The real rape culture!

[–]rogerwatersbitch165 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Boden4171530 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kencabbit58 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Incruentus17 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AustNerevar2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bam2_8912 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Boden417152 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bam2_8916 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Okay, so there's this paper, right, and the front page story is about this 81 year old woman who was raped. So, Carlin sees this in the paper, and he incorporates it into a bit of his standup. Is it okay to laugh?

Okay, so there's this paper, right, and the front page story is about this 81 year old woman who was raped. Unfortunately, as the rapist was leaving, he knocked down a few candles, so the 81 year old woman and her two adopted orphans died in the fire. So, Carlin sees this in the paper, and he incorporates it into a bit of his standup. Is it okay to laugh?

Okay, so there's this paper, right, and the front page story is about this 81 year old woman who was raped. The rapist was caught, of course, and he was convicted. Anyway, this 81 year old woman didn't let her rape destroy her life, and she in fact began to celebrate every year on March 3rd, the day she was raped. At these celebrations, she tells jokes about how her rapist wasn't even smart enough to wear a condom, and how that doesn't even matter, because even if he was, he still would have been caught, because, get this: He forgot his cellphone! So, Carlin sees this in the paper, and he incorporates it into a bit of his standup. Is it okay to laugh?

[–]LupoBorracio4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheDuke915 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]skinny_fucker0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ColonelVirus2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jasidance1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ColonelVirus1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jasidance0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]sre011 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jasidance1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]sre011 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jasidance1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Incruentus9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]redkey422 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kinyutaka3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

personally find them funny most of the time.

I think either side needs to really address the point that noone cares about your views unless you've actually been raped. Somewhat how literally every person will make a gay joke at some point in their life and not feel bad about it. Even gay people.

yeah its often ignorance and its never a good thing to be blase about it. But you expect people to be better then you have to expect people to not treat rape like something that everyone has gone through. It's a fucked up event that happens to only a few people and those people are not going to be sitting around joking about it.

Someone is going to get offended and it is going to be awkward but that s life. It doesn't mean we should ban comedy

I wouldnt laugh at a rape joke regarding an ACTUAL rape victim but I would laugh at a justin beiber prison rape joke ironically. mainl;y because we shouldnt be giving one fuck about justin bieber

Those that do are the ones who will be sitting sheepishly at the idea of whether its right or not. iono.

[–]AlexReynard1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Boden417152 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Offensive_Brute1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]leftofcentaur1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jojotmagnifficent1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fia_bui1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]eggoChicken-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jasidance2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-62 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lafielle66 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Seeing my mother sitting in the passenger seat of my car without wearing a seatbelt is something that scares me.

When I see her sitting there without the black band over her shoulder and hips, my mind begins to race and I imagine her flying through the car window when I am forced to pull on the breaks to prevent a collision. I see her mangled body lying on the asphalt twenty meters in front of the car in the middle of the highway. I run towards her, sirens of an ambulance in the distance that will arrive too late, but there is nothing I can do...

As I imagine this, I feel cold sweat forming on my neck. My throat clenches together, My heart beats faster. The feeling of fear goes all the way to my bones.

I become deeply worried about a possible accident - one that may never happen but one I fear nonetheless. I am so scared that I might lose her. I desperately want her to be safe.

Of course I know that if the car is squashed between two loaded lorries, it won't matter if she wears it. I know the seatbelt can only do so much. I know that.

When I tell my mother to put on her seatbelt, it is because I am scared. When I tell my mother to put on her seatbelt, it is because I want, because I need her to be safe. When I tell my mother to put on her seatbelt, it is because I love her.

I find the suggestion, that telling my mother to put on her seatbelt is somehow "victim blaming", to be deeply, deeply offensive.

When someone suggests that a warning or advise, intended to help keep someone safe, is meant to lay blame, they are turning an expression of love, of care for another's well-being, into something ugly. I have nothing in common with such a person.

[–]Kinseyincanada7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Pwntheon1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kinseyincanada1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Pwntheon1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What are you using wearing a seat belt as an analogy for?

How does wearing a seat belt affect another drivers decision to crash into you?

How does wearing a seat belt help a man who is run over on the street by a jealous girlfriend, or effect her decision to do it?

How does wearing a seat belt help a pedestrian on the path, who a driver has decided to swerve into?

What about a family member, friend or acquaintance that has decided to drive their car through the front window of the family home to injure people inside it?

And you wonder why they are trying discourage arm chair experts. You understand when the electricity board is trying stop amateurs from wiring up houses or quack doctors are discouraged or the road traffic authority takes control of road traffic rules as opposed to letting arm chair experts make it up as they go along.

Giving out unsolicited, patronizing rape prevention advice in the form of wonky and poorly thought out analogies, is nothing to do with mens rights, absolutely nothing.

And further to that, if you are giving out this unsolicited advice and some tumblr or troll or idiot shouts victim blamer back at you, who cares? Its only two fools annoying each other and it can easily be avoided by not giving out unsolicited, patronizing arm chair expert rape prevention advice to strangers in the first place.

