~ archived since 2018 ~

I just realized the difference between losers and victims

SwoleFeminist · 2023-06-25T17:50:58+00:00

Society hates losers and wants to beat them down and make them worse. Society loves victims and wants to protect them and make them better. Why is this...

SwoleFeminist

June 25, 2023

243 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	I just realized the difference between losers and victims
Author	SwoleFeminist
Upvotes	243
Comments	79
Date	June 25, 2023 5:50 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14isexh/i_just_realized_the_difference_between_losers_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-just-realized-the-difference-between-losers-and.1223444 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223444

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[–]ConestogaCreek[🍰] 34 points35 points36 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Clockw0rk -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to frame this slightly differently.

Capitalism hates losers, it wants to beat them down and take all their resources.

Capitalism loves victims, it wants to appeal to them and take all their resources.

Why is this relevant? Because men have always been the workhorse of society. Capitalism gobbles up workers, robs them of their time by paying them unfairly, erodes their sanity with minimal sick days and time off, and further shrinks the American family by denying flexible schedules for raising children. And when it's done, it spits out the husk left over; with no savings, no retirement, no pension, and no "wasteful" social safety nets.

America doesn't have a real progressive movement, because a real progressive movement would push back against capitalist overreach.

Real progress is about helping everyone. The US two party system has failed; neither has the country's best interests at heart anymore.

The more people that realize this, the more pushback we can create.

[–]ConestogaCreek[🍰] 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clockw0rk 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I think your question is going too far, too fast, and that's often what frightens people away from the subject entirely.

We live in a very difficult time for information and classical theory. News and social media are constantly bombarding even average citizens with a stream of opinionated information that often detracts from the truth to serve a political agenda.

Historic examples, present to this day in nordic countries, demonstrate positively that a well regulated capitalist market can exist alongside socialist, public owned infrastructure.

My replacement for capitalism would be similar. A well funded state that can sponsor public programs with tax dollars, publicly owned utilities, and a competitive free market. But I'm not an economic scholar, I'm a college educated US peasant.

Fearmongers would have you believe that any alternative to our current system is proven to result in suffering and death. That's wholly untrue, as even cursory knowledge of other modern countries plainly demonstrates. But people have been polarized to believe the only alternative to capitalism is communism, and many find that topic frightening to this day. People have been mislead to believe that the only way we can have meaningful economic reform is if "the government" takes and "redistributes" all of our belongings. It's utter madness.

But capitalism, as it stands, is a cancer. It exists only to grow while consuming all of the resources in its path. There is no "end game" capitalism, it's unsustainable. The system will collapse under its own weight if it's simply left to fester. We can't remove it entirely without killing the patient, but we can stop it from growing out of control and build limits around it.

As technology continues to evolve, the nature of work changes. How and what we commoditize will change as well. Despite misinformation, we live in a nearly scarcity-free world today. With technology, we can produce more power through renewable sources, grow more food in more diverse climates than ever, and deliver essential services to remote locations previously cut off from society at large. Capitalism thrives off of scarcity, and will impose artificial scarcity at any cost in order to extract wealth from the working class. Our highly automated, scarcity-free future is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism as it stands. And if we don't recognize this, and plan ahead, we will experience a very nasty collapse.

Some say we already are.

[–]ConestogaCreek[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clockw0rk 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Again, I'm not an economic scholar, I'm a college educated US peasant. So feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. I've done "research", but certainly not enough to confidently publish a paper on the matter. This is an internet forum, this is my opinion.

First, the simple question is not so simple. The US does NOT have a lean, tech-savvy government behind it. We're beholden to special interests to the point where we still have to file our own taxes, other countries handle it automatically and send citizens an itemized bill of how their taxes were spent.

Our tax code is a absolute mess, and there's tons of loopholes, especially for corporations, that allow people (and "people") with extremely high incomes to pay virtually no taxes at all. This is a problem. It means that we the people, the vast majority of taxable individuals, are getting screwed on the whole deal. We should be bringing in even more tax dollars, at no expense to the average citizen, but our politicians are in bed with the wealthiest Americans and have turned our once democratic discourse into an oligarchy.

I would argue that most of our current spending is wasted on highly inefficient programs that have sunk more into bureaucracy than actually solving problems and assisting people. With intelligent choices in automation and bringing systems up to date, I theorize that we're probably already bringing in enough tax money to cover our current expenses, it's simply being mismanaged and undercut by inept lawmakers, special interest groups, and greedy business entities.

Major reforms need to happen. Tax reforms, social security reforms, education reforms, and healthcare reforms to start. This is the digital age, communication is instantaneous to anywhere on the planet, there should be no excuse for the "paperwork delays" and turn around times involved in getting aid when you actually need it. And likewise, we need more stringent protocols to catch people who abuse these systems.

This article goes over the "Tax Gap", which is in effect the amount of revenue lost by the IRS to system cheaters. It's over a trillion dollars. That right there would pay for all of medicare and then some.

Whenever politics comes up, I have to beg and plead with people to see where their perspective is coming from. "Government" isn't bad, but the US government certainly is. "Government" isn't inefficient by nature, but our model certainly seems like it. "Government spending" isn't wasteful by default, but it sure seems like it from where we sit.

Other countries manage just fine, and do so while having higher standards of healthcare, education, and general happiness than the US. It's not a matter of scale, it's a matter of effort. And our "leadership" doesn't care enough about us to push for the reforms we need to remain competitive on the global stage.

[–]ConestogaCreek[🍰] -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

You have a major aversion to direct, concise answers.
Which country is doing it better? Before you say Sweden know that A) it’s not true B) the USA could never adopt their system. Culture, history - these things matter. 3) You condemn American capitalism by comparing it to a Utopia that exists only in your mind. 4) If we and our system are so bad why is everyone in the world dying to get in here? 5) Absolute nonsense that corporations and the Rich don’t pay their fair share. Half of Americans pay no Federal tax at all. New data from the IRS find that the top 25 percent of earners paid nearly 89 percent of all income taxes in 2020. 6) Capitalism cannot be stopped. It can only be made to change form. Even in the darkest days of the Soviet union capitalism thrived. It’s simply moved underground. Some of the earliest written records of mankind are ledgers and accounts and lists of goods and services swapped and traded. Capitalism is what human beings do. 7) for nearly a century now the American standard of living has been the envy of the world. Your utopian dreams and fantasies do not square with any reality on the planet past or present. I will concede this however, and that is that under Dementia Joe that is beginning to change. 8) the problems you attribute to capitalism actually stem from Globalism.

[–]denisc9918 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clockw0rk 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Eyem_beta_xen_u 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

My replacement for capitalism would be similar. A well funded state that can sponsor public programs with tax dollars, publicly owned utilities, and a competitive free market.

So you're claiming to want to help men, and your soultion is... taking money from taxpayers (mostly male), and give them to tax recipientes, who are mostly female? You don't care about men, you care about capitalism, and want to piggyback the men's rights movement to hire soldiers for YOUR cause by bullshitting men that fighting for YOUR cause is fighting for THEIR cause, which is not factually true. It's the same tactic that feminists use when they are saying that men all have to be feminists because "feminism helps men too!". No it fucking doesn't, they just gaslighting men into fight wars for women believing that they are fighting for themselves, that's all there is to it.

[–]Clockw0rk 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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