Feminism and Highschool

eletheros · 2014-11-07T20:05:07+00:00

What I found was that a lot of stuff that I agreed with was definitely more reasonable and true, but the crowd of tumblr girls were inherently the loudest bunch in the class and while everyone else would sit patiently and listen to their arguments, as soon as someone would say something even remotely straying from their agenda they would freak out and start yelling like children.

This is called 'barracking' and in arenas like scored and law debates is an infraction of the rules.

While you don't have a Capital F Formal debate, you do have an arbitrator to appeal too, your teacher. Whenever you're interrupted, appeal to that teacher. Highlight that you sat and listened while it was their turn and you deserve a chance to speak.

With opponents like that you will never convince them of anything, so your only goal is to convince others around you. That requires that you remain civil and don't adopt the actions of talking over them, increasing volume to compete, etc just because they do.

Razgriz16 · 2014-11-07T19:55:29+00:00

Also: what are some good resources and statistics I can provide to prove many feminist lies false? That would really help the cause!

guywithaccount · 2014-11-07T22:29:34+00:00

Well, since your teacher sounds like a fair-minded person, maybe he needs to take a stronger hand in moderating class discussion to ensure that the shrieking harpies don't take over and prevent the expression of different viewpoints or contradictory information.

Your_Bacon_Counselor · 2014-11-08T00:37:24+00:00

People tend to view the world through their own frame of reference. We all do it. The problem is when one worldview achieves the ideological dominance that feminism has. Now, I believe it has achieved this not because of it's own work, but due to it being beneficial to power. It is fed very well.

When faced with this overwhelming disadvantage, it is best to appeal to the followers of the ideology personally. For me, the best method is to let them know that I do in fact empathize with many of their grievances, but can't understand why they refuse to recognise any of mine. Why can they not even consider that my genitals were disfigured at the request of a woman? Why would a person want to work for a cause that essentially denies my humanity?

Let that be the end of your contribution to discussion.

TRPACC · 2014-11-07T20:20:31+00:00

Showing how feminism has been covering up abuse is a slam dunk.

Try "The architecture of anti science" by dennis dutton.

ZimbaZumba · 2014-11-08T17:45:08+00:00

The earlier we come to an opinion the harder it is to move us away from that view, that is why feminism is trying to infiltrate the class room. As Chomsky says education is about the training of obedience and conformity. Feminism is attempting to impose a new conformity and a new obedience by infiltrating High Schools.

These high school class debates are often awful and the teachers are rarely objective from my experience. Common tactics include

Gotcha arguments that are designed to be brief but take a long time to unravel. They are laden with dogma and hidden assumptions, some of which unprovably true or false. eg women have historically been oppressed as a class
Gish Gallops, ie a torrents of half truths, lies, strawmen and cherry picking etc arguments that are so numerous it is impossible to answer in reasonable time.
Ad hominem (Insults) and Strawmen (ie attacking an incorrect version of your argument).
Appeals to Authority especially biased authority, the media and 'common wisdom/knowledge'.

It is for the teacher to regulate the discussion and should verse you in these and other techniques that are considered out of order in most serious discussions/debates. Approach the teacher and ask him to call out an argumentative method if it is below the belt, or do so yourself. Training yourself in informal fallacies is both fun and an enormously powerful life long tool to have.

kizzan · 2014-11-07T20:23:14+00:00

You are definitely more noble than me. If it were me, I would raise my hand and tell the teacher that I refuse to be stuck in a class where some unhealthy extreme feminists spew their political beliefs (because feminism is political). I would ask that I be excused and sent to the principal's office until the teacher is done with that topic.

jo939 · 2014-11-07T21:26:49+00:00

Well first of all you can talk about alimony, how wealthy men get married and then divorced will have to pay their wives, in many states a lifetime paycheck. It's not child support, it's spousal support. You can talk about how if it turns out that if woman has a baby and that baby is proven not to be the child of her husband, the husband is still responsible by default for the baby. Meaning that she can have sex with whomever but if she has a kid, her husband is legally obligated to pay for that child. The thing about Tumblr Feminists though is they won't listen. So pick any one of them, and ask them a fair-minded question. Here's a good one. If you go to Medical school, work hard for 8 years through school and then work in the field for another 10, and then you finally settle down and get married, do you think your husband should be entitled to a portion of your earnings for the rest of his life if you get divorced? Do you think that if you marry someone else and they also make a good amount of money, do you think he should be able to go to court and tell the judge to increase payments on your alimony? Do you consider that fair?

DavidByron2 · 2014-11-07T21:31:55+00:00

Well you could point out that the female dominated anti-male atmosphere of the feminist stuff constitutes sex discrimination against the male students, which if severe enough or on-going could constitute sexual harassment against one or more boys by the school (ie sex discrimination that creates a hostile environment for learning).

Suggest that the only way to avoid sex discrimination in violation of Title IX and therefore sexual harassment charges against the school would be to have a term dedicated to men's rights as a balance.

Only if your school is in the USA of course.

2014-11-07T22:14:43+00:00

I've learned to enjoy it when someone like that calls me a sexist. Get a belt and make a notch each time a bigot hits with an ad hominem.

That's the fun part. The hard part is to master your knowledge of the information such that they have nothing left bur logical fallacies and lies.

