So I notice there's no good seduction material and guides about first dates.

rmbarnes · 2011-10-21T08:41:49+00:00

I've noticed this. Day 2s are my weak point, yet there's very little material about them. This is interesting seeing as day2s are often longer than the initial pickup. I guess dates aren't as cool to write about as cold approaching.

absurdconcept · 2011-10-21T08:22:49+00:00

Logistics are important. Since I started going on dates here in Japan, I've noticed a few things... For first dates, at least:

Multi-part dates: Most dates should have multiple parts to them. Window shopping here, dinner/drinks there, and end at a quiet bar, for instance. This is advantageous for a number of reasons. It shows you have the ability to carry out a plan, have an idea of what you want, and have a variety of interests. It adds variety to the date, and can bail you out of stuffy situations if part of the date goes stale. It can give you more situations to work with in terms of things to talk about on the date. If the date goes well, then it gives both of you the impression that you've had multiple dates, or at least experienced a greater number of things together. You can look back and talk about all of these things later, and you'll realize, "Oh yeah, we DID do that, didn't we?"
Location: Don't go to places where your girl can be distracted by other guys. Why take her to a noisy bar with lots of dudes, unless all of those dudes are social proofing you? Not that she'll go after other dudes, but you don't want to have to deal with AMOGs and other unwanted attention on the date.
If the date is going well... wine on a blanket in a park or by a river is not as cheesy as it sounds. Make her laugh, you're both drinking, and it's quite nice. Of course, if the date is bombing, you should opt to skip this part of the date if you had it planned. You don't have to explain that this is part of the date, you can just do it.
Don't pay for her shit. I mean you can, but insisting on it is definitely too much. Just taking out your wallet and paying for it is probably the best idea, and if you see her take out her wallet, then good. Give her a chance to get her wallet out without being weird about it. I personally don't like girls who expect the guy to pay. My last girlfriend (months ago in America) expected the guy to pay, but I could tell she liked me from the start, and she eventually started offering to pay because she had a conscience about me paying all the time. Then again, I made a lot more money than she did. I had a terrible date here in Japan with a 19-year-old girl who hardly put any effort to have fun on the date, partly due to the language barrier, partly (in my opinion) because she was pretty and could get other guys, and partly because I didn't have her hooked. She probably made a lot more money than I did, but probably spent quite a bit on school/shopping... but even so, it pissed me off that she would expect me to pay while she didn't contribute (with any effort to have a good time) to the date at all. If the girl doesn't offer to pay her end of things, it communicates to me that she thinks she's higher value than I am, and that she thinks I should feel privileged for taking her out. Basically, to me, she's being snotty. I'm not there to admire her -- she's not a celebrity whose time I'm monopolizing. Of course, this can be situational, but her willingness to pay is important... to me, anyway.
Plan on having a stage of the date being in a quiet place. Especially over here, you prolly won't get a k-close unless it's behind a closed door. Feel free to abandon this part if the date isn't going well and you don't think it will be beneficial.
YOU plan the date and call the shots. Unless there's a potential problem or conflict, just tell her where to meet you. For example, "Do you like seafood?" Maybe she hates it or is allergic -- personally, I'm not a fan of seafood. "You like opera?" Not that opera is an ideal first date (I'm not a fan of opera), but it's important for her to know the proper attire in that case.
Don't follow her everywhere. If you go window shopping (only for men's clothing... I wouldn't go shopping for women's clothing unless she suggests picking out lingerie for later that night or something absurd like that), don't be afraid to browse for yourself.
Kino: ...while walking, or while doing anything, for that matter. I sit beside my dates at dinner. If she sits down first, I sit next to her. Otherwise I just say "come here." Girls here in Japan are very passive for the most part. If you kino, it often won't be encouraged nor rejected... so more kino! I personally need to keep escalating til I get rejected, but it's kinda tough since I can basically escalate until things are visibly sexual to other people (kissing, hand traveling really far up the leg), due to the culture. At that point, I don't know if the resistance is due to her being shy, or her not wanting it. It's more often been the former.
Don't meet her friends. If she thinks it's a great idea to go to a bar or place where she knows people, don't go with that plan. Girls can be heavily influenced by their friends' opinions. You need to gain all of her friends' approval, which is a bad position. That's not a date, it's a group interview. A practicum. A date should be two people... Early dates, anyway. She may think it's a good idea cause she's excited about you, but if her friends are less than thrilled with you, you might easily get sunk. Likewise, if you run into one of your friends, don't spend any more than a few minutes around him/her before ejecting and continuing your date.
Be playful, make her laugh. No need to talk about super serious things for more than 10 or 15 minutes, I think. If you do... Even if you connect, it can make things more difficult to manage. Serious topics are important, but just in moderation at first. In my opinion, I think it's good to ground yourself on the date and let her know that you have a serious side to your life, and that you're more than just a steaming, sexy pile of charm. At some point, if it comes up, I might say something like, "Yeah I LOVE teaching... teaching kids takes a lot of energy so it kinda sucks that way, but it's still a lot of fun and worth it." This is something that's in the present and relevant. Talking about a past childhood experience doesn't necessarily communicate something very concrete about me in the present.
Have fun! Dates should be fun. In this sense, being yourself is important.. Not in AFC ways, but in terms of being honest with what you like, and entertaining yourself on the date. On the date I mentioned earlier with the 19-year-old, we went to a really quiet bar (empty) bar where I knew the bartender a little... He had a violin with him, and I asked him about it. He played classical music, and I spent the next hour appreciating his playing and talking to him about music in general, without much regard for the girl I was with. Too bad his violin-playing was wasted on a non-romantic situation. :)

Edit: Posted this from my phone. Added formatting and more reasoning now that I'm home.

