Question Regarding Patriarchy

WeEatBabies · 2023-07-06T00:48:53+00:00

If re-incarnation was a thing, and I would be re-born at a random place and time, but I get to choose my gender, I would pick woman, anywhere in the world at any time.

For examples :

Middle ages : Men drafted to wars, because some king wants to reconquer France or something, at least as a woman you get to live.

Norway, 2000s, that's just a no brainer, woman 100%, unneeded affirmative action, plus false grape allegations to bring in tons of cash.

Middle eastern country in mid-90s, you are either one of 7 wives, or born a man, never know what love is and sent to be a suicide bomber, the odds of being born a rich man are far too low.

Early world, again, I would want to be woman, you are protected and it was way more equalatarian back then than you think.

ElisaSKy · 2023-07-06T01:15:55+00:00

Patriarchy: society run by men for the benefit of men, based not on claimed intent but on what the laws and society actually act like.

Matriarchy: society run by women for the benefit of women, based not on claimed intent but on what the laws and society actually act like.

Our current society is run by men for the benefit of women, based not on claimed intent but on what the laws and society actually act like.

We are one hypothetical election away that would end up swaping enough dicks in parliament with cunnies in parliament to qualify as a mild femdom dystopia without changing a single law.

We are exactly as many legal changes and changes in social attitudes away from being a patriarchy as we are from being an egalitarian society.

If we swap "men" and "women" in the laws and attitudes with each other and don't swap the dicks in parliament, instant patriarchy.

If we completely erase any mention of men and women under the law and under social attitudes on everything but biological function specifically regarding genetics and reproductive organs, instant egalitarian society.

In my experience, dicks in parliament get swapped with different dicks or cunnies in parliament way faster than laws and attitudes change. They swap every X yeah (depending on your country) but laws and attitudes can take decades to change.

ElisaSKy · 2023-07-06T01:04:40+00:00

Depends on who you ask.

If you ask the MRAs of this sub, we'll point out laws that give women many advantages, written in black and white, which kinda casts doubt on the whole "society is hell bent on advantaging men ovr women" idea.

If you ask the feminists lurkers, they'll tell you out that the intent behind a law defines itmore than the law in actual action, and they'll tell you that the only intent that exists regarding men and women is to advantage men over women. Thus, every law is patriarchy because every law is intended to privilege men over women.

Say what you will about it, but the feminisit lurkers have some method to their madness, and they have internally, logically consistent worldview... That only contain two premises based on... Not even on information, I don't fucking know how they came to these conclusions. Fuck, even when I was a feminist, I actually believed in patriarchy based on being all too willing to believe people telling me how horribly the law treated women and not having the idea to actually check the actual laws that were treating the women so badly, at least it was based on evidence, even if that evidence was all forgery... But when I took a look at the laws, and saw they weren't a goddamned prank, I admitted I got punked into believing the feminist lie pretty quickly.

Jukingku · 2023-07-06T02:21:14+00:00

Crazy how people such as yourself have ptsd from accidentally trying to start a conversation with a feminist and getting banned lol

reverbiscrap · 2023-07-06T04:31:02+00:00

'Patriarchy' as imagined by feminists never existed except in fantasy books.

Actual Patriarchy, ie where men are the head of the family, did exist, and ended in the 1830s with the passage of the Women and Infants Act, which gave legal stewardship of the children of the family over to the mother, and away from the father.

BoomTheBear86 · 2023-07-06T08:58:09+00:00

Depends on your definition of Patriarchy. I'd say it has shifted over time.

If we talk about the "classic" definition of systems of government where men hold the power and women are excluded from it, i'd say we are no longer a patriarchy and at least in the west (using the Uk as a reference as that's where I am based), we probably stopped being one the moment female monarchs were allowed into place, which is further back than most people would consider it to have ended. In this period of time only the monarch/nobility held any power at all, so a female monarch would wield infinitely more power than every single man in the country, and their power was really all that mattered at that point because there were no checks on their power. I struggle to see how society could be a patriarchy when a female head-of-state ruled and had no accountability to other bodies.

