Initiation and Escalation

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May 17, 2018

I've been on the MRP journey for about 6 months, and I'm feeling good about the changes I'm seeing. I'm lifting, I've read the sidebar, and my wife has commented about the changes to my body and my attitude in general.

One area where I still feel like I need a lot of help is physically initiating and escalating to sex. I've increased my flirtation and sexual talk with my wife, but I still have trouble taking things from watching tv on the couch to actually doing the deed. I used to get super whiny when I'd get turned down for sex, so I know I really need to work on being OI no matter what happens.

MMSLP has some good suggestions, but I was wondering if you guys have any other resources you would recommend for learning how to initiate and escalate.

Post Information
Title Initiation and Escalation
Author OhmsLawz
Upvotes 7
Comments 23
Date 17 May 2018 11:51 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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[–]johneyapocalypse4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy

"I used to get super whiny" = you still get super whiny.

Push through the mental barrier - the one in your own brain - and just fucking go for it. Then, don't sweat the rejection - seriously - consider it part of the process - and fucking do it.


I stayed in the zone you're talking about for a while - "going with the flow" but not really initiating much - and it didn't work.

You must make it happen.

It will be unnerving but it's a necessary part of your evolution.

[–]ice_walkerHead Negotiator2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

This advice i needed as well. Right now I’m in the same place as OP, and I’m also trying the “Go with the Flow”, so I only initiate seriously when I think there’s not going to be a rejection.

But one question, did you initiate no matter about previous rejections, or did you withdraw attention for a period before initiating again?

I’m asking because I see that initiating is also giving wife attention, and if I do it constantly, then I’m constantly giving her attention, thus devaluing it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

You’re thinking about it in the wrong way.

Going with the flow is monitoring her receptivity to advances aka ‘her frame’.

You initiate when you want it. If she is unreceptive you’ve a back up plan for what you would also like to do.

She’s gets attention but you get to demonstrate OI. Either way you control the interaction. Either you get some or you put her hamster to work.

Either way you’re reclaiming control of your life.

[–]ice_walkerHead Negotiator0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

That makes sense.

I have also started to think of sex as something I give to whom I choose, instead of something I desperately need from my wife. If wife is behaving like a total bitch, I don’t feel like having sex with her. Before I’d try to escalate anyway even if I knew she’d get pissed just to display my OI, but because I wasn’t genuine I only came off as needy and without options, hence trying to have sex with someone behaving like an asshole towards me, now instead I withdraw attention and/or presence on those occasions.

I have small hopes for my wife to change but learning these things is really good for the future, whatever it may hold.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I have small hopes for my wife to change but learning these things is really good for the future, whatever it may hold.

Here's a way to look at hope/expectation. It is like you are you are holding the door open to a new life with you for wife. You believe/hope she can walk through that door. But you expect nothing.

In this way you diminish your need to constantly evaluate her performance and your next actions in response to that. In this way you can liberate yourself from further reactivity and maintain a positive self determined frame.

[–]hack3ge1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I really like this analogy - I'm completely OI when it comes to initiation but I do find that I evaluate way too much. Its sort of an inherent weakness of mine being a very analytical person. I've found that if I want to fuck I'll initiate - lately that's been a lot but I don't just initiate for the sake of it.

I also read a really good post the other day about why initiating is important and not just going with the flow - basically you need to make sure your wife knows that you expect a sexual relationship and that you are conditioning her to this. If she continues to reject you that is her doing - once she starts feeling dread she should already be conditioned to understand what it is that you want most and how she can mitigate some of the anxiety she has.

I've been trying to stick to the 6 months of nice card and not withdraw attention but I am finding now that I really do have better things to do than sit and hang out with someone who is being a harpy or not interested in my attention.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I've been trying to stick to the 6 months of nice card and not withdraw attention but I am finding now that I really do have better things to do than sit and hang out with someone who is being a harpy or not interested in my attention.

Isn’t this strange! I know exactly what you’re talking about here. But how do we get to the rationale that doing what you would like is somehow not nice. That’s how conditioned we are!!!

[–]DanG30 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

“Nice is different than good.”

Note Little Red Riding Hood’s reaction to the beta’s (White Knight’s) kiss near the end.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Big time.

