~ archived since 2018 ~

This opinion piece meant to 'debunk the war on men' is poor, but is met with a host of poignant counter-comments.

qStin

December 20, 2013

62 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/12/father-s-rights-angrywhitemen.html

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Post Information

Title	This opinion piece meant to 'debunk the war on men' is poor, but is met with a host of poignant counter-comments.
Author	qStin
Upvotes	62
Comments	93
Date	December 20, 2013 3:51 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1taugk/this_opinion_piece_meant_to_debunk_the_war_on_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-opinion-piece-meant-to-debunk-the-war-on-men.1155638 https://theredarchive.com/post/1155638

Comments

[–]Ted8367 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ayelment 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thomas James Ball in Business Insider

"Mr. Ball left behind a lengthy missive prior to his suicide, which covers a range of topics from political corruption to why the family court system in America is utterly disgraceful. He was, to put it mildly, a staunch advocate of violent change, and it’s clear he hoped a great deal of others would follow in his footsteps to literally burn the system down.

(Ball even left instructions for how to make a proper Molotov cocktail along with specific vulnerabilities of police stations in his area…)

Perhaps the most interesting part of his final post, however, was the observation that the United States is no longer a nation of laws; Ball described what he calls the ‘second set of books,’ which is essentially the collection of policies, procedures, and protocols that courts and executive agencies rely upon."

Seems like he was against all sorts of things, but not specifically a MRA.

[–]Ma99ie 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]diamondjim 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ted8367 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ma99ie 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CornyHoosier 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]goGlenCoco 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SilencingNarrative 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (109 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Pineapples_and 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

You can take off your gold chain if you are in a bad neighborhood. A woman can't stop being a woman if she is drunk.

First off, women shouldn't be shitty people, obviously. As you mentioned in your previous post, men don't have many options when it comes to their partners reproductive rights. So, with that said, it would be common sense that men should be more aware of their partners views on abortion, birth control, and adoption when selecting their sexual partners. It isn't the sexiest of conversations to have, but it is better to be prepared for the consequences than oblivious. I don't see this changing in the future, women are the ones carrying the baby, it is their decision, it is their body. When it comes to adoption, i agree with you that fathers should be able to keep their child even if the mother wants to do adoption as the child is no longer attached to her body and she has no more authority than the father.

Pregnancy is a physically taxing situation. How you can argue otherwise is kind of ridiculous. Women have more than one child because they want more than one child. That doesn't negate the fact that it is physically taxing. Nor does it negate the fact that men don't have to endure pregnancy. Pregnant women work as well as men, so with that logic, nobody should work ever! I agree that the model/actress example wasn't the best. But women are often discriminated against when they become pregnant and after having the baby many couples don't have guaranteed maternal and paternal leave. This leads to women having to quit working and stay at home and blah blah blah. Which I think is where she was going with the model/actress example.

I'm sure women get pregnant for money. But unless you are affluent, this really isn't a problem of the common man. Its shitty no doubt, but women aren't getting rich nailing people who make $35K a year for child support.

Women also have a financial and societal obligation for 18 years.

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Pineapples_and 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Yes, they can put on a jacket, but they can never stop being a woman. There will always be boobs and a vagina under her clothes. I didn't mean to use being drunk as a catch all, it was just an example. But that still isn't very fair. A man can go get drunk anytime he wants, but women can only do so at a certain place, time, and only if they are wearing the appropriate attire. That is bologna.

I see your point. But I would just like to add one thing; a bad neighborhood will get cleaned up, however a man will never get pregnant. A man will always have a little bit more to lose in this situation.

Pregnancy isn't a walk in the park either. I don't think that anything that girl said made it sound like it was hell on earth. Nothing she said was super crazy. The only thing that was kind of off was the maternal death part. As we live in a modern society and maternal death is luckily rare, but it does happen.

I know that there are women who use pregnancy to get money, but (and this is probably just ignorance as I've never been in a situation like this) how much money could a man making 35k possibly be paying in child support to make it worth it? This is anecdotal but my dad made around 80k a year and he paid my mom 600/month.

I don't understand how women don't have a societal burden to mother their children and provide for them as well as the fathers. Can you explain this to me? No men cannot decide that they don't want to be fathers, neither can mothers. It is shitty and I would greatly weigh that in my decision to bring a child into this world as I don't want my children to be raised by a man who doesn't want them. But that doesn't make the child any less theirs. When does a man have to provide for a child that isn't his? What is the circumstance? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know.

I agree that women are responsible for their own actions. What made you think that I don't feel that way?

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SilencingNarrative 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwordfshII 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

So now everytime you have sex with a woman you run the risk of getting her pregnant. That is a reality.

Women run this risk as well, but for some reason MEN pay, not women.

Personal responsibility, right?

Where is a womans?

