother, if if that word is an outright lie

In the USA, men lack a further right: men MUST register for "selective service" (i.e. the draft) but women do not have to. This was originally the duty bestowed upon men who gained the concurrent right to vote. Now, women can vote, but with no duty to serve their country.

So these are human rights that men don't have.

There are well over 100 "privileges" that women get in society that most women are utterly unaware of, and men do not get at all. These range from serious: the de-facto assumption that women are incapable of doing harm to men (and that men are almost incapable of NOT doing harm to women); to not serious at all: women get free entry to clubs, men never do.

I am happy to list the privileges below, if requested.

ThePleb102 · 2022-11-23T21:15:17+00:00

The law is goofy bro if a woman raped and man.

The man can get charged with rape. 🤷

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-11-23T21:27:52+00:00

Thats called the apex falacy, the most succesfull peopel being male does not men in any way shape or form that men have more opportunity thats completly invalid as a logica argument.
For example, 70% of homeless people are male.

SweatyAdvance · 2022-11-23T21:30:18+00:00

I’m pretty sure all the richest people are men

This is called the Apex Fallacy.

when someone evaluates a group based on the performance of best group members, not a representative sample of the group members

Something feminists are all too familiar with.

Coincidentally, the nadir fallacy is when someone evaluates a group using the worst group members. Which is ALSO something feminists tend to do.

IceCorrect · 2022-11-23T21:37:31+00:00

Men and women have same oppourtinity to be richest person, but women choose not to. If you belive that all men have certain skills to be top% earner then you live in some kind of fairy world. To be richest person you need certain traits thats mainly occur in males, while females tend to marry rich men and spend his money with 0 effort, for me this is better position to be.

There is 1 big factor that motivate men to earn more - relationship, beacuse no women would ever take care of men, he wont be spoiled by some layer or doctor while he is working at her coffee shop. Start thinking about avrg men and women and you would see that IF women have glass ceiling, they also have golden parachute that would prevent them to be at lowest socio-economic status.

I've never seen feminist who would like to dismantle their privilages to make things equal, only men must do it, thats why no one on this sub belive feminist are about men and women be equal

milkdrinkingmaniac · 2022-11-23T21:40:39+00:00

Building on the other points here.

Today, unfortunately feminism is an institution. Like a company of some sort. All these professors and authors and activists are extremely wealthy because of it. It is not a movement, not anymore

The first thing an institution does is to ensure it's own survival. After that has been secured, it's second priority is to grow in power.

Being a feminist today is extremely profitable. The more they advocate, the more they earn. So they will keep pushing the line of equality further and further until there is nothing left. You can see it now, how every company seems to pander to feminists even though it makes absolutely no sense to do so (there was a post by UN women that made international men's day about them)

So I can say with confidence that the feminist movement today seeks dominion, for profit.

GallisTurkaconis · 2022-11-24T14:44:05+00:00

Yes men are more successful, but they also die earlier, get Harsher prison sentences for the same crimes, End up homeless and unemployed more come out commit suicide way more.

I don't know that most women really want to be equal. They certainly don't want to be treated the way Men are... As completely disposable and their value only depending on what they produce

And I feel like There are a lot of places that are hard for women to rise to the top but that doesn't mean it's easy for men, or men get A pass. Men are raised having to prove themselves every step of the way that's because that's what women traditionally wanted of men.

Title	Why do you feel like society isn’t equal for men and women?
Author	UpbeatContribution18
Upvotes	0
Comments	40
Date	November 23, 2022 5:57 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/z2vsit/why_do_you_feel_like_society_isnt_equal_for_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-do-you-feel-like-society-isnt-equal-for-men.1140454 https://theredarchive.com/post/1140454

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