707,481 posts

Update: Definitely shouldn't relent. Facing pure manipulation.

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March 5, 2018
13 upvotes

8 days ago I posted: https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7zz2b6/should_i_relent_wife_going_batshit_at_minor/

5'11, 212, 24% via Navy Method, 155bp, 250sq, 275dl

As a forward -- I'm still ahead of my skis. I continue to want to punt this conversation and cave but her bullshit has me taking the most minor stand ever, which apparently will lead to divorce(?!?). I benefit from being the settler (I could be with a higher SMV mate reasonably quickly; she would very likely be downgrading) due to an unplanned pregnancy. My mind has wandered to separation/divorce and it doesn't scare me. I'm eating 1.75kcal/day with tons of protein, lifting every other day, always reading, getting better.

Since the last post, I continued on being happy, keeping the house in order, playing with the kids, etc. Cold shoulder from her, silent treatment. She opened up a bit in the past 2 days. Tonight, she said we need to chat and that she wasn't happy.

Her: rehashing why she's sleeping in the guest bedroom
Me: being a bit autistic and taking a long time to respond, letting her keep talking, lamely trying to fog, back and forth, I eventually explain my boundary that I don't apologize when I haven't done anything I deem wrong
Her: It's so hurtful that you can't just apologize, that you don't care that I'm upset
Me: I don't want you to be upset (had this cycle a ton of times, my mindset/language was that I don't want to hurt her, but keeping my strict I-own-my-actions boundary)
Negative assertion around it's crazy that I can't just apologize type stuff.

It came up that she thought she was co-dependent and that I was independent. That I was a better person than her because I could control my emotions.

She says we should consider a separation. I say that I don't want to separate, but we should if our situation is completely not acceptable, we can proceed. She cries. We go back to the beginning of the conversation.

I tried to give her a path back on every cycle of the conversation, "I want you to be on our team, on our family's team, I don't want to separate," which was rebuffed by shit like, "I can't be with someone that doesn't care when I'm hurt." Whenever I'd say, "I love you + other shit" to give some comfort, she shut down. She's stubborn. I'm not savvy enough to know if this has turned into a comfort test; I tried to hedge for this and it failed.

After cycle #whatever, she pushed on separation and said she didn't want to leave the house. I told her I didn't either. She spewed her shit about this being my fault for not caving. I told her, "I won't be leaving the house." She said, "Wow -- I can't believe you'd act like this. I always thought if we had these problems it could be amicable." I STFU'd, she hemmed and hawed then said, "You have friends you could stay with. Your parents. Bachelor friends. I have no one!" STFU "I'd have to rent" then 2 minutes of silence later she says she'd have to figure out her budget and shit. No idea if I handled this properly. Simply stated my stance.

After this, she got up to leave. I tried to give her a hug, she was not at all into it and said, "you've broken a lot of things here. I can't believe you." Starts crying and walking away. The manipulation knows no bounds.

I did almost no DEERing, which was the hardest fucking thing in my life. She said things like, "You're not willing to fight for this?" and "Why is it so hard to just apologize to make other people feel better?" YOU WANT TO SEPARATE FROM YOUR PRETTY FUCKING SWEET HUSBAND, HIS SOCIAL CIRCLE (WHICH YOU'RE ONLY KIND OF A PART OF) AND A NUCLEAR FAMILY BECAUSE HE DOESN'T... APOLOGIZE ENOUGH AND SOMETIMES MAKES DECISIONS WITHOUT YOUR INPUT? Holy. Shit. We have no business being here.

I went Rambo months ago. I'm not Rambo'ing here. I haven't really done anything except set a single boundary and hold to it. I'm still playing Varsity as a Freshman, I'm sure I fucked a ton of stuff up. Please, let me have it.

Also, to add, weekly to dos:

  1. Meet with a lawyer
  2. Lift

Post Information
Title Update: Definitely shouldn't relent. Facing pure manipulation.
Author reallythatfast
Upvotes 13
Comments 35
Date 05 March 2018 04:18 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204747
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/823bhk/update_definitely_shouldnt_relent_facing_pure/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
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Comments

[–]BobbyPeru14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy

I think you’re past comfort test.

If it was me, if she says she wants to separate, I’d throw a DNGAF attitude at her and say, “if you want out, the door is right here.” This is sidebar 101 stuff.

The whole thing is so blown out of proportion. I can’t help but wonder if she’s getting ready for a branch swing.

Definitely stick to your guns about not leaving the residence.