[–]binarypillbug-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]binarypillbug1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-46 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lafielle39 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fihsined18 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-33 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fihsined32 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-29 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Iriquois10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-15 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Its a way to assertively control what a potential attacker does or doesn't do in the event of an attack.

Teaching people to learn self defense isn't considered victim blaming, framing rape in terms of rape victims wearing the wrong clothes and drinking the wrong thing is.

Just like saying someone that was deliberately run over is at fault.

The anti victim blaming movement comes from a trauma recovery process.

Victim • First stage of healing. It is important for you to face the reality of the bad or unfortunate thing that happened. • You can then acknowledge the negative feelings and emotions that might be around (grief, anger, sadness, disappointment, frustration, despair, hopelessness, helplessness, etc.) • Allow yourself to experience these feelings and emotions: and to express them. • This is a vital part of healing and a valuable part of this stage. • It is also important to recognise that what happened was not your fault , so you can let go of self - blame and shame. (In the small number of cases where it was partly your fault, it is important for you to attribute only the correct proportion of blame to yourself. Then, it is important for you to consider in what ways, constructively, you may make amends for what occurred.) • Find the courage to tell someone else what happened to you; this breaks down the isolation. • As soon as the victim stage has been acknowledged and understood, you can move into the next stage – survivor

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470978580.app6/pdf

Its totally retarded to spend years being outraged by it, while never knowing what it is.

[–]Iriquois3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree with you on the wrong clothes piece completely, but there's a thin line isn't there?

Relating back to the original comment in this chain, they didn't say anything about clothes, they mentioned "instructing how to prevent rape"

You translate that to saying" don't wear skimpy outfits " (blatant victim blaming)

Whereas I'm translating it as" avoid that part of town " (self defense)

The self defense side of this message is part of the proactive approach (prevention) to avoiding harm (including but not limited to rape), and should be encouraged.

Right?

My point is; and granted I'm new to this arena, if promoting self defense is a good thing, why can't the phrase that you took issue with, "instructing how to prevent rape", be associated with self defense as opposed to associating prevention with wearing the wrong clothes?

[–]JakeDDrake2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheTurtleBear5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PurveyorOfLogic1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]w77001 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bodertz1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[against] amature rape prevention tipstering

So you're against the average citizen looking out for one another? I mean, replace the R word with Crime, Robbery, Arson, Vandalism, Theft, Fraud, Mugging, Breaking and Entering, Assault... and that becomes a pretty silly thing to stand against, and a sillier thing to try and compare to victim blaming.

But again, you think we break down the interrogation room doors at Police Stations across the country, pointing sausage fingers in the faces of teary-eyed rape victims and screeching "DON'T WEAR THAT DRESS PAST 3AM NEXT TIME, SLUT".

Given that you cannot see us as honest, compassionate members of society due to your pre-conceived notions of how we act and what we think, how can you honestly expect to have a conversation in here that proceeds in good faith?

Or is it that you, like countless before you, just sauntered in, expecting to stir a pot?

Well, you'll find conversation, which you did, but you won't find people who want to play that immature game with you.

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JakeDDrake1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]elseedubya17 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-19 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

People do not think they have to teach others, to stop other people deliberately driving into them, using their car as a weapon.

If your mother was walking down the path, and a car deliberately mounted the path to injure her, you would not be focusing on the fact she went near the road as the issue.

And as I said to someone else

Don't blame the victim comes from a three step trauma recovery process called victim, survivor, thriver.

The trauma victim first presents with an overwhelming and irrational sense of self blame and responsibility for the rape. (Possibly having internalised common responses - wearing the wrong clothes, why were you so drunk etc).

Hence the movement to get people to stop framing rape in terms of the victim doing things wrong.

The therapist rationalizes with the trauma victim to try to get the levels of mental pain and self blame to rational levels.

At the end of the recovery process, the trauma victim has hopefully regained their personal agency and gained some coping skills.

And you and lots of mra's don't even know this is what its about, and yet frequently get really angry and concerned about it.

[–]kencabbit10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

and yet frequently get really angry and concerned about it.

In part because that label of "victim blaming" is sometimes misused to dismiss an argument or close down discussion instead of referring to any of the therapeutic considerations you are referring to.

If somebody is raped and the first reaction is to criticize her outfit, then I'll be on board with calling that victim blaming.

But if somebody goes out, gets drunk and agrees to sex, and then later calls it rape, then I don't want to be shouted down as a victim blamer if I point out that her choices had a leading role in the outcome (edit: I don't mean to her face, mind). It's that kind of situation that MRAs get their underpants in a twist about.

edit: The other component that gets MRA's bent up is somewhat more important -- that "don't blame the victim" has sometimes been part of a larger package that also includes "instead teach men not to be the rapists they are!" Of course, it's not usually phrased that way, But the slogans and advertisements and the literature comes off that way, placing the responsibility of rape on all men and not just the small minority of men (and women!) who rape.

