Understanding the reverse Bechdel test, and the implications on male disposability

CosmicKeys · 2013-03-19T08:40:53+00:00

NO GOD DAMN WAY!

I just spent last week writing a post I thought was going to be original based on this.... well fuck, may as well post it here. I even came up with a snappy name. You could make a ton of variations on the rules, but the basic gist is the same I was just trying to cleverly mirror it. I also thought about horror movies - the point about them though is that in most cases, the evil is a man and the victim is named and you care about them, so they're not as disposable or invisible.

The catalyst for this was this newspaper article which states "There is no need for a male Bechdel Test, because male characters in movies are usually important and discuss topics other than women". This inability to see men's issues is the essence of male disposability. A man who succeeds is praised, the men who suffers are invisible. If you don't know what the Bechdel test, the lovely Anita Sarkeesian can explain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bLF6sAAMb4s#!

The Bechdeath Test:

Two unnamed women must be killed or abused (verbally or physically)
By something other than a bad man
And no-one must talk about it

The aim of this is not to enjoy the suffering of women, which is often how feminists frame MRA ideas (everything I don't like is rooted in misogyny, right?).

The aim of this is to highlight the apex fallacy that feminists use to portray masculinity as privileged, and femininity as oppressed. Masculinity is a privilege for the hero, but for the legions of men he cuts his path through masculinity is their death sentence. It's not "Patriarchy hurts men too", it's "Patriarchy kills more men than women".

Women walk into the casino of life and are given money they aren't allowed to game with. Men are forced to gamble whether they like it or not, and many lose. Who has it better is not inherent - it is down to the game. In 1917 for example, the odds were not in the favour of those playing the game of war in a muddy trench choking on mustard gas. If life forced you down the tunnel of the "bad guy" because you are male, that is not power. The 93% of men who make up the prison system had no more choice in their statistical anomaly than the large percentage of women led away from STEM fields. Women are not absolved of the effect of their hypoagency just because feminists throw a phrase "toxic masculinity" around.

EleisonJoy · 2013-03-19T14:42:30+00:00

It's not a movie, but Battle Star Galactica passes both the Bechdel test and the reverse.

InsanityManifest · 2013-03-19T07:22:16+00:00

I honestly don't think anyone could answer that without going through hundreds of films.

Perhaps this might be a question better asked of /r/movies?

stopsayingfaggot · 2013-03-19T08:07:37+00:00

Is this an actual thing, or did you just come up with it? Googling "reverse Bechdel test" just came up with the gender flip of the original test.

I have absolutely no idea what proportion of films fail or pass this test, and I won't hazard a guess. But you might be interested to read about some tropes that relate to women dying in stories:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisposableWoman http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLostLenore http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathByChildbirth http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ILetGwenStacyDie http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisposableSexWorker

Just food for thought. I'm not saying that these tropes either support or contradict the point that you're making about male disposability and female preservation.

EDIT to add: Here's another one. It's not specifically gendered, but applies more commonly to women's deaths.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CartwrightCurse

Deansdale · 2013-03-19T08:34:58+00:00

The original test is a stupid idea because it has a pre-set goal to prove which is false even if the answers to the questions are yes or no or whatever. It is like asking 3 questions about reality:

Do women on average have more shoes than men?
Do women on average have more clothes?
Do women on average have more accessories?

Let's call this the "fuckdel test", and if you answer yes to all of them it proves that men are forcefully stripped of their clothes, shoes and stuff.

The parallel is that if there are films in which there are only one or two women, in itself it proves jack shit. Since grrrl power is not mandatory (yet), everyone has the right to make movies about anything they please. There are movies about women and there are movies about men. Most movies involve both. It's not the evil work of some invisible patriarkee.

There are many valid reasons why on average there are more men in movies:

Movies are often about the movers and the shakers, ie. politicians, businessmen, etc., who tend to be men in real life. (This is not caused by sexism by the way.)
Action movies are about soldiers, cops&robbers, etc., who also tend to be men in real life. Of course there's the token powerpuff girl (or two if the lead is female like in Resident Evil) in each and every one of them, but the rest of the crew are still males.
The bad guys are almost always men, because women viewers often don't tolerate women depicted as evil.
Women viewers want to see men on the screen. In romcoms they are necessary (unless lesbian). In most movies specifically targeted at women there are more men because women want it that way. Take Twilight for example: many men are fighting for the hand of the lone heroine. Is Twilight proof that an invisible patriarchy oppresses cinema by putting more men than women on screen? Fuck not.

Etc.

ExpendableOne · 2013-03-19T14:52:33+00:00

Can you name ten movies in which some form of violence isn't depicted against a man? whether it's for comedic, shock or action value?

Omni314 · 2013-03-19T20:47:51+00:00

I like the idea of a reverse bechdel, but this, much like the original, is very flawed and needs a lot of work.

rightsbot · 2013-03-19T06:40:17+00:00

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C0CKPUNCHER · 2013-03-19T08:10:18+00:00

Beaches.

The Stepmom.

My sisters keeper.

James Bond (lots of them).

Etc.

Title	Understanding the reverse Bechdel test, and the implications on male disposability
Author	saturdayraining
Upvotes	6
Comments	20
Date	March 19, 2013 6:38 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1akw7e/understanding-the-reverse-bechdel-test-and-the-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/understanding-the-reverse-bechdel-test-and-the.1608512 https://theredarchive.com/post/1608512

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