2011-10-21T16:08:23+00:00

Have the logistics under control. You come up with the date idea. It should be relatively inexpensive, comfortable first date environment, and convenient for her (e.g. don't make her walk for a half-hour, esp. if she'll be wearing heels). Make sure to tell her what attire to wear, and remind her to bring her appetite if you plan on having food.

Location, location, location. Single location dates do work well. I usually location hop on the second date. If you plan on this, make sure the location is comfortable and suitable for good, prolonged conversation. (Personal example: quiet, slightly classy martini bar).

Location hopping works too. But again, lead and control the logistics. You suggest when you head to the next place - it should happen naturally, not because you ran out of things to talk about and you're in a panic. Make sure the places you will be going are close together, that they'll be open when you arrive, etc.

IMO, changing locations often does make the transition to your place easier (but if she's really into you, it shouldn't matter.) As a personal example, I've done coffee shop --> new art exhibition in town --> gelato shop --> my place.

Attitude. I've found that being genuine is most important, but I disagree with the notion that you should "just be yourself." I've had the greatest first dates when I arrived with a strong frame and inner game, and applied some basic principles of game.

I use push-pull and tease her a bit, but lighter than when I first met her - if this is a Day 2; you should have already qualified her, right? So don't go overboard. But I believe adding a bit of outer game like that keeps you congruent with the man she remembers meeting, and helps you project a calm and confident attitude.

Kino, on the other hand, I tend to escalate much more quickly on the Day 2. Obviously, tailor your escalation to her feedback. But if you escalated moderately well when you first met her, you should be able to push the envelope a bit faster.

Example: On a first date with an HB9, I offered my arm as soon as we began walking, and boom, I was escorting her across town. I led her through indoor spaces by lightly placing a hand on the small of her back. I brushed her arm and shoulders while talking - she was receptive, so I then I would lightly touch the outside of her thighs, and so on. Just be confident in your interactions and judge her comfort level.

Conversation. Talk about what comes naturally, but don't be afraid to lead the conversation. Ask her about any topic; she's here to be with you, after all. Ask her interesting and open-ended questions that allow her to talk about her passions and interests. And for goodness sake, actually listen to her. Women appreciate when you remember what they've told you - especially when you use that knowledge when you plan your next date, or buy her a small gift related to her hobby, etc.

Money. I typically pay for the first date. I won't say anything; I'll just grab the bill and pay. If she objects to me paying in full, I won't be stubborn, and I'll split the bill with her. If she wants to be polite, she may say "Are you sure it's okay?" I'll respond along the lines of "It's no problem. How about you can get it next time?"

Honestly, I don't think paying is a big deal. I typically use a healthy deal of gentleman's game to begin with, and I enjoy being chivalrous. People will disagree with me, but I believe occasional chivalry is sexy when paired with a strong frame and well-invested confidence. You don't hold the door for her because you're a spineless doormat of a man. You do it because you have the power to make her comfortable (and turned on), and you're leading her.

My two cents.

RedErin · 2011-10-21T16:02:42+00:00

Conversation Threading <---(Hey mods, this should be in the faq.)

Kino

Multiple locations

Teasing

PyouA · 2011-10-21T20:29:17+00:00

There is a lot of good stuff in these comments.

What I usually do is just have a pretty standard date planned and have two or three pretty awesome/unique ideas about what I could do after once I gauge how everything is going and figure out what kind of girl she is. For whatever reason I've had much more success when I do the standard date first (lunch, coffee, walking around, shopping, etc.) then bounce directly to a more laid-back atmosphere (beach bonfire with friends, cliff jumping, party, watch fireworks on my boat, etc.) than vice versa. Same goes for bridging between first and second dates - "formal" first (in the sense of it being stereotypical - you don't have to dress nice and go to Le Cirque or anything) then laid back/original second. Usually bouncing from formal to laid back on the same date has worked best though, so aim for that.

Also, when I say what type of girl - I usually try to push her to expand her horizons. I'll bring the laid back girl to a big party and the up-tight girl cliff jumping - it's good when they feel like they get to be "who they really are" with you.

SpiderFan · 2011-10-21T21:52:16+00:00

Awesome stuff. Good thread

2011-10-21T12:59:37+00:00

Read Double Your Dating by David DeAngelo.

WcO · 2011-10-21T19:06:13+00:00

I've had a girlfriend for a month. We see each other 3-4 times a week. I haven't taken her on a "date" yet.

Obviously, not all situations lend themselves to this style, but whenever possible, I try to avoid going out on "dates".

mytuppence · 2011-10-21T13:05:24+00:00

I hate to be an ass, but you are wrong. http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/ctoxh/new_to_seddit_check_here_first/

Edit: So downvote me for info that's actually there...

sovietsrule · 2011-10-21T13:38:33+00:00

Be yourself.

Now there's no need to lie about yourself or do things just to get into her pants!

Problem: Solved

Title	So I notice there's no good seduction material and guides about first dates.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	42
Comments	19
Date	October 21, 2011 5:36 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/ljmlj/so_i_notice_theres_no_good_seduction_material_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/so-i-notice-theres-no-good-seduction-material-and.1324082 https://theredarchive.com/post/1324082

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