[–]TRPACC-9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kencabbit10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So, if you went out, got drunk, and then a driver decided to mount the path and run you over and left you with PTSD.

You're assuming that I consider the sex in question to be analogous to somebody maliciously running you down on the side of the road. I don't, in that case. But we can move past that.

And some redundant idiot came along and started saying how if you had stayed at home that night you wouldn't have made it happen, you would see it perfectly reasonable.

I'm not arguing that I should be allowed to go up to girls who claim they have been raped and tell them they shouldn't have gone drinking. Most of this stuff isn't directed at a rape victim to begin with. It's discussion about how to best be responsible and prevent a victim from existing in the first place.

why would you want to be so redundant in the first place?

Because rape is a really awful thing, and I'd like to have less victims of it. Again, keep in mind I'm not saying anybody should be up in a rape victim's face telling them all the things they should have done differently. We're talking about the mere discussion in the abstract being dismissed as victim blaming.

[–]TRPACC-11 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kencabbit7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]elseedubya10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I just don't think people should frame good advice as some evil intent to harm a trauma victim. Of course, people need to be sensitive to the victim as far as timing, tact and usefulness. But we're not even really talking about the scenario of "Hey, Suzie, heard you got raped, and I meant to tell you that's a bad part of town, so you should never go there again because it's pretty rapey over there" so much as we're talking about this one: "Hey, Suzie, I know you want to go to that bar, but that's a sketchy side of town so maybe bring some friends, preferably intimidating-looking ones." One is much closer to victim-blaming than the other.

Giving someone instructions on how to prevent being a victim in the first place (so these are non-victims we're instructing here) is not the same as saying "I told you so" to an actual victim of rape. Equating them is just a weak way to argue. I don't want to hear your advice after I've gotten raped - obviously - but I might find it useful if rape is something I want to avoid forever.

[–]TRPACC-9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme13 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you don't want reproductive abuse, you use a condom...

You are suggesting that telling a man who gets a woman pregnant and is subsequently locked into child support could have avoided it by using safe sex practices is "victim blaming," which is nothing but nonsense.

Just because you can be the victim of the malicious choices of others or of circumstances in general doesn't remove your responsibility to take whatever measures you can to preserve my own safety.

If I went on a camping trip and froze to death, would it be "victim blaming" to point out I should have brought extra cold weather gear? Am I now immune to criticism because of my newfound victim status at the hands of nature?

Apparently only if you're a woman and a victim of rape are you immune to criticism of your choices. What an egalitarian viewpoint.

Observing that individuals have a role in their own safety is a part of growing the fuck up. Calling that victim blaming is a childish way of avoiding the concept that people do have responsibility for their own safety.

If I got mugged on my way home from a bar while waking drunk and alone, is it "victim blaming" to point out I shouldn't be walking home drunk and alone?

Are you starting to see the difference between "she was asking for it" and "she should not have drank that much"?

Tldr: grow up, take control over what you can in your life, that is what you are responsible for.

[–]eeelisabeth1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You and many others seem to be assuming that rape only happens to scantily clad, drunk women, but that is so far from the truth.

Where, has anyone in this post, stated explicitly or implicitly, that rape only happens to scantily clad, drunk women, or implied that the blame doesn't rest solely with the criminal?

Nowhere is the correct answer. I even said it earlier, we aren't stupid, we don't think that women can stop rape just by changing how they act, just like we don't think you can stop rape by telling men not to rape.

Why you even brought it up is beyond me.

This whole discussion was about the misappropriation of the phrase "victim blaming" to refer to any discussion about crime prevention involving women.

Let that sink in for a second: if a man walks home alone, drunk, in a nice suit, and gets mugged, is observing those things which made him a likely target "victim blaming" or is it simply making intelligent observations to prevent crime. Is communicating to that victim and potential victims about what things they can do to make themselves less of a target "victim blaming"?

It's just not victim blaming. Victim blaming isn't discussing what we can do to prevent crimes, it's assigning blame to the victim for not doing more to prevent the crime.

Which is a distinction that some people are unable, or are unwilling to make.

[–]TRPACC-9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Don't blame the victim comes from a three step trauma recovery process called victim, survivor, thriver.

The trauma victim first presents with an overwhelming and irrational sense of self blame and responsibility for the rape. (Possibly having internalised common responses - wearing the wrong clothes, why were you so drunk etc). Hence the movement to get people to stop framing rape in terms of the victim doing things wrong.

The therapist rationalizes with the trauma victim to try to get the levels of mental pain and self blame to rational levels.

At the end of the recovery, the trauma victim has hopefully regained their personal agency and gained some coping skills.

And you and lots of mra's don't even know this is what its about, and yet frequently get really angry and concerned about it.

[–][deleted]15 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's only relevant when discussing individual victims within the context of an individual event and directly communicating with that victim.

