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[–]Irisandoleander [score hidden] 9 years ago stickied comment (1 child) | Copy Link
Hi /u/MetalDevils your post has been removed as we are not a debate sub. Our sidebar is fully populated and easily accessible for you to read. If you have specific questions please feel free to reach out to the mod team. Your post is low quality and we don't need to justify ourselves. The other users have responded to your basic question though.
TBP was created to criticize TRP. Are you actually interested in engaging on this topic or are you trying to get enough responses to have a laugh at?
TBP was created to criticize TRP.
Are you actually interested in engaging on this topic or are you trying to get enough responses to have a laugh at?
[–]tintedlipbalm6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Have you checked out the sidebar? It's very complete :)
[–]ThatStepfordGalEarly 20s, LTR5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I like the idea of accepting reality.
[–]MetalDevils points points points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Do you think reality can be subjective and different among people?
[–]ThatStepfordGalEarly 20s, LTR1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Not when it comes to biology, biological and gender differences.
I see a lot of claims of behavior driven by biology, and then the brushing aside of people that don't fit the norm (gays, bis, lesbians, trans). How and why does RP claim to know all about nature and biology while ignoring those groups? I understand that the number of people within those groups are not as numerous as the heterosexual slice, but I'm not sure a solid theory should try to sweep them under the rug.
It seems like a definite weakness in the overall theory so far. African Americans and Native Americans don't make up the bulk of western population right now, but at one time Native Americans were, and the demographics are still shifting.
There are many examples of non monogamous, gay, and free-floating sexual networks throughout the animal kingdom. There are animals that can change their sex to meet the needs of their environment, and males that are the main caretakers. There are also lots of examples of monogamous and lifetime pairs too of course. Wouldn't rp be more accurate to say that it is simply one type of biologically focused theory and acknowledge that it doesn't encompass everything? Maybe it's how dismissive rp theory is of groups that don't fall into the largest slice that causes a lot of criticism? Just a thought!
[–]ThatStepfordGalEarly 20s, LTR0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Of course, there are always exceptions. That is to me, a personal rule. What I meant I by biology is in general, if everyone was exactly the same that would be quite boring!
I agree that sameness without variation or differences would be very boring! Thank you for explaining.
[–]ThatStepfordGalEarly 20s, LTR0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's alright. All I meant is this as a general rule.
[–]teaandtalk29, married 6 years, together 80 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
How and why does RP claim to know all about nature and biology while ignoring those groups?
No one is saying that everything TRP says is true of everyone (AWALT aside). But given that 95% of the population is not (source), it's worth considering as relevant to the majority.
Thanks for the source. If I read it correctly though, that's still ten million people. When that many people have been killed, it certainly hasn't been considered insignificant. I know there are also people that identify as pan...and other terms that I'm not really informed on.
Do you think it is easier or harder for people in smaller groups like that (gay, trans, pan) to find people to date and marry?
[–]teaandtalk29, married 6 years, together 80 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If I read it correctly though, that's still ten million people.
Sure, but this isn't a place for them or a series of ideas relevant to them. Just as I don't read lesbian dating tips, because they're not relevant to me. Does that mean that queer publications should stop publishing things? Nothing is one-size-fits-all.
Eh, obviously they have a smaller pool within which to date/marry. And obviously marriage isn't allowed to many of them in most countries. But all my LGBTQ+ friends seem to have an okay time - maybe because they're less picky because they know the pool is smaller? As they say, the second date for lesbians is picking out curtains.
[–]teaandtalk29, married 6 years, together 86 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
TBP was created to criticise TRP. And that's okay, as long as they're not being inappropriate (doxxing, personal attacks, etc). I don't want to live in a bubble where we don't assess & critique things that are written.
Why am I 'red pill'? I have realised that there are a lot of innate differences between men and women that much of mainstream society doesn't acknowledge. Does it mean that I think all women are one way, and all men are another way, and there's no overlap or variance? Not at all! But being aware of the general tendencies really helps my relationships, because I'm more attuned to the nuances of what men (generally) want and what I (as a woman) can provide.
I don't think all posters in TRP have healthy mindsets, but nor do I think all the posters in TBP do, or /r/relationships (heck no). You can learn a lot of things when you realise that no-one is perfect, and nothing is black-and-white. You can realise that men and women are different without thinking that they should have different rights or are worth more/less.
Thanks for the response!
What are the major traits of women do you think? And men?
