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New male contraceptive pill that MSM is declaring "safe" has only been through 1 MONTH trial & relies on drastically lowering testosterone. Be prepared for the anti-male attack articles by feminists when men are apprehensive and want further testing for dangers, just like they did for the last one.

GadolBoobies

March 18, 2018
85 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://archive.is/2quRP
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Title New male contraceptive pill that MSM is declaring "safe" has only been through 1 MONTH trial & relies on drastically lowering testosterone. Be prepared for the anti-male attack articles by feminists when men are apprehensive and want further testing for dangers, just like they did for the last one.
Author

GadolBoobies

Upvotes 85
Comments 38
Date March 18, 2018 11:13 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/85f1l7/new_male_contraceptive_pill_that_msm_is_declaring/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/new-male-contraceptive-pill-that-msm-is-declaring.1178850
https://theredarchive.com/post/1178850
Red Pill terms in post
feministtestosterone
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Comments

[–]fengpi 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I do recall a bunch of jeering about men being wimps because an experimental contraceptive pill had a certain percentage of people going sterile in the trials in addition to lesser side-effects. That was supposed to be a fine example of how fragile men are, they can't handle a little ache here and there, ha ha ha, what weaklings, ho ho ho, the weaker sex, hee hee hee. The sterility aspect went unmentioned in favor of hyping the lesser side-effects.

[–]tenchineuro 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I do recall a bunch of jeering about men being wimps because an experimental contraceptive pill had a certain percentage of people going sterile in the trials in addition to lesser side-effects.

You mean like ED and suicide? Yeah, I've seen feminists accusing men of being unreasonable here.

[–]fengpi 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Those may have also been among the side-effects.

I mean, do men really need to live when their corpses can work as perfectly good worm-food? P'shaw, I think not.

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Those may have also been among the side-effects.

Those were among the side effects. Mind you ED is in fact a form of birth control, then again, it appears to be something women are willing to accept given the Viagra vs birth control debacle a few years back.

[–]Singulaire 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Those people regularly failed to mention that a majority of the men participating in the trial wished to continue, but it was shut down prematurely by an ethics oversight board.

[–]redmagistrate50 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What's also seldom mentioned is that to keep from chemically castrating the participants they were given regular injections of testosterone.

The whole set up was a nightmare from any ethical standpoint.

[–]auMatech 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where could I find more info about this? Seems a bit terrifying to me that they could just claim it to be "safe" so quickly and with something like that looming over it.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists: why won't men open up and be vulnerable? Must be toxic masculinity.

Man: I don't want to take a pill that could exacerbate my suicidal thoughts.

Feminists: that's your toxic masculity speaking. Man up pussy!

[–]contexistential 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

Feminist here. Being apprehensive about a one-month trial and choosing to wait for further testing before signing up for medication that alters your hormones is entirely reasonable. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a huge hypocrite in denying someone else the right to body autonomy that they are fighting for. Not to mention severely lacking in empathy, given that a lot of women have experience with hormonal birth control.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Seeing as male and female contraceptives are incomparable due to there being complete physiological differences between the two sexes... I showed my feminist lady the new male pill stuff and asked her about her pill... she couldn't even tell me if it lowered or raised her hormones. It's flabergasting that she can't say what her contraceptive does to her body, yet thankfully she's not the type to bitch on other peoples choices... But how many of the feminists that write these articles about male contraceptives do you think are like her, clueless about their own?

[–]contexistential 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

A lot of them probably. I admit that I can’t say with total confidence that I could answer that question either. I take a drug that causes serious interactions with hormonal birth control, so I arguably have even more of a responsibility to know how this shit works.

I don’t think that’s a particularly compelling proof point for anything though, unless I’m missing something?

If I’m understanding you correctly, one could easily respond that women were originally handed hormone-altering drugs under the guise of empowerment, and have since been conditioned to take these risks without questioning them; and now men have the privilege of thinking about their own health first and the choice whether to take on responsibility for birth control. Note, I DO NOT think that is a particularly compelling argument either (nor do I claim that birth control wasn’t empowering for women when it was introduced), but in this context I can’t say it would be an entirely inaccurate argument.

Not looking for an actual response, just pointing out what you might be opening the door to. It’s an interesting topic to consider though.