You are creating a strawman argument, because the "victim blaming" that gets thrown around that we are discussing isn't dealing with individual victims, we aren't going to rape victims and saying "don't dress like a slut," it's about dealing with potential victims and strategies of avoiding crime, acknowledging that in the criminal:victim structure, only the victim cares about their welfare, and only the potential victim, not the potential criminal, will consciously make choices to preserve their own welfare.

MRAs advocate for personal agency when possible. When it comes to crime, while the criminal is ultimately to blame, individuals have a responsibility to themselves to take precautions when choosing to enter situations with inherent risk.

Acknowledging personal agency is part of being an adult, and is not victim blaming in any way.

Calling it victim blaming is just a way of trying to make out reasonable opinions as misogynist, it's sad and immature.

[–]TRPACC-9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme15 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You still are creating a straw man by making a false equivalence.

You are failing to acknowledge the fundamental difference between telling girls "If you don't want to get raped you shouldn't dress like a slut" (which nobody here is supporting, and the fact that you even brought it up like we participate in it is really just a shaming tactic) and discussing how not drinking excessively, not going out alone, staying in well-lit and populated areas, and yes, not dressing provocatively in areas know for being unsafe, are all ways to avoid being the victim of opportunistic crimes.

For lack of a better word, it's idiotic to try to silence the discourse about preventing crimes through personal action to avoid becoming a victim just because you can't figure out the difference between that and calling a rape victim a slut.

Calling that discussion "victim blaming" is a mental roadblock to further discussion, and a way of avoiding the concept that a person can have responsibility for their own well-being.

A criminal can be fully to blame while responsibility can be taken by the victim for what they did have control over.

I got mugged walking home drunk and alone, and ended up with some torn ligaments and a black eye.

I find it deeply insulting that you would consider my friends telling me how I could have avoided the situation entirely to be "victim blaming."

I'm an adult who is capable of acknowledging that I have control over certain aspects of my own life, and that I still didn't deserve to get mugged.

Both of those things are entirely separate from actual victim blaming, which would be someone saying I was "asking for it" by walking home drunk.

I hope someday you can realize the difference and become part of a constructive discussion.

[–]TRPACC-12 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There's no content in this post to respond to, you just made another straw man.

Edit: I guess I'll bite

giving women unsolicited patronizing rape prevention tips

How is a discussion unsolicited? This whole discussion came about because of the feminist discourse about "teaching boys not to rape" and subsequent accusations of "victim blaming" when it became apparent through discussion that in order to avoid crime, the victim has some control, and all of the motivation, to avoid the crime, and that the concept of "teaching boys not to rape" is sexist, dehumanizing, and ineffective.

Is it unsolicited because some people don't like that we are having that discussion?

Yeah you can fuck off with that, we don't need permission to have a discussion.

And I'll just ignore your use of the word "patronizing" because that's just a projection on your part. Unlike people who are against advocating for people to take responsibility for their own safety proactively, we actually do care about the victims and potential victims, because we are actually doing things to help them not become victims. Let that sink in for a second before you accuse us of faking kindness so that we can feel superior.

So let's break down what you actually said if you had done so at all accurately (as in not made a straw man)

There isn't much difference between " if you don't want to get raped, don't dress like a slut", and ~~giving women~~ ~~unsolicited~~ ~~patronizing~~ discussing rape prevention ~~tips~~.

And when you look at it that way, with the second part properly and honestly communicated, it's obviously a false statement. That's how a straw man works, you figuratively smear your mental diarrhea onto a canvas, call it the Mona Lisa, and then use that as evidence that Starry Night is a better painting.

Now as for your second part

the tards that think its important to tell someone that if they weren't' drunk or turned left instead of right it wouldn't have happened, they all work off the assumption that women just need to be taught adjust their behaviour.

This is even more straw man, I'll explain how and why.

Discussing rape prevention would include observing that if you drink to the point that you are unable to stay safe in what is normally a safe environment (blacking out at a house party for example) then you are putting yourself at risk. You are extending that mindset (inaccurately) to an individual telling a rape victim that they deserved it because they were drunk. The "left instead of right" bit was funny, but you're better than that. I would actually say that getting lost or walking about aimlessly in certain situations are also ways to make yourself vulnerable to crime but we both know that's not what you meant. It's pretty insulting and quite ridiculous to imply that observing that someone is more at risk of being a victim of a crime when drunk is as pointless as observing that their arbitrary decisions led to them being a victim. One of those things is obviously relevant, the other isn't.

As for "the assumption that women just need to be taught adjust their behaviour" you are dead wrong, I'd go as far as to call you an outright liar.

That opinion is as overly simplistic as suggesting that men just need to learn to stop raping, and the MRM has never (non-facetiously) advocated that rape could be stopped if women just acted differently.

I'm not sure how you concocted that notion, but nobody here actually thinks that the key to stopping rape is for women to simply change their behavior.

TLDR: Read the post I bothered explaining why you were wrong again

[–]TRPACC-7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tsvenkovkorvsky6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not trolling. Rape victims and child sex abuse victims are known by trauma counsellors to blame themselves. Thats why they try so hard to get know it alls to stop framing rape in terms of what the victim did wrong.