She can die during labor, if not before. Regardless, she will go through extreme pain through it all, yet you won't have to endure that. Yet long before then there's vomiting. If she's a smoker, drinker, drug addict, she needs to stop using those drugs for the duration of the pregnancy, despite any addictions. She will also have to watch what she eats, go easy on the fastfood and excess sugars. You on the other hand can keep shooting up, drinking beer and eating burgars with your buddies 24/7.

She is CHOOSING to go through pregnancy. Why should a man be on the hook for paying for what she CHOSE? If I buy a car, is a woman responsible for footing the bill? Both are a personal choice.

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You've being listening to too much of MRA rebuttals that don't make sense.

This challenges nothing i said and is simply an attempt to discredit

As I said, it's an issue of TRUST. I know a woman runs the risk, so don't have sex with a woman you don't trust.

They run no risk, with contraceptives.

That's part of your solution. Why is that so difficult for you MRAs to understand?

That is not a solution. That is avoidance.

I'll tell you way, because you don't want to accept personal responsibility.

Really? So women being "pro-sex" yet not taking responsibility for a child they CHOOSE to have is the definition of personal responsibility?

You've gotten accutom to propagated anti-feminist whining that blames everything on women and privileges you guys from any fault.

Lol yup so privileged to have the draft, make less than a woman in 147 out of 150 major US cities (PEW study and published in Cosmo), get screwed in family court, have to pay for someone else's CHOICE for 18 YEARS, amongst other serious issues

Go crawl back in whatever SRS hole you came out of. You have no relevance here

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Birth control is not 100%. What's more, for some women it doesn't agree with them. They don't like taking them.

So because a woman choses not to take birth control, and may or may not tell a man. The man is 100% responsible for paying for a child.... Which she chose to have. You are an entitled twat

It IS a solution, not avoidance, because if you are too afraid of women to get to know them before having sex than don't approach them, don't talk to them, don't have sex with them. Or just stick to hookers.

If a woman didn't want a child, they shouldn't have had sex.

You mentioning the draft and child custody issues further proves your brainwashed anti-feminist beliefs. You should relax and know that you are too immature to breed with and clearly too delusional to be drafted. If anything you'll be placed behind the lines as a cook, making sandwiches for marines.

Actually i already did my time, and i was an officer. Just because you chose to ignore men's issues does not mean they will go away.

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]fuckingdanzig 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's unbelievable how you would favor an abortion if you accidently got a woman pregnant, but at the same time you take a shit on women's rights. You probably wish feminism never came into exitence. If that was the case we may never have had access to contraception and MRAs like you would be whining a hundred times more.

Did i say abortion? Clean out the hair in your ears hippie. I support a woman's right to choose, but a man should have a right to choose as well. That does not exist today.

I envision a time when a man and a woman both have effective contraceptive options (men don't). If by chance pregnancy happens, a man should have the opportunity to financially abort (similar time frame to female abortion) If the woman wants to keep the baby, the cost is on her.

This is reasonable and fair.

What you hate you also benefit from.

Lol yup, i saw feminist's supporting prostate cancer awareness, equal vacation an sick days for men (women get maternity), and the draft for women.

Fuck off, you do nothing for men except complain you want more privilege.

[–]fuckingdanzig 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]avantvernacular 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]avantvernacular 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Halafax 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Halafax 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]avantvernacular 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]deeptimeswimmer 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Peter_Principle_ 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eulabeia 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eulabeia 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eulabeia 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eulabeia 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eulabeia 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SilencingNarrative 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

In a manner of speaking, there has always being a war on men. It is nothing new. There have being weapons, racial, religious and social wars all through history. Men have died defending their land against other men.

I was with you up until this part:

Yet who created the weapons used? Other men.

given that you didn't go on to ask

and who demanded that men do so in order to purchase their safety? women.

The societies that kept women and children safe by always standing ready to sacrifice men in large numbers thoughout history overran those that didn't. The only ones that survived to the modern day are the ones that made male disposability and female safety a pillar of their cultures.

Women and men made that bargain for their mutual benefit.

Women required the violence of other men in order to purchase their relative safety.

So I think women are as much to blame for the plight as men as other men are.

You might want to read up on the white feather campaign if you want to see an demonstration of how that works.

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]VenusSky -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SwordfshII 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do it. Start up a network. Some of your kind believe the MRM is growing, so that means females are joining your flock, yes? Maybe?

Actually there are... In fact even first wave female feminists are switching...hmmm

Imagine the money you'd make from condom & birth control advertisers. You might even allow a few attorney corporations to sponsor for extra cash with the quote "Have you being accused of a false rape allegation? Call 555-fucked"

You really responded with facts there! Not just hate and vitriol!

You see? There's money to be made for anti-feminists. Those who make a living doing so, such as Paul Elam, know this. He doesn't want feminism to disappear because the day it does he won't have anything more to whine about, he won't have "bad girl" stories to tell and no more women to dox. Like the church makes money off the hoax of the Devil, avfm makes money off the imagined matriarchic world.

Blah blah blah. There are no facts or evidence in your argument. Every example of discrimination against a male that is widespread can be backed with facts and studies. You just rant like a crazy idiot.