In any event, even IF we were looking at a scenario where women had been force fed birth control pills for the past 8 decades or so and no one ever bothered to do a single study to find out what kind of risks they were taking, it STILL wouldn’t change the fact that it is completely reasonable for men to be hesitant about a drug with a one month trial, and have the right to choose what they put in their bodies in general.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

She has to take hormone types due to it being her control for PCOS rather than taking straight hormones. Personally, I don't find it to be "force fed" so much as... if you didn't know, it's on you for not reading up about it. Personal responsibility, something that is often used against feminist arguments as they tend to remove that from women and blame it on "patriarchy" and men, similar to how you use the term "force fed." Did you not have a choice to read up on it or not read up on it? Ask the Dr for something different if you didn't like what you were offered?

[–]contexistential 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I never said anyone was force fed anything. I was saying even if that had been the case, it still wouldn’t negate a man’s right to decide what he puts in his body.

Re: my own personal responsibility, yes all of those things. I had all of those choices and exercised them. I do not take hormonal birth control as a result. Which is irrelevant. You said most of these women probably don’t know whether they are increasing or decreasing hormones, I had to withhold judgement there because I admit I don’t remember how birth control works either. Your questions are condescending, and the lecture is unnecessary given my statement was literally one of accountability.

I’m not sure why you took issue with either of these things, but I’m not always as clear as I think I am so it could be partially my fault.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry if I seemed aggressive or on the offense, those parts just stood out in contrast to me as the same ol' same ol' when reading/debating feminist stuff... it tends to be phrased to remove agency from the woman and place it on the man and it's rather annoying when people shirk responsibility for themselves. No one on earth has any responsibility to take care of 'you' as 'you' do yourself, even parents. So I tend to see that stand out every time I see it and point it out. Men have been taught to take responsibility, even when it's not really theirs to take and... well, I'm not sure how I would phrase what women are taught in that regard, historically, but current year... they are taught to not, they can blame some invisible ghost for all their woes rather than say, "I shouldn't have done that," "I put myself in that situation," "I did that and it was wrong." shrug Gets old after a while... Men are told the same as women when it comes to Dr's prescribing medicine, some men choose to educate themselves some don't... The only ones I really see blaming the Dr, "the man," [as in government, big brother, not literally men] for it are the conspiracy theorist types. We all have that responsibility to know what we're doing, what we're getting into, and how our own personal choices will affect our lives, even if we can't predict an outcome, we chose to do the things that brought us to it.

[–]contexistential -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I would also ask that you have a bit more empathy and leave the “patriarchy in quotes” out of this. Try to remember that women are constantly being told what they can and can’t do with their bodies by men in political power. I fully support men having safe medical choices and not being judged on them, partially because I have empathy having been there myself.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I would also ask that you have a bit more empathy and leave the “patriarchy in quotes” out of this. Try to remember that women are constantly being told what they can and can’t do with their bodies by men in political power.

Really? What were you told today? Be specific.

[–]contexistential -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Men legislate abortion and make a number of other decisions regarding what a woman can and can’t do with her body.

I support men being given access to safe methods of birth control, and I support men having the right to make informed decisions on whether the current level of research is adequate for them to decide what’s right for them without judgement. I am actively advocating for men here, in part because I’ve experienced this and can empathize. Im on your side, and you’re mocking me. How can you expect women to advocate for your cause when you humiliate and demean them?

I would appreciate if men would look at women as people and understand that it’s very condescending to be ridiculed for having a problem with men making these decisions for us.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

** I don't see anything specific here as I asked for, odd that you cannot come up with one example **

Men legislate abortion

WRONG, men and women legislate about abortion and tons of other stuff.

I support men being given access to safe methods of birth control

It's not like much of anybody has been looking, and even worse, pharmaceutical companies have researched this and they talked to several times more women than men. Looks like they see a male pill as more of a woman's issue.

I am actively advocating for men here

You mean the ones who "legislate abortion", or the rest of them?

Im on your side

Superficially, perhaps, but I'm not entirely convinced, your ability to blame men writ large seems well developed.

How can you expect women to advocate for your cause when you humiliate and demean them?

Perhaps you should ask yourself the same question.

I would appreciate if men would look at women as people

See? Do you see it? You claim to be on my side then post this? What am I to believe, your claims about yourself, or the things you actually post?

Say, do you also agree with Cathy Newman that “The internet is being written by men with an agenda,”?

it’s very condescending to be ridiculed for having a problem with men making these decisions for us.

First off, this is wrong. The only way all the decisions can be made for you is if you are a man.

But I realize that as a woman you probably think that women are the only stakeholders in family issues, pregnancy, and childbirth.

[–]contexistential 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And you wonder why no one gives a shit about your movement. I’m not here to be abused.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And you wonder why no one gives a shit about your movement.