JayBopara · 2014-11-07T23:47:49+00:00

Here is an excellent article by Dr Murray Strauss which looks at how feminism corrupts research on domestic violence.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/how-feminists-corrupt-dv-research/

Feminism works by trivializing any issues men&boys face, so the narrative can always be about female victimhood. Men and boys used to have to work in the coal mines in the 19th century, yet they were "oppressing women" and "women were oppressed". Indeed, the work was so bad, only males aged 12 and up were allowed to do the work (the law got changed so women were not allowed to work there). Women were considered too precious to allow to work in the coal mines, yet the narrative from the feminists will be "oppression of women" because they were not allowed to work.

It's all in their totally false narrative, and their faked statistics to adhere to this ideological narrative. Feminism - it's a religion but disguises itself as rational thought.

aussietoads · 2014-11-08T02:33:15+00:00

Why not concentrate on one thing. For example, the myth that men have always had the right to vote while women haven't.

Show them how the early suffragettes gained the right to vote by helping to send thousands of young boys, many not much older than the students in your class, to their deaths, with their infamous white feather campaign. Point out that these heroes of the 'feminist' movement weren't actually interested in votes for all women, but were only interested in votes for aristocratic women and those lucky enough to own their property.

Make them aware, that is was the men and women of the civil rights and suffrage movement, that is, the suffragists, who carried the torch of universal suffrage, not the suffragettes who only cared about elite power for elite women. Also make them aware that while a common man's right to vote was tied initially to military service, no such obligations have ever been put on women for them to assume the right to vote.

xNOM · 2014-11-08T03:20:55+00:00

What I'm asking from you great people is how can I opposes feminism in the class, without being portrayed as a sexist.

Honestly? You can't really. Without having a vagina. I'm serious. Statistically the vast majority of people, including feminists, instinctively view women as helpless children, and will see any attack on feminism as an attack on women.

Other than that my advice is the same as in any other subject. Stick to verifiable facts. Admit when you get them wrong. Learn the difference between fighting and arguing. Leave feelz out of it as much as possible.

GroaningGrogan · 2014-11-08T03:43:27+00:00

Be prepared to explain that feminism != women. Women are people while feminism is an ideology. If they still attack you over being a sexist ask them if criticizing the Aryan nations movement is then an attack on all men.

FallingSnowAngel · 2014-11-08T04:49:46+00:00

What I'm asking from you great people is how can I opposes feminism in the class, without being portrayed as a sexist. I want some clear arguments against feminism, for egalitarianism or equalism or men's rights, and how men suffer and feminism is wrong.

When you do that, you're appointing your classmates the official representatives of feminism. Why would you do that? I know this sub LOVES that idea, but think about the importance you're giving a bunch of idiot kids who many actual feminists don't actually want to be represented by.

You can take away their power, without even trying.

Look up kyriarchy and intersectional theory. Contrary to MRM belief, what they mean is that there are many, many, factors that go into determining someone's social standing. While the basics of the theory are a few decades old, it's not difficult to apply it to the modern era with a little more thought -

For example, how does race impact someone's life? Sexual identity? Gender identity? How about class? How about health? What about your own personal experiences?

Because Hillary Clinton obviously isn't hurting nearly as much as the men who die on the streets. And it helps if you know who Rebecca Walker is to feminism, and why she called bullshit on both her, and the entire second wave of feminism...

Your classmates will lose their moral high ground, before the real debate even begins.

By the way, be careful. If you try to only crush them in a debate, it'll backfire.

Make sure to ask them questions. If they say something wrong, questions, to make their mistake clear to your audience, are far more useful than accusations. You probably won't change their minds, but a debate is really about helping your audience choose a side.

Also, you may wish to avoid making this about a conflict of political groups during this debate. Keep the focus on the issues at all times, rather than driving potential allies to their side...

If they call you sexist, make sure they define it. Because if they fit that definition themselves, you might just score a knock-out blow.

Anyways, all of this advice is coming from a feminist. Do with it what you will. But we're not all the enemy.

Some of us are very passionate about men's rights.

Stalgrim · 2014-11-08T06:09:36+00:00

When those feminists start off in my seminar I accept no bullshit! I do a sociology degree and 1/2 of my seminars are infested with these toxic nuisances, the way I dealt with them was to be louder, factual and unkind. Don't feel like you have to be a gentleman to these cackling termagants, when they say something provably bullshit, when they say something offensive to the conscience, when they say something a 10 year old could see as illogical, say something then and there, at the very least it will make the others think twice before opening their mouths and vomiting idiocy into the conversation. I managed to get a few other girls and guys on board, the more you smack them down and show people that by disagreeing with a feminist you aren't automatically a misogynist the more people are willing to speak up when they hear something that doesn't make much sense.

My seminars are much more manageable now people know that nobody in there is willing to take any of their shit.

MittenMagick · 2014-11-08T12:27:08+00:00

A very common tactic in any persuasive scene is to adopt the language (language, not tactics, which is important) of your opponent and use it against them. Look at the buzzwords or themes of their arguments and turn it around.

For example, "privilege" is a common one. To start you off, there's a macro that I've seen circle here about how it's male "privilege" to be more likely to be a victim of murder, face a longer jail time for the same crime, etc. but there is no outcry to that from the feminists, who claim to want to be "equal".

Also, here is a post with a lot of information useful in debating the merits the feminism.

Title	Feminism and Highschool
Author	Razgriz16
Upvotes	15
Comments	19
Date	November 7, 2014 7:50 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2llx5m/feminism-and-highschool/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminism-and-highschool.1622682 https://theredarchive.com/post/1622682

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