[–]reallythatfast[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

If she swings, holy shit, good for her. Would totally blindside me. But, hey, AWALT.

Your blown out of proportion comment, of course it is. Why? Is she a psycho? Is this situation a testament to what a slave of her's I was? There has to be a driving force.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

What he is saying is taht she is broken. She knows the deal. She really doesn't want to leave. This is kind of a "soft" main event.

Firm hand. Tough love.

Ignore the reason for all this. That is meaningless. Look what she does not what she says. What does that tell you?

[–]classicthrowaway860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Bump

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Heh, guess she was swinging after all. AWALT as always. Everyone thinks their women is a special case.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy

All this talk and fake posturing by TWO weak fucking people. Her AND you. Two sorry sacks of shit.

Just STFU and hate fuck her already. Jesus this shit isn’t that hard.

You are not leaving and she isn’t branch swinging yet. Give her the dick she desperately needs.

Gym 7 days a week. 1500cals a day. See the difference 3 months of that will make.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just STFU and hate fuck her already. Jesus this shit isn’t that hard.

Quit spying on my comments before I make them..

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just STFU and hate fuck her already. Jesus this shit isn’t that hard.

You are not leaving and she isn’t branch swinging yet. Give her the dick she desperately needs.

Gym 7 days a week. 1500cals a day. See the difference 3 months of that will make.

Gold

[–]cm-man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Such good advice on this sub!

[–]InChargeManRed Beret7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

IMO she knows she has the short end of the stick and is trying to find a weak spot. According to you her SMV is low (I hope not too low, which makes me question you...), her social circle sucks, and she doesn't have a means to support herself. I don't believe she wants a divorce. Regarding the apology stuff, make sure you can differentiate between the means and the ends. Not apologizing isn't the win, so don't make that the hill you die on. i.e. you can tell her you are sorry all day while fucking her in the ass... If you get what you want does it really matter? I'm a fan of being "sorry you feel that way" or "I can understand why that would upset you." i.e. I wouldn't have done anything different, but do wish it didn't end with your feels being hurt. Check out my post on I'm Sorry.

In a related note, look at the post by u/bogeyd6 regarding giving your wife an "out" and helping to guide her back to the fold while keeping her head high. If that means you have to say things you don't mean, that is fine. Sometimes you need to give the smallest token just to allow her hamster something to grab onto and convince herself that she was rightTM and that you have changed. For reference, this is why Chad can fuck the entire women's volleyball team and come back home with 6 roses and a box of chocolates and be forgiven because "he's changed".

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

And don't cross the road if you can't get out of the kitchen. Seems like everyone forgets that you are building an empire, not razing one.

[–]weakandsensitive13 points14 points  (7 children) | Copy

PFFFFFFFFFFTTTT

that's the sound of you getting wrecked.

you acted like a woman trying to hug it out and are surprised that you aren't treated like a man.

why play these games if you don't have your shit lined up? have papers ready so this bullshit doesn't get escalated as manipulative tools.

you've been a meek beta bitch for many, many years. now you think you've got a spine? you're setting yourself to get fucked pussy - and real, real hard.

still fat (27%), 211 pounds.

Keep on dreaming. You're going to get treated like the fat repulsive tub of lard you are.

If you were 5'11", 170, and 11% body fat, this would be an entirely different conversation.

If you had the mental fortitude and self respect of someone who wasn't a beta bitch for the past 3 decades, this would be an entirely different conversation. It would've been

She says they're going to get towed.

"No there isn't."

End of conversation. And none of this stupid, inane bullshit should've happened.

But no, you are a fat, overweight, weak pussy who gets treated exactly as you are. You should shut the fuck up, accept it, and take all of your wife's shit until such a time that you actually have the capacity to not deserve it anymore. Right now, you're a tub of fat, saggy lard both physically and mentally. At least have the decency to act like it too instead of thinking you're hot shit because you went on some faggoty internet forum and asked a whole bunch of retards for validation while managing to piss everyone who matters off.

See, the nice thing about askMPR is that it takes a lot of stupidity for people to not jerk your ego off. That's why it exists. This is where people go to feel good about themselves by helping the special kids.

[–]stonewall19795 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

/u/reallythatfast, you really need to read this one again, with out your ego in the way and fucking with you. If you read this post as if it was from another MRPer you'd think the same way as W&S. But because it's you posting, you think its different, that youre a snowflake.

When a woman says she wants to separate, or mentions separation, if you're nice you pack her bags for her and leave them at the door for her, or you throw her shit out the window. Have at least a little back bone in this.