When parliament was considered an appropriate check to the power of the monarch around the time of Cromwell, society probably went back towards a patriarchy because now a check to the monarch existed and MPs at this point were only men.

In the early 20th century women became eligible to vote and stand as MPs and thus ended this definition of patriarchy because we need to focus on literal ability to wield power here. If we talk about "interests" instead it becomes too murky, because even in the periods of time where men wielded nearly all the power, you can argue female interests were represented in their politics by things such as excluding them from drafts and chivalry culture. So I think definitions of Patriarchy that look at gender interests don't really work because I don't think there has ever been a time where one gender's interests have been promoted to the exclusion of the other consistently; although there may have been disagreement on what those interests were. The modern era probably deviates from this as currently women's issues are very visibly more politically considered than men's and it is considered typical to chase "the woman's vote" but unpopular and taboo to try and appeal specifically to men's interests.

If we take a slightly different definition of Patriarchy, something like "the construction of society founded upon the clearly defined social role of men as providers, leaders, warriors, and women as nurturers, supporters and followers", i'd say that probably was similar to the above definition in terms of transition, although from the early 20th century onwards it faded and transformed into a "pseudo-patriarchy" (which we still occupy) where the part pertaining to women no longer applies but the part applying to men still does. So men are still expected to be capable providers, strong, resilient and warriors, but women are no longer expected to maintain their traditional role. So in that sense we're still within a patriarchy of sorts, but it's a defunct version that doesn't really afford privileges to men, because there is no boon in being expected to lead and provide in a society where nobody else is obligated to be provided for or follow. It just means you incur responsibility without authority or legitimacy. Yet i'd argue men are held to this standard.

TLDR: Definitions determine.

If patriarchy is government formed of men and excluding women, it has ebbed and flowed, formally ending in the early 20th century (In UK) and hasn't applied since.

If patriarchy is construction of society on traditional gender roles that historically put men as leaders of society and held them and women to specific gender roles, this formally ended again early 20th century more to mid 20th century with 2WFeminism, but never truly ended because even today men are still expected to maintain their traditional patriarchal role, but women are no longer expected to maintain theirs, which means the patriarchy in this sense confers little if no actual power to the vast majority of men, it simply incurs responsibilities and expectations of behaviour.

Henchforhire · 2023-07-06T02:04:57+00:00

I think it's a mix of both depending on income bracket.

But my money it's more inline with it being a matriarchy for a good chunk of the population. With how many powerful or rich women let their husbands have a side piece. E.G. in U.S. politics with how many husbands get caught diddling some girl unless they royally screw up they get a divorce.

denisc9918 · 2023-07-06T02:34:13+00:00

from the Oxford Languages

Patriarchy - a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line.

Have a close read of that and convince me that "or government" hasn't just been stuck in there?

Democracies are where the Fkn Feminists live and only Dictatorships have ever had "descent is reckoned through the male line"....

ONLY families were ever a Patriarchy and society flourished during these times.

So-Contribution · 2023-07-06T03:35:00+00:00

You should probably start by explaining what exactly you mean by "patriarchy".

Wylanderuk · 2023-07-06T17:03:19+00:00

You are not going to get banned in here for asking questions, its not a feminist sub.

But yeah at times wealthy people had more rights than anybody else, be man or woman. so a out and out patriarchy? Yeah if a common man could be controlled by a noblewoman? Then no not in a long long time.

CrowMagpie · 2023-07-06T21:07:35+00:00

Please do not ban me for this.

Insert Black Panther 'we don't do that here' meme.

CrowMagpie · 2023-07-06T22:22:17+00:00

I've read this online before, but here's what patriarchy means to me:

It's conspiracy theory. It goes something like this:

Don't you see, man? It's all connected, man!

The patriarchy owns the lizard people. The lizard people run the military-industrial complex; the military-industrial complex is connected to the Jewish cabal . They're connected to the newspapers.

