Steps to/logistics of divorce

CommanderOfCheese45 · 2023-06-12T18:39:50+00:00

have been in couples therapy for over a year

Sounds like your therapist is terrible, or you're not learning anything, you're just both going in order to triangulate the therapist against the other person. The therapist should be teaching you:

How to fight fair -- argue in such a way that you can actually come to a conclusion about something you disagree about, without resenting each other. I.e. don't use ultimatums, don't take disagreement as a sign of disrespect, don't invoke anything outside of the issue as part of the argument (i.e. classic 'woman' tactic -- when she's 'losing' the logical part of the argument, either transform it and make it either "you don't really care about me" or "but what about <this other thing we argued about a year ago>?" or the classic "man" tactic of just going "fine" and going silent on the issue, waiting for the inevitable moment for her decision to fail and then go "I warned you about this.")
How to identify how you each tell each other that you love each other, and how to tell each other you love each other in ways that you'll actually hear each other -- e.g. (common case) you're saying "I love you" by letting her shop the way she wants, keeping up with "men's" chores like all the yardwork and maintenance and even stepping in and doing some "women's" chores like dishes and cleaning sometimes, but she doesn't hear 'I love you' through any of that, she wants to 'hear' it by being snatched up and taken to the opera; she tells you "I love you" by making sure everything is in order so you don't have to worry about anything when you get home, by buying you stuff she thinks you'll like and by keeping you involved in an active social life, but you don't 'hear' it that way, the way you want to hear it is to hear her tell you that you're doing an amazing job, that you do certain things so much better than she does, and to spontaneously give you hugs and kisses and pinch your butt so you feel like you're an attractive and successful man.

Unfortunately I'd bet that you're both just using the therapist to validate yourselves, to hear it from someone else in front of the other person that you're right and they're wrong. And the therapist is more than happy to take your money and listen to you ask him to take sides. This will never get you anywhere and will just be an idiotic monthly expense on nothing.

As far as steps for and logistics of divorce, and I'm not saying 'do it' or 'don't do it' here, just what to do and what to expect.

Divorce can be done entirely pro se (no lawyer necessary) but at the very least consulting with a lawyer about whatever deals come up will be important so you can get an idea of what's reasonable and what's not. I myself retained a lawyer and my ex-wife did not; my lawyer advised me that my initial offer was waaaaay too generous, my ex was pissed when the initial proposal came in with numbers way lower than what we had been talking about, and then when she went over it in a consultation she ultimately chose not to retain her own lawyer, I'm guessing because the one she consulted with probably told her 'yeah you're probably not going to get much more than that, and it would be more expensive to retain us than you could probably recover extra from him.'

Every state is going to have a different process, but ultimately you'll have to come to agreements on:

Whether or not there will be spousal support paid either way
How custody of kids will be shared
How existing property will be divided

If you can't come to an agreement either by mutual consent or in mediation, then it will go to arbitration and be decided by a judge based on the facts, including both your current financial pictures. Judges have way too much leeway in making decisions, but in the process of drawing up the agreement you can use the worst-case of what a judge might realistically offer in order to motivate the other to sign the agreement.

The kinds of things to expect or have:

Make copies of the last several paychecks, W2's or other documents that prove your own income as well as your spouse's income. That's particularly important if your income is derived from a business or if your soon-to-be-ex is not earning up to her full potential. It may be necessary to have a career evaluation done to show that your ex is deliberately under-earning.
Get your own proposed budget down in writing as well as a prospective budget for your ex (and she will do the same). At arbitration, spousal support may depend on how it impacts your budgets. In some jurisdictions, rather than pseudo-equalizing income, the guidelines dictate that spousal support be no more than what it takes to cover a shortfall in a reasonable budget.
Make copies of titles, deeds, mortgage documents, bank statements, retirement statements and other proofs of ownership of property, debts and necessary expenses. This will make the 'pool' of stuff you'll have to divide, as well as back up your proposed budgets.
You will split up property. It need not be equal, only 'equitable' (i.e. if you're each getting a car and a house out of the deal, you may not need to bother with splitting up the values exactly equally). You'll need to come to an agreement on how stuff should be divided.
If there has been abuse, having proof of said abuse will work in your favor. You should also have some form of documentation including possibly voice recorders in order to defend yourself from accusations of abuse -- because it can and very well may happen to you. My ex tried to do that and failed because I was recording stuff and she knew it.
Communication is likely to be highly charged, exploding with negative emotion. You need to stop it on your end and learn to communicate only directly relevant and actionable information free of emotion and free of 'weasel words' that open up the conversation to anything else. You will also need to learn how to shut off the emotion processing center as you read communiques from your soon-to-be ex and parse them for specific, relevant and actionable information. This is a tough skill but you can learn it. Key words to Google are "grey rock" and "BIFF" for resources on it.
If you can't sign an agreement in a certain amount of time, it will likely go to mediation. Mediation should be backstopped by having a court date for arbitration, thus the threat of what a judge would "likely" award creates motivation for your stbx to come to an agreement.
Mediation is not negotiation. It is a conflict resolution tool wherein you decide what things you already agree on and lock them down so they can't be negotiated on later. It's a checklist of things that you'll need to have agreements about in the final document. Don't come in thinking you'll be able to trade something she wants in exchange for something you want -- it'll turn out "I'll sign on this thing if you'll sign on this thing" and then when it comes to signing the thing she's conceding to you she goes "nope lol" and you either toss the whole agreement and look unreasonable or you're stuck with a bad agreement.

lifelesslump69 · 2023-06-12T16:02:59+00:00

I was always told you will know when you know... except i do know and still cant follow through. I cant think of a scenario where i can and trust me, there have been plenty of bad situations that any logical person would have been long gone.

What Electronic-Ice said... except i am the type of person that prefers to wing it, i will take the high road, and as long as i dont walk away with zero - i will consider it win.

for now.... i am in a similar spot of just debating on what is the best path forward

Dangerous_Item_6879 · 2023-06-12T17:23:54+00:00

Don’t tell your wife anything anymore. Avoid confrontation as much as possible. If she attacks you, let her beat the shit out of you and do not retaliate.

Speak to an attorney asap. Every state has different rules.

You should be able to get an idea of custody outcomes, asset division and alimony if applicable.

Hide as much cash as you possibly can.

pk2at · 2023-06-12T17:51:36+00:00

I don't think talking to lawyers is helpful at this stage. You'll need to prepare financially for at least a year, learn how to conceal assets, learn disclosure laws in your state, if there is legal separation available, take a sabbatical from work and claim zero income, transfer money to your parents, cash out some investments, begin purchases in cash etc. etc. etc.

Its a 20 year relationship, most of the assets will be considered marital property and you may get looted by feminist courts if you go the standard route (i.e. agree to a 50-50 split)

Spodee5 · 2023-06-13T14:32:29+00:00

Is it going to be amicable? Can the two of you come to an agreement yourself? Would mediation work? Or is it going to be a contested battle in court…….each of those situations needs different legal help and they go from cheap to expensive in order that I wrote them

Title	Steps to/logistics of divorce
Author	the__bakeshow
Upvotes	11
Comments	12
Date	June 12, 2023 3:46 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/147q6xf/steps_tologistics_of_divorce/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/steps-tologistics-of-divorce.1221944 https://theredarchive.com/post/1221944

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