When separation is brought up, all the rules of the game change, talk won't cut it anymore and really never did. She's already made decisions and is just biding her time, getting madder at you so she can rationalize her fucking you over as "he was horrible to me, mean, abusive. I deserve all of his 401k, IRA's, the house, kids, the dog and 75% of his income because he was so mean to me for so long." She wants to be the victim and garner support from her social media accounts and "friends". Essentially, your enemy is positioning the players on the field while your pushing your head in the sand hoping this will fix itself. You're delusional if you think she doesn't have an exit strategy and men lined up.

You found MRP 4 months ago, went Rambo, and she's calling you on your shit because she knows it's just a show, just some lights and smoke. She knows it, and she's been conditioned to go right to crazy level 10 because it's what has worked for her for years.

If you don't kick her ass to the curb, she's going to go to crazy level 11, then 12, and create level 13.

Lawyer up, protect yourself, start planning for the worst case scenario. Make plans for 6 & 12 months out. If you don't have kids, get the fuck out, because you don't have the grit to make this marriage work and she doesn't want your version of marriage anyway. You're better off to follow Rollo's advise in Rule #7. Take the trash to the curb, walk away, never look back, and start fresh.

You can say I'm full of shit, but I'm living out the worst case scenario right now. Had oneitis, thought I was a special fat snowflake, that talking or counseling would help. Filed for divorce after finder her affair, she lost her shit when I truly DGAF any more, because why would I care about a woman who cheated on me? She made my home life a living hell while the divorce was pending, then she went to 12 called in trumped up domestic violence on me. I was arrested, jailed for a night, removed from my home, and see my kids 3 out of 4 weekends while the divorce and domestic violence cases are pending. The arrest happened in October. This has been four months and counting of absolute bullshit.

So I know full well where you're headed, I lived with batshit crazy for years, and she found a way to ramp it up. And I only make a quarter of what you make for income. Your future ex has a lot more to gain and you have a lot more to lose if you don't grow a pair now and handle your shit properly. Find a lawyer with some sharp teeth and protect yourself or we'll see your posts in six months about how you got raped in divorce court.

[–]reallythatfast[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you.

[–]470_2_700_nm1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was trying t find lift numbers and body fat percentage. Why don’t we make it mandatory to post those numbers before an AskMRP post gets started?

That’s all OP needs to hear: your fat, you are out of shape. Don’t worry about the rest of it. Fix that first.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They were from the last post. I didn't feel like touching it because... well, meh.

This one's a fatass walking down divorce alleyway.

[–]reallythatfast[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I need to kill my ego, while I continue to build myself to catch up to it. You spew cold reality, my appreciation.

You should shut the fuck up, accept it, and take all of your wife's shit until such a time that you actually have the capacity to not deserve it anymore.

What's your advice on weathering the storm until I have this capacity?

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are a fat, overweight bitch who gets treated exactly as he deserves.

At some point, you'll get to her worrying about you leaving her. That means you're there physically.

At some point, your mental point of origin will change. Her input is exactly that, input. That means you're closer mentally. Until then, read the post verbal intercourse is optional.

Understand dark triad, leverage where useful. Play the long game instead of the short one where your ego is going to fuck you.

Start WISNIFG (again ideally), then apologize with fogging. You don't want to be divorce fucked as a weak minded fat beta.

Read the divorce posts from MRO main sidebar. There's great advice there.

Oh yeah, last thing, don't go out of your way to make her fucking problem (sleeping in the guest room) your fucking problem.

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

u/reallythatfast. To give you an idea of the time tables for when it happened to me.

At some point, you'll get to her worrying about you leaving her. That means you're there physically.

Yup. That took me about a year of lifting. Now she absentmindedly rubs my arms.

At some point, your mental point of origin will change. Her input is exactly that, input. That means you're closer mentally.

This took me 6-8 months realistically.

Of course I was not in the same situation as u/reallythatfast. I was not being asked to kill the puppy, instead i was being asked to step up and be the man she thought she married.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Being the most resilient pinching bag in the house does not equate to frame

[–]reallythatfast[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

For the past week, my frame has been (a) I am my own judge and own my actions, and (b) my kids' future is priority #1. For (b), being under the same roof is optimal.

Being a #2 captain @ DL2 with a lot of work to do, my understanding/internalization from various STFU + feels posts was that these "fights" would happen and not giving anything to swing at and maintaining boundaries within my frame is optimal.

Being a punching bag seems like a natural result. What's the option/strategy I'm missing? Should I have not let the conversation happen?