Now you're making stuff up.

I’m not here to be abused.

Great, cause you are not.

Well, perhaps by all those male legislators who are constantly telling you what you can do with your body, but apparently not in a written form that you can show me.

[–]fasterfind -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Eh, men legislate what control a woman has over her body already when it comes to abortion law, so... we don't actually have good footing for an argument on this one.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol, and women legislate what men can do with theirs... That argument can be made both ways and is loaded with more shit than a Trump vs Hillary mud fight.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Both Men and Women legislate. But also judges from the bench.
  2. Men and Women vote these legislators into office, there are more female voters than male voters.
  3. Abortion is not a right, it's one Supreme Court decision that proves yet again that women can get whatever they want by lying about being raped.

[–]contexistential -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Prepare to have your worldview drastically changed by the coming mockery from other feminists.

[–]contexistential 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How does this add to the conversation or your cause?

[–]TheJazzProphet 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I totally agree, and I appreciate that you, being a feminist, came here to say what you did. This drug does seem like it needs some better testing, or maybe even a better theoretical approach. I'm no endocrinologist, but as far as I understand it, female hormonal birth control works the way it does because women naturally experience a fluctuation of hormone levels over their menstrual cycle, which birth control changes to prevent the cycle from occurring normally. This is all conjecture, but it seems to me that, since it is normal for women to experience wide fluctuations in hormone levels over short periods of time, there may be something either about women or about the specific hormones that makes it easier/safer to induce hormonal infertility in women than in men.

Men, on the other hand, don't experience a cycle, but do experience changes to their hormone levels for various reasons throughout their lives. I've heard events like getting married and having kids decrease testosterone, and it's no wonder since testosterone is partly responsible for driving a man to seek out a mate and thus becomes less important after he has fulfilled his responsibility to his genes. I've been hearing a lot recently about all kinds of health problems associated with low testosterone in men, and it makes me think there are probably better male birth control methods than lowering testosterone levels.

It may just be that it's more biologically feasible to regulate conception in women, although I'd really rather that not be the case. I think it would be great if there was an option for men as well. The fact that women currently have the vast majority of the responsibility for birth control means they also have the vast majority of the decision making power in reproduction, and it doesn't help that men are legally obligated to provide for their children, whether or not they agreed to make them. Giving men the option to turn off their little guys would make it so that producing a child would require both partners to agree that it's what they want.

[–]fengpi 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Anyone who suggests otherwise is a huge hypocrite

...Or the more typical kind of feminist that you encounter online. Potayto, potahto.

[–]contexistential 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Great takeaway.

[–]fengpi 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Whenever I smell flowers, it's usually a funeral.

[–]contexistential 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Seems like a good strategy to gain traction for your movement.

[–]fasterfind 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you.

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Like the pill for women, the experimental pill combines activity of an androgen - a male hormone such as testosterone - and a progestin.

What the heck is a progestin? At first I thought it was an estrogen, but no....

--A progestin is a type of medication which is used most commonly in hormonal birth control and menopausal hormone therapy. They can also be used in the treatment of gynecological conditions, to support fertility and pregnancy, to lower sex hormone levels for various purposes, and for other indications

So what are the long-term results of progestin on men?

The results showed that the pill worked only if taken with food. "Despite having low levels of circulating testosterone, very few subjects reported symptoms consistent with testosterone deficiency or excess," said Professor Stephanie Page, senior investigator on the study.

"These promising results are unprecedented in the development of a prototype male pill," All groups taking DMAU experienced some weight gain, as well decreases in HDL ("good") cholesterol.

Must be taken with food to be effective? What is going on here?

And what are the long-term effects of "low levels of circulating testosterone" in men? IMHO, this does not sound like a good thing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They are secretly giving you hormone changing drugs to turn all of the men into transgender women... 😂

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Biphemol A.

[–]fasterfind 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The news is interesting, but the title attacks feminists preemtively. If we're going to attack them, then in all fairness, it has to be after they've done something rather than before it. It has to be factual rather than fanciful. We are, after all, coming from a position of righteous indignation, fact based reactions, and moral high ground.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lowering testosterone in men causes many problems... firstly it makes you borderline transgender (not something I want as a side effect for not having kids)

secondly, it makes your mood change, you can have mood swings and problems related to that..

finally, it causes muscle problems, ED and other health problems

Why not just do vagesjell instead of pumping men with female hormones/removing male hormones from men???

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Glossypol

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