Don't blame the victim, which we are so outraged by is part of a trauma recovery process, and we have no clue.

See for yourself.

• First stage of healing. It is important for you to face the reality of the bad or unfortunate thing that happened.

• You can then acknowledge the negative feelings and emotions that might be around (grief, anger, sadness, disappointment, frustration, despair, hopelessness, helplessness, etc.)

• Allow yourself to experience these feelings and emotions: and to express them.

• This is a vital part of healing and a valuable part of this stage.

• It is also important to recognise that what happened was not your fault , so you can let go of self - blame and shame. (In the small number of cases where it was partly your fault, it is important for you to attribute only the correct proportion of blame to yourself.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470978580.app6/pdf

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

In the small number of cases where it was partly your fault, it is important for you to attribute only the correct proportion of blame to yourself.

Lol...wow...discussion ender right there.

So basically if you do black out drunk at a strangers house and get raped in your sleep, you can acknowledge that you are to blame for drinking too much and how that action put yourself at risk in multiple ways, but that it wasn't your fault for getting raped and you didn't deserve it, that part was not your fault.

If you choke on your own vomit and die because you drank too much, you are responsible.

But if you are raped in your sleep, you are still responsible for the drinking, but not for being raped.

That's basically the distinction that's been made multiple times here, and your source even supports making that distinction.

[–]TRPACC-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

In a therapeutic setting...how do you keep missing that. We aren't talking to victims, we aren't therapists, this isn't a therapeutic setting, and we don't need to be professionals to discuss how "teaching men not to rape" is a stupid concept and that people do have some personal responsibility. That is the context in which we are discussing rape prevention.

Furthermore we aren't going to silence a productive discussion, which nobody is forced to participate in I might add, because some people somewhere might feel as if they are more responsible than they actually are for something that happened to them.

It has no bearing on discussion about rape prevention and discourse about societal attitudes towards it.

I already explained how the MRM discourse about rape prevention started, and it had nothing to do with us getting involved in treatment of rape victims. Furthermore it doesn't take an expert to have a discussion about a controversial subject.

[–]TRPACC-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The MRM never objected to the concept of not blaming the victim so this is utter nonsense. The MRM objects to the way the term "victim blaming" is used.

As for the slut walk...It's misdirected at best. Men and women should be able to dress however they want, but in reality they cannot do so and be safe in any circumstance. That's just reality, and it's not victim blaming to discuss how individuals can take responsibility for what they can control.

What's irresponsible is advocating that people actually walk around wearing whatever they want and disregarding the fact that criminals actually do exist.

You should be able to wear a fanny pack, but they are easy targets for pickpockets.

You should be able to go mountaineering in a T-shirt but you'll freeze.

You should be able to go out at night alone and get wasted, but you might get mugged.

Am I blaming victims of pickpocketing, frostbite, and mugging by recognizing this? If that's "victim blaming" then the MRM should rightly object to that concept, you are the one falsely extending that to mean we support blaming victims.

[–]TRPACC-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]46n2arejustaheadofme2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]skinny_fucker1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]skinny_fucker1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tsvenkovkorvsky5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tsvenkovkorvsky3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GimmeSomeSugar10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-12 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]spankaway9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are being deliberately obtuse. Crime, assault, and violence are a constant danger for all of us - and we regularly take steps to prevent it. We lock our doors, study martial arts, carry self-defense weapons, maintain situational awareness, stay out of bad parts of town, etc. Women are much more vulnerable to some forms of assault. Men are much more vulnerable to other forms (most victims of violence are men). When something happens, the moral blame is always on the shoulders of the perpetrator. Being well dressed in a wrong part of town at night is not a reason for anyone to mug a person, just like an unlocked door is not an excuse to rob a house. But it does tend to elevate the risk, and not acknowledging that is simply being blind. There is a difference between telling a victim of violence that it was their fault, and learning from the sad events that transpired.

There are really are things that women can do to decrease likelihood of victimization - truly. And I'm not speaking about dressing more conservatively. The best tools in any person's arsenal for avoiding and surviving violence are situational awareness, self-defense skills, and a good pair of running shoes.

Does that mean that we should not educate people on consent, etc? Of course not, all that stuff is wonderful - and hopefully effective. But in the meantime my gf is taking a women's self defense class and learning how to be aware of her surroundings. Prevention can and should be tackled along both avenues.

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This has nothing to do with mens rights.

Trauma and rape advocacy groups are tying to get arm chair prevention experts out of the game and to stop idiots lecturing rape victims about how if they turned left instead of right it would have been avoided, as if they don't already know.

Giving patronizing, unsolicited rape prevention advice to strangers who have heard it all before as if they cannot understand simple concepts, and lecturing rape victims like they are children that cannot comprehend simple concepts , is nothing to do with mens rights, even if trolls shout victim blamer at you when you do it.