Any advice/criticism is helpful.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

In your place? I don't know how helpful it would be, since I'm glossing over how I get from A to B, but you asked:

A friend of mine, Jason. Had a 35 year old plate when he was 28 who accidentally got pregnant; AFTER he broke up wither her. Stuck it out for the kids after he got a DNA test. She was a vicious french drinker. I'm usually provocative when being social, and she was having none of it. One day, at a friends place, she brough their 6 month old son, and was drinking. She then attacked me in front of everyone. I laughed, since I know how to handle myself. I put her in my guard and just held her there and told her to calm the fuck down. Eventually, she said she would, so I eased up.

Then she bit me, hard. I put her back in the guard, looked up at him, like "You gonna handle this, or do I need to?" He just shrugged and started laughing, guess this isnt' her first time.

So I threw her in a triangle choke until she finally tapped, and told her if she came at me again, Im knocking her out cold. She chilled out, Jason took her home. Eventually, he had enough and told he he is taking the kids if she drinks again. She's still a psycho (this isn't the first story I have with her either) but she doesn't try it on me, and shes manageable when shes sober.

Psycho chicks have no problems fighting in front of their children, they are just psychos. Put that shit down hard, and fast, or she will continune. They know how to behave. In my example, this girl was a senior logistics officer. She'd be on the fucking CF diversity poster if she weren't so homely.

So back to you. At the time, take the kids, get out of the house. She will run wild on it, let her, you can't stop her without you going to jail (thanks femenism)

In the morning, chastise her like a child. Trot her in front of the kids. have her apologize for (and be specific) being a cunt to them, and accusing them of being little murderers, and swearing to them it won't happen again. You tell her she doesn't get to drink until you are certain she can keep her shit together. Girls don't know honour, loyalty, only shame. So lean heavily on that. The words Bad Mother have particular sting to them. If you have a social event for the family, suggesting she is not coming can drive the point home. Most women will fear being thought of as a bad mother in front of the other women.

So, like the dog, it's not his fault he is pissing on the floor, he is a dog, and wants to make you happy, he just doesn't know how, and his natural instinct is to pee in the same spot everytime. Setup a new spot, put pee there so he gets the hint, and realize, if he pees in the corner again, it's because you weren't managing him properly.

Hate the dog if you want, but while he's in your house, he will behave.

[–]2ndalRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

every once in a while my wife and i will get in a cycle where she's acting like a little brat and i'll let it impact my frame and she can sense it

she pounces!

you're a jerk, she says.

yep

what's wrong with you? she asks

nothin

but of course she knows it's not nothin' because she's a woman and she can read my body language like a romance novel

nothin' i reiterate

mmhmmm, she says

and we go our separate ways for a few hours, sometimes overnight

i let there be space because i think it's necessary and, hey, i don't really want to be around her, not when she's acting like that

and then finally, a few hours later, maybe the next day, once I am feeling ready to move on and re-engage, i'll walk up to her, grab her around the waist, and breath heavy into her ear: so you ready to drop the bullshit and move on with our lives? and start pulling down her pants

she'll usually offer up some resistance -- never physical, take-your-paws-off-me resistance, always verbal rehashes like you're the one being the jerk!

and i don't engage at all, maybe offer up a mmhmm yep while i bury my fingers in her pussy and bite her neck

and by the time we're done fucking we have both completely moved on

my point here is i am doing all of this on my own terms.

i'm not perfect, i handle shit wrong regularly. nobody can always be on point all the time

but i don't give any weight to her emotions. i acknowledge them and remove myself and when i am composed, re-engage on my own terms

i don't engage with her verbal tirades, i don't try to make logical sense of it, i don't negotiate with it, i don't offer up ultimatums or peace offerings, or invitations

i give myself space and then when i am ready i bring her back

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Cold shoulder from her, silent treatment. She opened up a bit in the past 2 days. Tonight, she said we need to chat and that she wasn't happy.

We have to talk about our relationship. Great! What could possibly go wrong?

she thought she was co-dependent and that I was independent.

This is interesting. What do you think it means?

I'm not savvy enough to know if this has turned into a comfort test

It was. You failed. The next quote is how I know.

You're not willing to fight for this?" and "Why is it so hard to just apologize to make other people feel better?

"Sweety, I am so sorry that you feel bad."

There, how fracking hard was that?

I'm not Rambo'ing here

Ummmmm.....You may not be An Autistic Rambo or even a Rambo but.....dude, you don't have a clue about the emotional states of your wife.

