Is TRP an ethical framework?

FuriousMouse · 2013-11-03T23:00:47+00:00

When I was in university, my economics professor said. "Economics is not about 'right' or 'wrong', that is not what this course is about. Economics is about how things work in reality" and I will teach you that.

[deleted] · 2013-11-03T20:24:59+00:00

It's more of an empirical egocentrism theory. You see what works for you. On the other hand, all knowledge is worthwhile so if you disregard red pill you're simply doing yourself a disservice because if you do disagree with red pill on general principle you're forgetting the first rule of warfare....know thy enemy.

steadymotion · 2013-11-03T23:06:45+00:00

Ethics? Lol.

Thinking in terms of right and wrong is not best. Better is thinking in terms of effective and ineffective.

TRP is about the latter.

redbluepilling · 2013-11-03T22:37:15+00:00

"Taking the red pill" is to "see observable reality." In effect, it is to look at data.

What different factions do with it is a response to observable reality or how they interpret the said data:

The PUAs aim to increase their ability to attract and have sex with women, or find a woman worthy of a relationship.
The MGTOWs shun women altogether and drop out of the game
The MRAs fight against feminism et al to improve men's rights
The Christians see the church being co-opted by feminism/secularism and attempt to resist that influence by going back to the Bible's patriarchical roots.
The married attempt to improve their relationships, or they leave them altogether.
The recently divorced typically join the ranks of the PUAs, MGTOWs, MRAs, or Christians.

As many have said, the red pill is not ethical and cannot be ethical in and of itself. The red pill is just to see the generalizations of human nature and intersex relationships. The responses to such observations is where you can potentially make ethical inferences.

drrrrrr · 2013-11-03T21:28:38+00:00

Short answer: TRP is an attempt to be objective, and with all objective ideas, it's how you use it. Like all fields of self-development, it's all on you which direction you choose to develop in. Christianity is an ethical framework by and large, much of the bible is good life lessons for conducting a moral life, yet you can use that framework to justify evil and good.

If that sounds like a cop out to you, the good old "no information is ethical or not, it's how you use it", then fine, it is.

Here's a longer answer. Society defines certain ideals as virtues and certain other ideals as anti-virtues. Selfishness is an anti-virtue, supplication to women is a virtue, etc. So it provides it's own "ethical framework", a religion of sorts for how people ought to behave.

TRP would say, "this framework is neither ethical nor effective." TRP then creates its own virtues and anti-virtues based around the concept of maximizing one's utility and happiness in a heavily flawed society. So in this regard, TRP is certainly saying "here is how you ought to behave".

However, the reason TRP in my mind does not quite qualify as an ethical framework in the purely academic sense of the term is because TRP is not saying "here is how you ought to behave to be GOOD", it's saying "here is how you ought to behave to be effective."

If you believe what is effective is good / right / just, then you can go ahead and believe TRP is an ethical framework. If you believe, like I do, that what is effective is good / right / just SOMETIMES, then TRP does not quite qualify as an ethical framework.

AboveAFC · 2013-11-03T22:16:19+00:00

The Red Pill is only a set of generalizations about our biological drives to mate. We have, through observation and study (where available), tried to understand how male and female attraction works in humans today. We have look at how the world truly works, not through socially determined lenses of "bad or good".

There is no ethical to RP. It's just observable nature. There is no "ought to" when a shark eats someone, it's just their nature. It has no evil intent. It has no moral qualms. It just IS.

Same with RP. It's just information about how the world works. What you decide to do with it, is up to you.

wakeupzombie · 2013-11-03T23:35:23+00:00

Crowley? Red pill! Love is the law, love under will.

[deleted] · 2013-11-04T00:39:06+00:00

No.

It focuses on observing trends in human behavior, primarily those behaviors that are not learned (e.g., you don't have to read a book to discover sexuality and attraction), while withholding judgment.