The simple answer is to stop being an arm chair expert rape prevention tipster.

You don't bother your neighbors with unwanted and patronizing safety tips - "you know if you don't leave the house, you can minimise your risk of something bad happening" or knock on their door after they have been deliberately run over to tell them that they could have avoided it by staying about home, and if you did they would tell you fuck off.

[–]TRPACC-13 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kencabbit7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]spankaway5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]spankaway6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]spankaway3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]spankaway3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]spankaway2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kencabbit1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Alzael6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-8 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Alzael4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Cyridius3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Except a rapist doesn't run 80 miles per hour in a metal box of death.

Saying being run over by a car and being raped is the same is moronic. Just because they both have malicious intent doesn't mean they're identical or even comparable.

If I had a gun and shot you, would it be the same as having a knife and stabbing you? Motive and intent may be the same, but the method is entirely different.

Let's give you a scenario.

I'm a very affluent businessman. I wear a 10,000 dollar tuxedo, I drive around in my very pricey Ferrari, and I have this suitcase full of money with me.

I'm driving through a really rough neighborhood late one evening. I'm talking gangs and drug dealers. I pull over to the curb for some fresh air and take out the most expensive phone you can imagine. Let's pretend the latest iPhone model.

I start talking really loudly and drawing attention to myself. I don't notice. I want to make sure the money's all in the suitcase, so I go and open it up and count it. Flashing that money right there in the middle of a rough neighborhood with my Ferrari, tux, and iPhone.

What do you think happens next? Well, I can either be lucky and nothing happens to me. Or someone can see my total lack of awareness and insane level of wealth and see I'm an easy target.

Next thing I know I just got mugged and carjacked. No phone. No money. No car. Hell, they even took my suit.

Now, what could I have done differently?

I could have not stopped in a rough neighborhood
I could have sat in the car while I was on the phone
I could have waited to count my money somewhere more private
Failing all that, I could've just paid more attention to my surroundings to gauge the situation.

But I didn't do any of that. Should I have gotten mugged? No. It's wrong that it happened. It's illegal. It's immoral. Could it have been avoided? Yes.

By your logic, everything I just said was victim blaming.

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Cyridius1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Cyridius1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Alzael1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Who caused it is an irrelevant argument. It doesn't actually matter, as the action is a crime, and you can't 'invite' someone to commit most crimes against you (there are exceptions, such as some variations of the Fighting Words doctrine, but let's set them aside for now).

What matters is preventing these crimes from taking place in the future -- something feminists pretend to care about, but never seem to take any action on. And given the financial motivation for feminist organizations to do nothing real about rape, I have to assume that it's a deliberate, or at least subconsciously selected, choice to do nothing and instead raise fits of pique in order to raise money.

I have too much experiences with politics not to see it this way. I have seen this exact behavior in both conservative and liberal groups who drum up false outrage by taking BS out of context, and then using the resulting outrage to raise funds. Whether you acknowledge that is what you are all doing or not, it appears to be exactly what you're doing.

And given the human mind's capacity for self-deception, you could do all of that and still convince yourself that the outrage you feel is real. Because rationalization and BS is what the human mind is developed to do. And that is a real problem in feminists, because it refuses to accept how human cognitive functions actually work, and instead pretends that 'feelings' are anything but the language our mind uses to trick us.

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]freelollies2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So the implication is that the issue is women making mistakes like forgetting to lock their windows and need special help with that.

Don't blame the victim is part of a trauma recovery process, there is no sense in being outraged by it.

• First stage of healing. It is important for you to face the reality of the bad or unfortunate thing that happened.

• You can then acknowledge the negative feelings and emotions that might be around (grief, anger, sadness, disappointment, frustration, despair, hopelessness, helplessness, etc.)

• Allow yourself to experience these feelings and emotions: and to express them.

• This is a vital part of healing and a valuable part of this stage.

• It is also important to recognise that what happened was not your fault , so you can let go of self - blame and shame. (In the small number of cases where it was partly your fault, it is important for you to attribute only the correct proportion of blame to yourself.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470978580.app6/pdf

If you want to to give patronising tips to women, and are outrageg by them objecting, why are you bring it up here at all when its got nothing to do with us?

[–]Go_Back_To_SRS_Cunt1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Iriquois1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RichieLikesRice1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Since I read through all of these comments and you're not doing a real bang up job of pleading your case, I'd like to give it a shot for you using the analogy provided by the other guy about seatbelts:

If you warn your mother to wear her seatbelt in case of an accident you are looking out for her safety. Definitely.

If, after there is a car accident where your mother wasn't wearing her seatbelt and is hospitalized and you say to her "This is why you should have worn your seatbelt like I always tell you" then you are "victim blaming"

Similarly:

If you tell a friend "Hey X street gets really sketchy after dark, you shouldn't go down there if you can avoid it" then you're watching out.

If that friend goes to X street anyway and gets attacked and you say "I told you not to go on X street!" You are "Victim blaming"

We clear now?

