A few pieces of seddit conventional wisdom I disagree with

RandianHero · 2014-03-10T17:51:26+00:00

The problem I see with this is when people take your "don't be a robot" advice, they usually don't dial back the amount of fucks given enough, and they're still bitching and moaning about really stupid shit. Thing is, the list of times that it's a good idea to let your emotions loose is extremely short. The rest of the time, you need to keep that shit in check. You may not be able to control how you feel, but you sure as shit can control how you react to those feelings. Otherwise, you're just another whiny gamma male who loses his shit over nothing.
In situations like this, I refer to the "back burner" policy. Keep them around as friends, continue being attractive, and check back with them later. I've lost count of the number of girls I've been with who weren't interested at first, but who I ended up with later due to changing circumstances. In the time that you're not seeing them, you can see other people.
I haven't seen a lot of advice advocating arbitrary timetables or numbers of texts, since it's so obviously stupid and nobody with any experience would honestly recommend it.
Conversations should be give and take. But as a rule, she's going to be doing most of the talking anyway. This is perfectly fine. If the conversation takes a direction where I can tell a funny story or relate in some way, that's when I'll talk about myself. Otherwise, let her do the work.

RoquefortCheese · 2014-03-10T17:44:03+00:00

So basically, sedditors just need to keep in mind that most pieces of advice are general summary statements, not capsules or rules.

social_scrying · 2014-03-10T17:52:28+00:00

Im going to try to tackle your disinterests one at a time, there is a lot to sort through.

Why its wrong: A lot of guys interpret "not giving a fuck" as being a completely emotionless robot.

"not giving a fuck" is not actually a good representation of what is actually effective in pickup. This mindset is given as general advice to people new to seduction, with the main purpose being that most guys are TOO attached to the first few girls they feel an emotional connection to. It is meant to compensate a common habit and sticking point for most guys as a starting point. A common analogy to this mindset is the car you are driving loses traction on snow and the nose of your car drifts to the right. In order to correct the misalignment, you should probably turn the wheel to the left to compensate. This advice given is good for some, bad for others. What many PUAs come to realize is that building an emotional connection with a girl can be a very effective way to seduce her, but it is a double edged sword. She will invest in you while you invest in her. The difference in both investments is how the individual interprets and assigns value to that investment.

Most shit tests are innocent jabs by a girl that she doesn't even understand she's doing. But sometimes girls will lob at you deluxe shit tests where they know they are being an asshole, and the correct response isn't to "agree and amplify" but to be like "look, you're being rude, and if you continue to act this way, I'm leaving."

I agree with this, however, "shit tests" is a topic that is very much based on the situation. The hands down best way to deal with shit tests is to truely be empathetic, however, this piece of advice doesnt help guys who have no idea what that means or how to use it. A shit test is a girls own way of push-pull, so to speak. If you have a strong frame and can empathize with her underlying emotions, you can clearly determine if she is playfully pushing you, or seriously pushing you. Most guys, however, don't have the social acuity to differentiate between the two all the time. In this case, should you default to? Telling a girl you dont appreciate her comment when her mood is light hearted and playful will kill the vibe. Telling a girl you dont appreciate her comment when the mood is serious may fix the vibe. A playful response to her playful push will amplify the vibe. A playful response to a serious push may kill the vibe. What do you do? I would say the default is to assume her comment is a playful push, simply because most of the time, you havent had enough time to creep her out enough to elicit a hard push.

But if a girl rejects by saying "I have a boyfriend" or "let's just be friends" she is immediately telling you her interest level is low (at least less than 50), and it will take a lot of work to get her interest level back up. So why waste your time?

Because pickup is process oriented, not outcome oriented. Nothing you do in pickup is a waste, as long as you are acquiring more experience under your belt whether it be a good or bad result. In fact, I would argue the most valuable experience does not come from the girls who are easy to pull, but from the ones who say they have boyfriends and arent interested. If you can get a girl who is completely not interested in you to like you in a timely manner, you are clearly on point with your game. If it is easy sex you are looking for, go play the numbers game indefinitely, however, this is not necessarily the best way to get better. For this reason, many mPUAs emphasize burning your sets to the ground, as you maximize your reference points.

Waiting X minutes before you text a girl back is you basically trying to fake having an interesting, busy life. In fact, having the luxury of timing your texts is evidence that you are leading a pretty boring and shitty life.

yes. This is on point. Waiting to text a girl back breaks one of my golden texting rules: dont over think things.

A conversation should be her talking about herself.

