FR: Progress on frame | MarriedRedPill

I have organised a work lunch with a long term buddy (friends >25yrs) today and as it turns out we're going to be catching up tomorrow and Sunday but in different environments, one with kids at sport and the other as a family event.

Last night my wife started questioning me about catching up 3 days in a row with my buddy. She asks "Don't you think it's too much catching up with him 3 days in a row? Won't you have nothing to talk about? And do you need to buy lunch?"

Old me would have gone straight to my phone and fired off a cancel message.

But I replied with "I could always cancel like he had to a few weeks back, but I'd like to catch up with him. I'd definitely cancel if you said you had a hotel room ready for a lunch alternative.", smiled and walked away.

She tried to hide a smirk, and then huffed a little and went about tidying up after dinner giving me the silent treatment.

Old me would have tried to DEER my way through it. New me smiles and goes off to take care of a few house tasks.

Later we're sitting on the couch watching TV and wife comes and cuddles me and says "You should go to lunch tomorrow. I shouldn't have questioned you like that". I smiled, hugged her and kissed her.

This morning, she was a bit quiet getting breakfast ready. As I was ready to leave, she came to me and said "I am sorry about the lunch thing last night, I think it is important you have time with your buddies. The next two days will be different environments and you can't talk your 'guy stuff' with kids and women about."

I'm sure old me would have been feeling super resentful towards the wife after the cancelling and DEERing for a day or three. New me has a wife who actually comes to me and apologises for her hamstering and bitchiness.

I feel happier than I have been for 10 years I think. And I have a wife that is slowly letting me take the helm again. I was a beta schlub for so long it will take a while to earn the captain position back again. But it is happening. I feel in control of my life again.

TL;DR: New me holding frame when wife's hamster tries to derail plans. Winning but still more to be done.

[–]stdrp8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]brotherpotatos4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]weakandsensitive14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

nah. there's a bunch of advanced stuff in that line. that's how you demonstrate engagement without any notion that you're going to change your plan.

"I could always cancel like he had to a few weeks back, but I'd like to catch up with him. I'd definitely cancel if you said you had a hotel room ready for a lunch smiled and walked away

let's break it down.

"I could always cancel like he had to a few weeks back,

I hear your concern and am willing to acknowledge it.

but I'd like to catch up with him.

Here is what I intend to do.

I'd definitely cancel if you said you had a hotel room ready for a lunch

Make me a better offer and I'll ditch him for you. (Scott Adam's calls this a win-win position. OP either goes and sees his buddy which he already wants to do or he gets a more enticing offer.)

smiled and walked away

Balls in wife's court. Now she has to take ownership of next steps, knowing that doing nothing is going to result in OP seeing his buddy.

But the key point here is that there was no real intention of changing the plans, but he did communicate the wife's concerns were heard and offered her a way to get her to change his mind.

If you ever heard the comments about Bill Clinton (and my own personal experience with our company's VP), they have a way of making you feel like you're the only person in the room of 1,000 people. That your concerns are important even if they don't end up acting on your concern. That type of leadership gets long term buy in.

Contrast that with the leader who you're never certain what's happening and what's going on with - the more bullying style. With the former, you know you're not getting the whole picture even though you know you're being heard. With the latter, you're not even sure if you've been heard - so you don't know how much trust to invest.

Obviously - this is not for newbies with shit leadership. The whole notion of generating buy in is predicated upon not having any intention of altering your plans. Newbies with no credibility don't get to do this. They'll get constantly challenged and questioned - and will have their lecturns wrecked.

The only thing I would've done differently (and I've done similar in my life) is I would've switched the structure and put my wants first.

"I'd like to catch up with him, but I could always cancel like he had to a few weeks back. I'd definitely cancel if you gave me a reason to."

Pretty basic qualification/negotiation techniques. Don't like my current plan? Make a better offer if you care to.

The after effect of this was now the wife had to put effort into making him change his plans and she didn't really want to do that anyway. So what does the smart woman do in a case where the man obviously wasn't going to change his mind? She hamsters that she was being unreasonable and unpleasant for no reason (nagging). Then she'll figure out how to convince herself that him seeing his buddies is a good thing and why she's happy to go along with the plan. (That takes the least amount of work if you want to take the solipsistic perspective.)

Now if there's no respect, she would've rationalized it as the guy being a selfish cunt as usual and her being taken for granted again. But in that situation, there was no win for the OP anyway and he should've ditched her a long time ago.

[–]Tebulus1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]stonepimpletilists 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]stonepimpletilists 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Nucka5741 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUsMRP APPROVED-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]weakandsensitive6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's about buy in.

For me, wife gets told all of my plans and she gets a veto. I don't tell her to get her approval - I tell her to let her know. And if there's an issue, she let me know she wants me to reconsider.

I went to KC for the weekend with a friend.

"Hey. I'm going to KC with a friend. Any issues with that? Do you need help with the baby?"

I pretty much expect an answer of no, but if there are legitimate issues - I know how to prioritize.

It's talking to inform versus talking for approval. The difference between the two is frame, as op points out. At the core of DEER for approval seeking behavior. If you don't give a shit about approval, then how can you actually DEER?

No I don't want you to go for <reasons>. (this is usually a congruence test "i'll miss you, blah blah blah")

Too bad? / Give me a reason not to go then.

[–]stonepimpletilists 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AustralianArm[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]freshona-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]rocknrollchuckMRP APPROVED1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]freshona0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]rocknrollchuckMRP APPROVED1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AustralianArm[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FireTempered 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]AustralianArm[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]FireTempered 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]stonepimpletilists 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FireTempered 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	FR: Progress on frame
Author	AustralianArm
Upvotes	29
Comments	28
Date	June 2, 2017 12:04 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/6eqw7i/fr_progress_on_frame/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/fr-progress-on-frame.198765 https://theredarchive.com/post/198765

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