In an overly simplified sense, ethics is used to judge behavior against standards established by society.

randarrow · 2013-11-04T13:03:11+00:00

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of ethics. Value systems are the study of how one "ought" to behave. Ethics is one set of classes of value systems. Morals/honor being two others. Ethics is often interchangeable with or a superset of morals, but in this case we many need to draw a distinction. Normally I define ethics as a system of values relating to happiness. Morals as a system of values relating to 'good' and 'bad'. Honor as a system of values relating to justice. Others also define ethics as a social system relating to right and wrong conduct, where morals are individual habits and perceptions.

On the first definition, ethics as a system of values relating to happiness: Yes, TRP is ethical. Although TRP guidelines are focused on a subset of happiness, TRP guidelines are focused on the happiness of both men and women, with the premise that men can not be happy being taken advantage of and toyed with, and that women can not be happy with a man who provides no drama/confidence/enthusiasm/vigor.

On the second definition, ethics as a moral philosophy, is a branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending and recommending concepts of right and wrong conduct.. Once again, although TRP is an incomplete philosophy and is not a formal philosophy, TRP is non-the-less a type of philosophy regarding right and wrong conduct. It is wrong in TRP to over indulge women's need for attention. It is right in TRP to use behavioral psychology to look for happiness.

Behaving ethically simply means we are concerned about the happiness of the people involved, or have a philosophy regarding right and wrong which guides actions; both are true here. If someone is behaving ethically in one sense but not another, where they are following the guildelines of the TRP ethos, but not concerned about the happiness of the people involved, then possible they are behaving unethically. But, that has no bearing on whether TRP is ethical or not.

The definition of ethics doesn't specify right and wrong for what. And, although ethics are a social system for conduct regarding right and wrong, there are no right or wrong social systems. Then, using myfriendscanknows definition, TRP is very much a study on how one ought to behave.

30years · 2013-11-04T02:03:18+00:00

TRP, to me, is more like moral particularism. TRP gives an individual the ability to see things from a hopefully realistic perspective. This allows one to look at a particular circumstance and make a conscious decision about what is the "right" or "moral" thing to do based on all of his personal values and understandings.

Some people try to codify any new information they receive. "This is always to handle X" or "you should never do Y". This typically comes form a narrow understanding of the subject matter.

TRP isn't rules and doesn't define the morality of a situation, it is an understanding of how the world functions and gives a discerning person an additional tools to make better life decisions.

[deleted] · 2013-11-05T14:19:58+00:00

[permanently deleted]

rp_manifesto · 2013-11-08T20:39:23+00:00

TRP is neutral.

[deleted] · 2013-11-05T14:19:27+00:00

Most folks don't give a shit, but I tend to have the same weird hobby as you, being interested in stuff like this, so I will try:

I think the last 500 years of philosophy are fucked up. I tend towards an Aristotelean kind of view, and TRP seems to be a good fit. Basically it means that the ethical or the good is not silly modern stuff like human rights or utmost respect for each others autonomy or avoiding hurting people at all costs, but fulfilling natural purposes, doing stuff we were born to do, and becoming great in those things i.e. a kind of a virtue ethics, developing virtues or qualities that are a good fit for our natures.

So for example for a horse the good thing, the ethical thing is to develop into a good horse, a fast running, good looking, shiny haired, mare-fucking super stallion.

My online research into how testosterone works, how evolution works, how our large brains made childbirth even more difficult and thus female reproductive investment even bigger resulting in an even bigger hypergamy, and the Ecological Dominance - Social Competition model of human evolution convinced me that the natural purpose of man is to be some kind of a warrior and/or ruler.

This validates the "be unashamedly masculine" part of TRP.

This may not validate the rest like pursuing pussy is bitching about women at the workplace, but I don't care about those. I care about TRP only so far as in rediscovering the primal man in me. I leave the PUA stuff or the MRA stuff to others.

Title	Is TRP an ethical framework?
Author	myfriendscantknow
Upvotes	1
Comments	79
Date	November 3, 2013 8:18 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/1ptsfn/is_trp_an_ethical_framework/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/is-trp-an-ethical-framework.138440 https://theredarchive.com/post/138440

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