[–]ice_walkerHead Negotiator0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Like the analogy, will internalize

[–]OhmsLawz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great response, thanks for your help. It helps to re-frame it as a necessary part of my evolution.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I initiated a lot I'm the past mainly.because i am a needy prick, i usually get folded arms / borderline discust hard no's before i have even broken through the perimeter defenses. I keep up kino etc. Been like this 4 months, now I'm in monk mode as it's a waste of time otherwise. My current strategy is to continue kino but not initiate as often until my smv is higher and i become the man other women want to fuck... but the meantime develop OI. I like steeltoes idea of putting her on my shoulder and taking her upstairs so i may give that a go

[–]2ndalRed Beret5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

I had this problem and it turns out the root issue was shame. I shouldn't have these thoughts. What would she think about me if she knew what I was thinking? God, I think about sex all the time, how can I stop that? She's a woman, she needs to be coddled, I need to warm her up for sex. I can't show her the real me.

You initiate by initiating. There's nothing more to it, really.

Remove the blue filter that exists between your brain and your actions. Like the way her ass cheek is hanging out of her pajama shorts as she sits on the couch? Don't just look at it like a dweeb and try to push away your attraction. Slide your hand on it and give her a kiss.

Are you horny? Grab her from behind and kiss her neck in a way that says "I want to fuck you, now." Or make it even easier and say "I want to fuck you, now" while you do it.

Mix it up. Make it playful sometimes, make it serious sometimes.

Quit thinking so much. Quit trying to devise the perfect method. Quit trying to smooth talk or masterfully escalate like Don Juan. Those things will come more naturally with time. For now, when you are attracted and you want to fuck, make it known in whatever way you choose and then take action.

[–]OhmsLawz[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for the great response, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I gotta get out of my own head.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You and half the guys who ask questions here.

[–]markpf731 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And for fucks sake OP don’t ever use the phrase “doing the deed” again.

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Back when my wife wasn't all fucked up from the c-section, I'd throw her ass over my shoulder bring her into the bedroom and throw her on the bed. You said you have been lifting. Be careful with the head around door frames and bedposts.

You are thinking too much. You are seeking approval too much.

Take what you want.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I find kino to be a great tool for "prediciting the weather". If my wife is cold and distant to my kino (not smirking or leaning in to my touches), there's a high probability of getting "I'm not in the mood" with a slight chance of pity starfish sex. Predicting the weather, so to speak, allows me to accept the rejection before it even happens. Which makes it A LOT easier to deal with. And sometimes if I predict a rejection on the horizon, I won't even bother escalating and will go do something else. Your time is valuable. If she isn't giving you any buying signals, do you really want to waste your time with her?

Now if she is responsive (i.e. smirks when you grab her ass, closes her eyes or tilts her head back when you rub the small of her back, etc)...these are signals of clear skies ahead. The other day my wife grabbed my ass while passing me in the kitchen (she kino's me back frequently now), so I knew how easy she was going to be and that's exactly when I followed her upstairs and banged her from behind in front of the bathroom mirror in the middle of the day with the kids awake and making noise in the next room.

Kino is not a tool to only utilize when you want to get laid though. You should be doing it all the time. Sometimes be sweet with it, sometimes be crude and dirty. Switch it up. Be unpredictable. See what happens.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

So you base your actions on how you think she'll react? What's the opposite of OI again?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Would you change your strategy when playing different opponents in chess? Would you alter your approach for different people/personalities when closing on a sale? If I know the mood and mindset of my target, I can adapt my strategy and tailor it to get the best outcome. Thinking you have to be Mr. Billy Badass all the time is what leads guys to becoming Rambo.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

i've never had problems with my marriage (it's not why i came here initially), but something i've noticed is that when i'm really humming along in my life (meaning everything is really on point and/or i'm spinning several plates) i never need to initiate

i know it's touted like a cold hard fact here that it's a man's job to initiate and you just have to do it even if you get rejected, but i tend to think that if i'm feeling the need to snap HER out of HER groove in order to have sex with ME instead of the other way around, it usually means i'm getting soft

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stop sitting on the couch watching TV, for starters. Find other more interesting things to do together that make you the center of attention and provider of feelz. Or just initiate before screen time. Once the great distraction machines get revved up it can be hard to switch focus to something else. And it’s a lot more relaxing to veg out AFTER you’ve fucked each other’s brains out.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you have read the entire sidebar you would have read book like Pook and know what DEVI is.

So fo back and get out of the beginner section of the sidebar.

Dont ask us to do the work for you when it is literally there.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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