Japanese for newspaper is 'shinbon', because the shinbon is connected to Nippon. Nippon is connected to Taiwan. Taibon is connected to the hip-bone. The hip-bone is connected to the back bone. The back bone is connected to the shoulder bone. The shoulder bone is connected to the neck bone. The neck bone is connected to the head bone.

The head bone, man! The HEAD bone!

Don't you see, this goes right to the top?!!!

... at least, that's how I see it.

Main-Tiger8593 · 2023-07-06T03:35:49+00:00

would say the western world was a patriarchy "rule of conservative/religious fathers" for a short period of time as we had to tackle human rights... i think around 1800-1900 roughly but since then it is gone in the west but still there in most muslim countries... nowadays you can choose if you want to work or nurture the children in a relationship and religion is seperated from the government mostly for a good reason else the pope would rule over all people etc... the whole patriarchy narrative is about paternalism like protecting women without their consent...

women in the industrial age

history of womens voting rights

WhereProgressIsMade · 2023-07-06T16:16:17+00:00

It depends too much on which definition of "patriarchy" you're using.

Leaving an inheritance/estate/title to the eldest son even if the firstborn was a daughter was certainly practiced and is now mostly gone.

Coverture was a thing for a time - the husband had legal authority over his household (but was responsible for his wife's debts and crimes instead of her).

One feminist definition of patriarchy I read pointed to men's desire to know he is the father of "his" children as the root cause of patriarchy and patriarchal systems were built up to try to ensure he could reasonably know. In theory we have DNA tests for that now, but a lot of feminists seem to want to have the right to keep the man in the dark (e.g. France). Seems only fair that both biological parents should get to know for sure, so if that's patriarchy, I'm for it.

Often feminists "use patriarchy" to mean a systematic way to oppress women and advantage men and that women have had it worse than men throughout history. I just don't see it. The only way that works is if they only look at the top (kings and nobles vs commoner women) and ignore the male commoners. Men are more likely to throw other men under the bus than women. If you looked at the median life experience of a man vs woman, life sucked for both.

Punder_man · 2023-07-06T22:11:38+00:00

OP, before answering your question could you perhaps provide the definition you use for "The Patriarchy"?

Because once you have defined your term we can more accurately answer your question

For me I assume the feminist interpretation / definition which boils down to "A system setup by men to benefit men at the cost / oppression of women"

Now to answer your question.I will not deny that in the past our society was indeed more Patriarchal where in most if not all the power was held by men (Nobles, The Church, etc)But the problem I and many in the MRA have with the idea of us still living within that sort of system today is that it doesn't make sense from and evidential standpoint.

For example, if we truly lived in a system designed to benefit men and disadvantage / oppress women..

Then women would have NEVER gotten the right to vote, own land, be educated etc.. because that would run contrary to the idea behind the system.
False rape accusations would not exist because it would be a woman's duty to submit to the will / desires of men.
Divorce would not result in men getting the short end of the stick (Alimony, Child support etc)
More funding would be spend on health issues affecting men than women (Prostate cancer would receive waaaaaaaaaay more funding than breast cancer)
Men would not get longer prison sentences than women

Now, many in this sub will agree with feminists that we do live within a system.
However we do not agree that this system is so one sided as to simply benefit men and oppress women.

The system is designed to benefit the top 1% of people (Men AND Women) at the expense of the remaining 99%
Most of us would agree we live within an Oligarchy in which the rich hold the power and use it to maintain their positions of power at the expense of the rest of us.

But feminists don't want to hear a bar of it because that would disrupt if not destroy the narrative they've been pushing for decades about how every single issue women face in today's world is the fault of men.

Title	Question Regarding Patriarchy
Author	FoolioTheGreat
Upvotes	1
Comments	41
Date	July 5, 2023 11:04 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14rqify/question_regarding_patriarchy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/question-regarding-patriarchy.1224478 https://theredarchive.com/post/1224478

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