[–]TRPACC2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zwirlo0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AbsoluteRunner1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zwirlo1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zwirlo-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChipMen1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dantedivolo1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]thehumungus89 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]cygne53 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]xereeto-22 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]freelollies23 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]xereeto-12 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]21 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]xereeto-15 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]darps12 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]xereeto-6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IlleFacitFinem7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mister_ghost2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GodOfAThousandForms0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jasidance0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/pi74y/if_a_guy_used_this_on_me_it_may_just_work/c3pljr3

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/pi74y/if_a_guy_used_this_on_me_it_may_just_work/c3plytp

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/pi74y/if_a_guy_used_this_on_me_it_may_just_work/c3plvj7

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/pi74y/if_a_guy_used_this_on_me_it_may_just_work/c3plv3z

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/p9ohj/high_five/c3nollb

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/p99il/my_school_tried_locking_us_out_of_the_bathrooms/c3njev7

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/p8coy/if_you_could_learn_one_spell_from_harry_potter/c3nbguw

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/p6z0c/what_popular_quote_do_you_hate_with_a_passion/c3n0n62 with the reply

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/p27o0/iama_male_who_was_falsely_accused_of_sexual/c3lxvf3

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/ourzc/if_a_child_conceived_by_rape_is_a_blessing_from/c3k88pc?context=1

There you go! a bunch of upvoted "jokes" about violence against women and children and rape jokes galore and beliefs that false accusations should take place over real rapes! Lemme know if you want more proof people don't give a fuck when anyone is raped, will you?

Edit: Bonus it's only sexual harassment if you get reported

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Dronelisk7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]w77002 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]s150042 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]scurvebeard31 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ILoveHate17 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Saying someone is not attractive is not fucking ammunition. Quit being so fucking terrified of feminists and whatever other groups out there who want to attack men's rights. Do you honestly think people will give a damn if some random feminist goes around posting screenshots of a men's rights post showing "she's not that attractive" as proof we're misogynists and people will take him/her seriously? No. Guess what, we get to have preferences and make our own decisions, in fact we can even voice those opinions.

This whole fat acceptance, ugly acceptance, don't voice your opinions on women bullshit is really getting old. It's like telling women they should be down with rape acceptance. If some guy wants to fuck you, just go with it. Otherwise you might hurt his feelings and make yourself look like a bitch. Yeah, right. Nobody tells women that (except maybe those fuckers with the friend zone, but even then it's iffy).

[–]scurvebeard9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ILoveHate3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ILoveHate1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ILoveHate0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ILoveHate2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude it's implied. I'll make this my last comment because I'm getting tired of this. But this is the same shit as "does my ass look fat?". This chick made an offhand comment, she may have not intended it to go a certain way, but guess what, it did. Were the people who "took it off road" and said she was ugly wrong? No, of course not. They have their own opinions and are entitled to them. Not to mention I agree with them, so there's that.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but why would someone feel compelled to share their opinion on someone's attractiveness on a subreddit about men's rights?

Because life isn't black and white? Because not everything is "men are oppressed in the courtroom" or "women are getting away with pedophilia" or some other shit. These are people, you know, real people. And just like some MRA can call some chick ugly, some feminist might have a rape fantasy. Shit happens, you can't control it, and you shouldn't take it too seriously.

It's completely stupid and irrelevant and distracts from the actual issue here, which is the acceptance of prison rape jokes.

There's two issues here. The chick and her dumb-ass comment, and the rape jokes. Some people still think jokes are fun, even if they're rape jokes. Yes you can make an argument about how only male rape jokes are acceptable these days in public, but that's beside the point. The "ugly" comment refereed to the other half of this picture. It wasn't off, it wasn't out of the blue, and it wasn't irrelevant. It was just something that pissed you off.

[–]checkyourlogic1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude it's implied. I'll make this my last comment because I'm getting tired of this. But this is the same shit as "does my ass look fat?".

You think she posted that comparison photo so people would tell her she was pretty? How does that make any fucking sense? You legitimately believe she was fishing for compliments by making a joke about Justin Bieber's mugshot? That might a conclusion you would come to if you're the kind of guy who is looking for any excuse to insult random women.

It pisses me off because it's fucking stupid and irrelevant. There aren't two issues here. This is a men's rights subreddit and her comment, regardless of what you think about it, has nothing to do with the rights of men. And anyone who thought her attractiveness was relevant in a discussion about prison rape jokes doesn't give even half a shit about men's rights and is here purely for the misogynist circlejerking.

[–]ILoveHate1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The fact that you think she's ugly isn't misogyny. The fact that you 1.)Assume, for absolutely no reason, that she was looking for compliments 2.)Called her "dumb-ass comment" (aka joke about a smiling mugshot) an issue comparable to prison rape jokes 3.) seem to think her attractiveness is at all relevant to this conversation and 4.)believe not calling a woman ugly is going "above and beyond" and fight so valiantly for your right to do so are what clue me into the fact that you probably aren't here because you care about men's issues and would rather hang around for the less productive circlejerking that has resulted in nothing but negative coverage for this community.

