Recently there’s been a minor upset about the portrayal of a Ukrainian Character in Emily in Paris, which has sparked conversations on Eastern European representation. This was one of the slides on the Insta post I saw, and I was glad to see they at least somewhat covered it from a male lens.

SuspicousEggSmell · 2022-01-10T19:35:52+00:00

So to elaborate more I suppose, the character that sparked this all was a Ukrainian woman, who are unfortunately often subject to many stereotypes that can put them at legitimate risk. The stereotypes about Ukrainian women and Eastern European women tend to get more focus for the reasons you’d expect, as well as their consequences for the women and countries being rather clear. However there are also a lot of stereotypes about Eastern European men, and while this post doesn’t go into some the historical experiences, Eastern European men were often subject to suspicion in North America, being stereotyped as dirty, incompetent, and violent. In Canada, Ukrainian men were often payed less and subject to labour abuse, had been placed in internment camps in the fist world war, Ukrainians and Eastern Europeans in general were over represented in the eugenics program, and Ukrainians often dealt with conflict the RCMP. Ukrainians are now largely assimilated and this point of Canadian history is largely forgotten, but the trauma it has inflicted on Ukrainians here is often understated, and while North America seems largely safe for Eastern Europeans, there are still reports of discrimination in much of the European continent, with many of these masculine stereotypes still playing a role in how Eastern European men are treated and viewed.

BloomingBrains · 2022-01-11T08:25:36+00:00

I never noticed this before, but now that you point it out, it is weird to me how this Eastern European stereotype is so different than our usual stereotypes about the manliness/creepiness spectrum. And I say "spectrum" because that's exactly what it is. Manliness and misogyny are typically mutually exclusive, a sliding scale where being more of one makes you less of the other.

For example: when any non Eastern European character in media is portrayed as a misogynist, the last thing you would think of them is a "hyper masculine tough guy". Such characters are positioned as the exact opposite: the jealous, creepy nerd, the socially awkward loner, etc. You rarely ever see a 6'3 jock named Tyler with a chiseled jaw line positioned as the creep even though that definitely does happen in real life.

So ok, good job on not perpetuating the jock/nerd dichotomy, but this isn't exactly better. Arguably maybe even worse.

Bubich · 2022-01-11T01:28:16+00:00

Nice post, OP. As a Ukrainian I approve. Can confirm we've been brought up to just suck it up and embrace whatever stereotypes are placed upon us. It's deeply ingrained in the culture to not be vulnerable, not be a pussy and be able to take a joke that if gender-reversed would 100% get you ostracized.

Algiz56 · 2022-01-11T09:26:42+00:00

Hmm. Nice.

Westerners finally come to acknowledge the fact, that that they have some very impolite, to say the least, stereotypes about Eastern Europe people. As a ukranian man, I can appreciate this.

Shame that this took so long.

But looks like there is still a long way to go for west.

First, yes, we are pretty much heteronormative, because family is the top priority thing in our lifestyle. Also we quite adhere to norms and traditions, pretty much because for a long time of our history there alvays were somebody who tried to either invade to our country or in other ways assimilate it. XXI century, alas, is the same.

But, what western people seem to not understand at all, is the fact, that being traditional is not in any way means xenophobic (as an umbrella term of resent for people who are not like you, not necessarily only in racial way). We are pretty much tolerant to people who differ, as long as they do not pose threat or try to impose their point of view on society. And, of course, obey state laws.

As for misoginy, it is just hilarious and can not be further from truth. Women here have alvays been seen as an equal to men, since time immemoriable. Mothers, grandmothers and such are higly revred in society, same as men are. The difference between east and west here lays in one important thing, I suppose.

You say that people are good unconditionally. And should be accepted and celebrated by society unless they do something terrible.

We belive, that people worth accepting and reverence, if they adhere to their specific roles, duties and ideals, though even that is not as rigid as you may imagine.

We see men and women equally worth, but do not see them as same, because men and women are, obviously, different in many ways. So society places different roles of them. There is nothing new here. Men are seen to be protectors and providers, women are seen to be hearthkeepers and caregivers.

Common thing in this two roles is responsibility. Both husband and wife are held responsible for the family and each other.

And, actually, until they act upon responsibility, we do not care much who brindgs bread to the table, and who changes diapers of a baby.

And we really recent those, who neglect said responsibility.

That's why mindless consumerism, vanity, blind following of social trends, abandonment of family duties and other unpleasant products of "western progressivism" look like a dangerous psychosis for people in Eastern Europe. To us it is not as much "progress" as degradation.

I may make some colors too dense in this post, but I belive you got the idea. And, I hope you understood, how far from reality is western representation of Ukrainians.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2022-01-10T21:15:01+00:00

Could you explain what you mean by "male lens"?

Stephen_Morgan · 2022-01-11T14:48:46+00:00

I've never seen Emily in Paris, but from what I've heard it's highly "problematic" agaionst several races, and the main character rapes a kid in the first season and is never criticised for that.

Richardsnotmyname · 2022-01-11T19:37:41+00:00

I mean Emily in Paris is just a shitty show written by the most narcissistic of narcissistic American about a terrible ignorant xenophobic American who quite literally is a sex predator because she had sex with an underage boy. I don't have high expectations.

2022-01-10T22:58:14+00:00

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