As an MRA, I don't believe in supporting incels. Both incels and feminists are toxic.

Pandameic_Candid · 2023-10-15T12:17:21+00:00

I hate "incels" word so much, you get called incel for everything these days, if you have different opinion they call you incel. But when they call you incel all of a sudden you won an argument.

Capn--Flint · 2023-10-15T12:44:02+00:00

While I certainly agree that there's men that take the MRM to an unhealthy extreme, then I still gotta say that there's a lot of fallacies in your thinking here.

The term incel is indeed meaningless and pretty much always used as an insult or personal attack. If we look at the literal meaning of the word, then it just means that the person is celibate without wanting to be, and I fail to see how that's relevant to anything. If you mean that the label incel describes a certain radical ideology or mentality, then I'd say that it's a misnomer and that there are much better ways to describe these people. But either way, I think it's odd that you begin by refusing to acknowledge the term incel as legitimate but then go on to use it as if it's a proper term with a definite meaning.

Professor Sam Vaknin said incels are covert narcissists in this video, around the 1 hr 9 minute mark. I agree with Professor Vaknin because he has studied narcissistic personality disorder for 25+ years.

This is an appeal to authority and there is no guarantee that he's right in that just because he's been at it for 25 years. It also seems like a gross generalization to say that all incels are narcissists. I certainly don't consider it an convincing argument that one professor claims that this is the case.

However, it is difficult to tell the difference between incels (covert narcissists) and lonely men. Covert narcissists also have loneliness, depression, and anxiety.

What makes you think it's difficult to tell the difference? Being lonely and being narcissistic is vastly different and it's really a spurious claim that the two groups are so alike that it's hard telling them apart. Sounds like bias to me. There is a lot of people that are lonely, depressed and anxious, but that doesn't mean that they have anything in common besides from that. Correlation does not equal causation. Besides, you can be lonely without being depressed or anxious, even if you're at a higher risk to suffer from those mental health issues if you're lonely.

So I agree that it won't do a lonely man any good to identify as an incel, but I reject your claim that lonely men have a lot in common with narcissists. It's spurious and it casts an unnecessary shadow of suspicion on lonely men.

63daddy · 2023-10-15T13:14:11+00:00

The term literally stands for involuntary celibate To assume anything more than that is just that: an assumption.
It has most certainly become an insult at any man one wants to insult, celebrate or not, which goes back to point 1: you can’t assume anything by the label.

DocShane00611 · 2023-10-15T14:07:08+00:00

congrats you said the "incel" word do you want an award for your bravery?

Altruistic-Cold-7074 · 2023-10-15T17:05:43+00:00

You're falling for a media strawman. No man can be an Incel if he has $100 in his possession. Let me be more blunt, every woman has a price, someone you are calling an Incel just doesn't want to pay that price.

Let me be even more blunt, I traveled to Bali recently and met a few women from Facebook (Very fine beautiful Balinese women). The first one I met was a surfing instructor with a fitness body. I took her out for drinks and completely failed to hit it off with her. I was talking about my failure with another girl and she just told me to offer her some money, I had just been to reserved to try that ploy. I went back and offered her something for her time and had a great time at the hotel. The rest of my trip was fantastic, I met 5 more incredibly beautiful women.

If I had adopted an Incel attitude I would have returned disappointed. Rent, Lease, or Buy, they all have some price. It's just up to you to decide what price you are willing to pay. If you were Elon Musk you could have any movie star.

g1455ofwater · 2023-10-15T20:47:19+00:00

You are a hate monger not a MRA. Men's rights would be no different than feminists if they don't fight for incels. You are advocating for hate.

asdxdlolxd · 2023-10-15T15:07:57+00:00

According to your line of reasoning, the correct way to separate narcisists from actual incels/lonely people would be to see if they try to get a date or just don't

Seems pretty easy

Upset_Cupcake_7242 · 2023-10-15T18:57:00+00:00

People have sex for power fantasy. So naturally, in the age when everything is hypersexualized and it is easier to find porn and swinger groups than it is to find friends, surely you're going to have reality as it is now.

Why would someone go and have a needle up their arm to get a tattoo? For appeal, for power fantasy, to make a statement that you're "as cool as" the criminals who get tattoos to impress other "alphas".

Why would someone go out and risk getting babies, diseases or be killed/tortured/kidnapped just to have sex? Why is there this whole animalistic system of "impressing your mate" with a particular dance, possessions, et cetera?

Sex is built on gender roles, even if you look at gay relationships. There is going to be a passive and an active person. There'll be someone who is below and someone who is above. The point is to feel stronger, more socially valuable, more important than anyone actually is. It's gotten so ridiculous that saying that you feel lonely = wanting to have sex.

If someone thinks about sex more than they think about going to the bathroom, there's two scenarios: they are addicted to it; they are using it for power fantasy instead of actually having strength and some inner world.

Narcissism is very overblown. There are people with clinical narcissism and that's the only narcissism that anyone can have, there's no other narcissism. If you are narcissistic, it's VERY noticeable. I've met narcissists. They make everything in the room about them and only them. Once you stop playing their games, they move on to other targets.

What happened is dumb people who will always be dumb regardless of their "achievements", IQ levels or the amount of words or grammar rules they know, have figured out a way to pretend that they're not dumb by using fancy words as insults. Incel, narcissist, idiot, autistic, et cetera - all are insults because an average person isn't qualified to make a diagnosis, and even if they are, doctors make mistakes all the time. So you have inherently dumb people using insults that sound scientific to make themselves feel better, that's kind of all there is to it.

mrkpxx · 2023-10-16T05:54:55+00:00

As an MRA they cannot ignore or criminalize 30% or more of young men. It is their duty to develop a benevolent perspective for these men. Show compassion.

Claptrap-94 · 2023-10-15T14:24:46+00:00

Incel just means pretending to have a choice to be celibate.

aigars2 · 2023-10-16T07:49:40+00:00

Being incel and feminist is two different definitions. It's comparing apples with orangesand and making apples oranges.

Sam__Toucan · 2023-10-17T11:40:55+00:00

"I'm no incel, just ask ur mom "

/sarcasm

mrID007 · 2023-10-18T03:13:54+00:00

This makes no sense. You should be supporting men, incel or not. What people do not realize is that there are far more incels and sexless men out there than you think. They are quietly doing the jobs that support the functions and underpinnings of modern society.

Title	As an MRA, I don't believe in supporting incels. Both incels and feminists are toxic.
Author	hotpotato128
Upvotes	0
Comments	30
Date	October 15, 2023 11:51 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/178dqwv/as_an_mra_i_dont_believe_in_supporting_incels/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/as-an-mra-i-dont-believe-in-supporting-incels-both.1235196 https://theredarchive.com/post/1235196

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