And I never thought I was going to change your mind. But not everyone here is like you and I think it's good to point out examples of how this subreddit gets so off-track in it's goals to actually help men. If you don't like that don't worry, I'm not surprised. But I have no plans to shut up either so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T-9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]binarypillbug1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]binarypillbug0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]scurvebeard2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]scurvebeard0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]binarypillbug0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]binarypillbug0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zwirlo-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zwirlo3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zwirlo-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TechnoL33T4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JoDoStaffShow3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]binarypillbug-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]notnotnotfred32 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard16 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheHonestCommenter3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]negativereddit-5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]negativereddit1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IcarusBurning12 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]empirical_accuracy5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jonnytechno2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kahow11078 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jmkiii7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kulkija0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Slntrob5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mancerabr71 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mancerabr71 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]_Connor3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]megastarVC3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sometimes_Black2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]megastarVC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]darps3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JacenSolo93 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trentthecaptain2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]intensely_human2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LeoMofo2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Capitalsman2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pressthebutt0n2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]phoenix9051 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]foyamoon2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmiteThyFace2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmiteThyFace2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]masterrod1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tksmase1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Offensive_Brute1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was tempted to make the same comment when a similar thing appeared on FB, but then I realized that I would be contributing to the portrayal of prison rape as something that is not a serious issue.

Now you might say to me "Offensie_Brute! you're a hypocrite! You always make jokes about female rape!" And thats true.

The difference being that no matter how many jokes I tell about female rape, everyone acknowledges that it is a serios and horrible thing that no one should ever have to endure, and the people who inflict it upon women are vicious violent criminals. No one of sound mind is on the other side of that issue, and my rancid jokes will never change that.

However male rape, especially prison rape, is not universally recognized as a heinous violent crime. Its often portrayed as an acceptable form of secondary justice, and people declare that the victim deserves it, or in the case of efeminate or gay men like Beiber, that he would enjoy it if that was inflicted upon him.

You have to be some kinda asshole not to acknowledge the chasm in the way our society treats the same crime, inflicted on each gender.

[–]7i77y1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]aagaye1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]warsie1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]HarryLillis1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mister_ghost1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]veyron10010 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]krakow0570 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rogerwatersbitch20 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Space_Ninja0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rogerwatersbitch1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Daemonicus19 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rodiren1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]baskandpurr1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]baskandpurr2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Space_Ninja2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Collective821 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kencabbit5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Space_Ninja1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

“This is a major policy change and will dramatically impact the way rape is tracked and reported nationwide,” says Katherine Spillar, executive editor of Ms. “With a modern, broader definition, FBI Uniform Crime Report statistics will finally show the true breadth of this violence that affects so many women’s lives.”

Ha, yeah thanks.

And if you’d like to take a minute to thank FBI Director Robert Mueller for finally taking the archaic “forcible rape” definition off the books and into the history books where it belongs, you can do so here.

See? They were upset that not enough women were being counted.

Jesus man, read the sources your posting first.

You're our answer to that guy Aerik from againstmensrights, irrational group thinker.

Please stop pretending to be an MRA.

You do nothing but trash the movement, I've never seen you support any MRM goals.

[–]TRPACC1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You believed there was no example of a major feminists organization doing anything at all for raped men and asked to be shown one, expecting for their not to be one, I showed you a major feminist organization including men that are penetrated. Then like the emotional reasoner you are you moved the goal posts.

Another false position you are trying to argue is that prison rape isn't routinely acknowledged as being part of rape culture.

http://feminists-of-thefourthwave.tumblr.com/post/74342844748/jail-rape-culture

http://auspiciousauspistice.tumblr.com/post/74337207703/a-facebook-page-for-a-radio-station-recently

http://cruelvalentine.tumblr.com/tagged/rape_culture

Learn a bit about something before you argue about it, that way you won't so easily be contradicted and proven wrong. What use are you in this debate, if you don't know anything about the topic and instead spout easily disproved falsehoods? You are dead weight in a debate about rape culture.

You seem to believe that taking the time to find out what rape culture means, so you can know what you're taking about and so be able to debunk it, makes a person not an mra.

The implication is that to be an mra by your measure, you are required to argue about things a lot, without actually knowing basic things about them and being easily debunked.

[–]scanspeak-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Umedark1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lvstbrnd-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]haveasigarda-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trypx-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mikeylm92-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BuddhaB10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mikeylm922 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BuddhaB1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Apeman92-3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ignorethisone-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EinsteinRidesShotgun-8 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]notimeforname-13 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bca19928 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Koebs-32 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]notnotnotfred14 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Title	The real rape culture!
Author	EnlightMen
Upvotes	833
Comments	385
Date	January 23, 2014 7:06 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1vyoqa/the-real-rape-culture/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-real-rape-culture.1614043 https://theredarchive.com/post/1614043

Comments