Men oppressing themselves- Confirmation bias!

ClaudeKenni · 2013-04-01T08:56:09+00:00

Well to be fair, there is one valid point in that link. None of what is mentioned is 'reverse sexism', it's just sexism. Reverse sexism is just another linguistic trick thats used to try and devalue sexism against men, by trying to argue that it's less important or less prevalent than the sort of sexism women suffer from.

CrossHook · 2013-04-01T12:21:36+00:00

We don't live in a patriarchy so replace the word "patriarchy" with the word "government."

Feminists are not anarchists. They have co-opted the government, not dismantled it.

guest121 · 2013-04-01T11:13:53+00:00

Yes, because men have set up this system, the Patriarchy that hurts them, but they keep doing it anyway just to spite women.

IHaveALargePenis · 2013-04-01T12:46:22+00:00

This whole argument feels like, if someone gets raped but the rapist wears a condom, the rapist isn't actually responsible for the rape, it's the condom's fault.

Do these people even realize how government works? Why they have the right to vote and how to use it?

PierceHarlan · 2013-04-01T12:57:40+00:00

I am getting depressed coming to this site. This sort of thing would be laughed at by middle America. Do these people realize how removed from reality they are? How anti-intellectual they come off sounding? I am sick to death of reading this idiocy.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2013-04-01T14:44:28+00:00

Oh fuck, if there is ANY feminist argument that I hate to the depths of my soul, it is the "masculosexism against men is just 'the patriarchy' and feminism dismantles the patriarchy and thus helps men."

1) "Feminism dismantles the patriarchy" If by 'the patriarchy' you mean 'traditional gender roles,' then whilst feminism has worked on dismantling these traditional gender roles for women (and I support feminism doing this), it hasn't done this for the men. Now, we can't fairly demand feminists do this for us - women have their own issues they need to address after all. But, unfortunately, there are several situations in which feminists (and institutionalized feminist groups) have obstructed men from dismantling the traditional male gender roles (look at how Warren Farrell was treated at the University of Toronto). Additionally, there are situations where feminists have reinforced traditional male gender roles (for instance, by laughing and saying 'whatabouttehmenz?' when men complain about the gender system, i.e. mocking men for not being stoic and enduring suffering). And finally, there are situations where feminists have quite perniciously reinforced traditional female gender roles, by consistently framing women as helpless dependent victims that need to be rescued from the evil patriarchy, whose agency and strength is so fragile that it collapses under the Male Gaze like a quantum wave function.

In other words, today's feminism has an extremely shoddy record on the issue of dismantling traditional gender roles. It often reinforces male gender roles, works to obstruct the dismanting of male gender roles, and is very inconsistent about dismanting traditional female gender roles.

Indeed, what seems to have happened is that feminism has dismanted only the aspects of traditional femininity that are not useful to women. Since traditional masculinity can be useful to women, it is generally maintained (except those aspects which aren't useful). And the advantages of traditional femininity like Damselling are preserved, and even enshrined in some feminist theory.

2) "Masculosexism against men is The Patriarchy" Third Wave Feminism defines "patriarchy" as a cultural preference for the masculine/male over the feminine/female. But a huge amount of masculosexism against men (not all of it, but most of it) comes from a cultural preference for more masculine/male over less masculine/male, and 'the less masculine' is NOT 'the feminine'.

In other words, Third Wave Patriarchy Theory is confusing/conflating Femmephobia with the Macho Dominance Heirarchy. The two phenomena are interrelated to a degree, granted, but they cannot be package-dealt.

This is the problem - you can't reduce the plight of a non-preposteroned-man being victimized by the nearest brute-alpha-bully down to the plight of a woman sufferring from misogyny. They are different phenomena.

And even so, disdain for a trait-considered-to-be-feminine is not necessarily the same as disdain for femaleness/womanhood itself.

Even without contesting Patriarchy Theory, the argument made in this image is fallacious. Men being masculosexist/gender-policing towards men is not necessarily indicative of a preference for masculinity above femininity per se (especially when femininity is praised and desired when present in women). A man who fails to achieve "ideal" masculinity is not treated like a woman - he can't access female privileges.

Nomenimion · 2013-04-01T14:20:25+00:00

The claim that feminism helps men by dismantling patriarchy is based on the assumption that women will give us a better deal, once they replace male legislators.

There is no evidence for this.

Greyfeld · 2013-04-01T17:11:29+00:00

Being a girl is shameful, men are mocked for showing female characteristics

I'm reeeeaaaally tired of seeing this argument.

circuitology · 2013-04-01T13:36:30+00:00

What they fail to realise is that although there are more men in government than women, it is the women that are making decisions and bringing the men along with them. Whenever you see any anti-male legislation, that doesn't mean that men are against other men, it just means that out of touch women are able to control out of touch men and make laws that affect the rest of us.

Male minister: "But a law denying men the right to education is ridiculous!"

Female minister: "Careful, you don't want to look like a misogynist do you?"

Male minister: "I suppose not, I guess it wouldn't affect me, I already have a degree and a good high powered job. APPROVED"

/badexamplebutsortofnecessary

ibm2431 · 2013-04-01T14:39:17+00:00

It's funny (yet sad) how often such people seem to forget that women make up the majority of the vote, and hence, the power in government.

RedditBlueit · 2013-04-01T20:02:49+00:00

Of course, if you point out that women are the majority, and therefore select those politicians, the gender of the politician is irrelevant.

ExpendableOne · 2013-04-01T22:00:57+00:00

Funny how feminism has only ever been found "dismantling patriarchy" when it was convenient for women, or harmful to men, to do so. Why was it that "dismantling patriarchy", for the help and benefit of boys and men never even entered the picture? You would think that, being this evil entity that it is, "patriarchy" would be opposed by feminists in every regards, no matter who it benefits.

blueoak9 · 2013-04-01T22:24:35+00:00

"Oppressing themselves"?

It should be "oppressing each other". "Oppressing themselves" is the form of objectification called "fungibility" where individuals are considered intechangeable or non-individuated. That's what the writer of that comment is doing, objectifying men into a Borg.

Title	Men oppressing themselves- Confirmation bias!
Author	EnlightMen
Upvotes	25
Comments	31
Date	April 1, 2013 8:24 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1beu2c/men-oppressing-themselves-confirmation-bias/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-oppressing-themselves-confirmation-bias.1609495 https://theredarchive.com/post/1609495

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