I think the entire source of this conflict is that you have taken STFU into checking out and truly NGAF. She knows. You guys are talking divorce and lawyer logistics. You led her right into that discussion but unfortunately this is the first time I have noticed you leading.

STFU "I'd have to rent" then 2 minutes of silence later she says she'd have to figure out her budget and shit. No idea if I handled this properly.

If you want a Divorce it was handled great! The pregnant pauses would have really messed with her mind.

If you want to stay married, this needs to be handled differently. The solution to a checked out husband and an emotionally withdrawn wife is not to get more distant.

YOU WANT TO SEPARATE FROM YOUR PRETTY FUCKING SWEET HUSBAND, ?HIS SOCIAL CIRCLE (WHICH YOU'RE ONLY KIND OF A PART OF) AND A NUCLEAR FAMILY BECAUSE HE DOESN'T... APOLOGIZE ENOUGH AND SOMETIMES MAKES DECISIONS WITHOUT YOUR INPUT? HUSBAND BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT FEEL EMOTIONALLY CONNECTED.

Thought I would fix that for you.

Your solution, if you want to stay married is not more Stoicism and half ass kino and hugs but to ATTUNE. Check out my previous post on Gottman and do it for one week and post again.

[–]reallythatfast[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this. I had missed it before -- the ATTUNE method seems like a solid prescription. We haven't made much progress, I'm going to start it post haste.

[–]2235521 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The whole interaction sounds like "where do you want to have dinner? You decide , no you decide.. etc. Etc..." except replace dinner with divorce.

This is an opportunity to be more assertive, and stick to you boundaries. You are still influenced by her emotions, and she is playing you. The whole divorce talk, wanting you to apologize, cold shoulder, not talking, pushing your buttons, is all about getting you back into her frame.

Its hard in the moment not to get sucked into the drama, but keep practicing. You will notice if you are assertivie and firm, 5 min later she will act as if nothing happened.

[–]mrpthrowa1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

just smile and reset in the morning like nothing happened

give her the happy card for a few months

if she keeps being happy, smile stfu and offer comfort in the form of actions like hug and face cupping

eventually she'll learn that the only way to play forward is to go down this path

then fuck her like you want and desire every part of her body


make no mistake though. her get out of the house talk sounds a little dangerous. document everything. watch out for bogus escalations and possible bogus dv

[–]reallythatfast[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ty for feedback. Makes sense, but i think it's her notion of separation (Mad Men, etc) that the husband leaves. We shall see.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My wife did a week of this shit non stop. You have to just hold firm. Eventually, she'll give in but only if your frame stays stronger.

Is she really thinking of divorce? Is she really going to move out?

What difference does it make? It should make none if you're doing this right.

Personally I think you are still in her frame. Certainly you are being far too affected by this.

Stand your ground, keep your boundaries, don't tolerate disrespect.

[–]subl1m1nal0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Woah, she's pregnant and you're trying this? She is fucked up hormonally. You need to ease into this.

[–]reallythatfast[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She isn't pregnant. Not sure where you got that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I personally like being open about the reason why I’m doing stuff. If something she is doing amounts to emotional manipulation and boundary testing I’d let her know I know that. No you don’t want to see her upset, but you won’t abide not respecting reasonable boundaries nor will you abide emotional manipulation that controls discourse. Usually that brings matters to a swift close, because all responses are simply rehashes of the same thing. They tend to decide if they can live with the new normal quickly. And usually the answer is they won’t.

[–]reallythatfast[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Isn't this DEERing?

[–]SeamusAwl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

DEERing is just verbally puking out your emotions. You can also hold a normal conversation with women. Kind of like doing dishes and/or laundry is choreplay covert contract. Or it could be you owning your shit. It is the mental motivation behind what you are doing.

In this case u/Ex_Swm_Lfw is setting and holding his boundaries.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good point. I guess you could call it that under the strictest sense. So you may not want to do this if you are opposed to ever explaining your motivations.

But it is a two part action, inform and disarm. Establish new boundary for disagreements and stick to it.

The reason why I like it is because it sets that new boundary in the framework of conflict. That boundary discounts all emotional appeals. Critical you do not budge on that.

That puts he ball in her court. She can either approach reasonably, let the matter drop, or, go nuclear and end the relationship in emotional escalation. No further action is required on your part, other than ignoring further appeals to emotion. There is no option that allows her to get her way with emotions. And I think that’s the most important part of establishing a new dynamic for disagreement.

Your thoughts.



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