I like to break the conversation process down into two main ideas: rapport building and sexual tension building. Builing rapport is not inherently sexual. It is a way to connect to another human being via commonalities and shared experiences. This is how you build a connection with anyone. Building sexual tension, however, is strictly sexual (obvioulsy). The most effective means of builiding sexual tension is to be physical (kino ladder). If you listen to a lot of PUAs interactions with girls, the conversations are pretty fucking boring. Its normal rapport building (talking about shared experiences). The physical part of the conversation, however, is how PUAs build sexual tension (as well as splicing in some sexual comments here and there).

First of all, making the entire conversation about her is supplicating and beta

This is situational. If a girl already likes you (you have already demonstrated social value/abundance), she is going to want to let you experience her in hopes of you liking what you see and hear. In this case, the girl is probably going to be doing the talking. If the girl doesnt already like you, she has no motivation to invest in you. You need to give her a reason to invest. If you approach a girl and initiate a conversation with a strong frame, you are demonstrating a buyers mindset, which is an attractive frame to be in. Dominant males approach potential mates to see if they are mating material. By letting a girl share her experiences with you, she is investing in you. By sharing your experiences with her, you are investing in her. This trading of experiences and investment is called rapport building, like I said is not inherently sexual. Learning to enjoy listening to and empathize with other peoples experiences will make the process much more enjoyable and relaxed, thus more successful.

Also, part of building attraction is that she has to feel an emotional connection with you. She can't feel an emotional connection with you if you don't say anything about yourself.

I basically said the same thing before I read what you said. Agreed.

chris1227 · 2014-03-10T20:42:50+00:00

Agree with all of these. Can I add one:

Next her.

Why its right: There are of course certain situations in which a girl is clearly not interested, and the guy is wasting his time trying to force a situation that isnt gonna happen.

Why its wrong: Its just not constructive advice. Its lazy, and anyone can say it. Its used way too much. Every single FR and question has one person just telling him to "next" the girl and give up. You grow a lot more by overcoming a small obstacle or setback rather than just giving up entirely.

KennyFuckingPowers · 2014-03-10T22:26:07+00:00

Overcomplicating things. That's this subreddit in a nutshell.

HappyJerk · 2014-03-10T18:13:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2014-03-11T05:41:21+00:00

Good post, really like it. I honestly think the reason why people do 1, 2 and 3 in the first place is because, originally, they were:

1) giving way too many fucks

2) texting way too much

3) never listening to the girl at all

So these trends are actually a kind of over correction in the other direction. Remember, a lot of the people on this sub began as hopeless womenless nerds (myself included, not trying to be an ass).

It seems to me like the "beginner" level is just getting to these first 1,2 and 3 points. Then "advanced" level is pulling it back a little bit so you're a normal human being again. Honestly PUA can feel really unnatural at the beginning because its the opposite of what you've always done, so I bet people will feel a lot more comfortable once they dial it back a bit (after getting there in the first place, of course).

rusty84 · 2014-03-10T17:55:15+00:00

you shouldn't get too emotionally invested in a girl before she gets emotionally invested in you.

How do you genuinely stay less emotionally invested?

I was on a date this weekend, and I told myself that I would stay less emotionally invested than she is, but idk what happened. I was not really into her at first, but throughout the date, we both opened up, and by the end, I was more interested in her than was in me, so she lost interest and left earlier than planned because it was really obvious that I wanted her to stay...

ben0wn4g3 · 2014-03-10T21:41:01+00:00

women are interested in men who are less emotionally invested in them than they are

So herein lies the problem, it's one thing to pick up a hot chick and get laid, for me anyway, but if you then start to like them, and emotionally invest, you're going to put them off? This is kind of shit.

Scorproyale · 2014-03-12T03:15:51+00:00

Not a bad post, but your bit on texting was pretty silly. The whole point of texting is that the person you're talking to has no idea what you're doing, so waiting between texts does not look needy at all. There's no way she can know the reasoning behind the pauses unless you're pausing for the same amount of time with each text. I can tell you personally that for me this was a big problem, and intentionally pausing between responses, responding with less length and less frequently has helped me immensely. Even when I am actually busy, I would often prioritize text messages and for people like me it's very important that I remind myself how silly that is, and that I need to take a pause and act a little less interested over text.

Title	A few pieces of seddit conventional wisdom I disagree with
Author	HappyJerk
Upvotes	61
Comments	17
Date	March 10, 2014 4:24 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/20220w/a_few_pieces_of_seddit_conventional_wisdom_i/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/a-few-pieces-of-seddit-conventional-wisdom-i.1367307 https://theredarchive.com/post/1367307

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