I will be looking at the sidebar, I just noticed that I missed your comment!
[–]teaandtalk29, married 6 years, together 80 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think I'd be qualified to quantify the 'major traits' of each, but an example: women are generally more interested in/suited to nurturing babies. While a large part of that is obviously socialization, it's also been demonstrated in monkeys (see this article for a brief, non-scientific outline) . Does that mean they're inferior? Heck no! But does it point to there being other innate differences? Yes. And obviously, there's such a vast range that you can't say that all women are innately suited to childrearing, and all men aren't - but generalising can help provide advice & suggestions that will be appropriate for a lot of people.
[–]rpw111528married 5yrs | ENFJ | LLL | 2 kids2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
u/phantomdream09 - you're so popular - they love you over on TBP.
Sorry, OP, I read your post history. Given that you're coming in with a pretty severe bias, I don't think it's likely for anything we say to register as anything other than "trophy wife Stockholm syndrome" to you.
I just mentioned to another user that I definitely made the post while in shock. They pointed out that it's unfair to pick the unpopular opinion thread, but it seemed like the ideas are very popular here? I did write in another comment on TBP that I don't like to judge people on race, sex, sexual orientation, geographical location (if you get the drift). I realized that I was doing exactly that with the thread. That's why I mentioned it in my post, I wanted to try and talk to people here and learn if I can. Someone here told me to read the sidebar and I will after I finish responding.
Users on TBP told me that trying to engage with rp directly would be a waste of time, they may be right but I thought I should try. I didn't delete or hide anything. I'll also say that the user profile I was linked to seemed to be unfairly judged in terms of participation. The bp user said that half their activity was split between TBP and here. I checked it out, and that isn't true. The last post made was a year ago to TBP.
I figured if they could be mistaken about posting habits....they might be mistaken about other things.
Do you think it would be preferable to not try, or ask? I do want to give things a fair shake, and at least try to understand, regardless of if I ultimately agree.
[–]rpw111528married 5yrs | ENFJ | LLL | 2 kids1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I wanted to try and talk to people here and learn if I can.
Fair enough. Much like the actual Matrix, most people do experience a little bit of "wtf" when they encounter RP ideas for the first time, because they are so different from what is mainstream. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and engage.
Someone here told me to read the sidebar and I will after I finish responding.
Yep - the sidebar is the go-to resource for the basics, but it also always nice to have someone to talk back and forth to while reading, in case of clarification etc.
Users on TBP told me that trying to engage with rp directly would be a waste of time, they may be right but I thought I should try.
We get a lot of people who come to attack rather than engage, so RP subs tend to be pretty defensive, much like other "counterculture" arenas.
I'll also say that the user profile I was linked to seemed to be unfairly judged in terms of participation. The bp user said that half their activity was split between TBP and here. I checked it out, and that isn't true. The last post made was a year ago to TBP.
I believe Phantom (the user in question, pinged above) engages a lot here, but also on /r/PurplePillDebate - a crossover area where redpill and bluepill folks can discuss/argue ideas (thus, purple). I don't know much about her post history, though, but she's definitely a valuable and helpful mod here. :)
Do you think it would be preferable to not try, or ask?
Again, most of the time you're going to get redirected to the sidebar, but it can be overwhelming. So, if I had to give a 500 words or less summary of Red Pill Wives, this would be my stab at it:
For women, Red Pill ideology consists of being aware of the innate biological differences and tendencies of men and women, and using those to achieve our desired outcome of having a happy, stable marriage. The red pill ideology is a series of tools and methodologies to create this happy, sexually exciting, and, importantly, imbalanced marriage - one that has one and only one clear leader. Here, we generally strive to make ourselves better and more psychologically feminine. In doing so, we free our husband to become better and more masculine and free our marriage to become more harmonious, passionate, and efficient. It is not a Stockholm syndrome ideology, as we are acutely aware of our man's fault, but instead of harping, nagging, and complaining, we accept that we can only change ourselves, and being inviting, feminine, and supportive is the best way to give him the space and support he needs to be the best possible version of himself.
Other ladies, feel free to nitpick.
Thanks for the response.
I don't know if it was you or someone else, but they mentioned how a personal choice in their relationship lead to a lot of scrutiny and disapproval and personal attacks from TBP. Relationships are personal and I think whatever works for a couple is their business. I guess if they are being violent and shitty to others then that changes things.
Okay another sub!? I may check it out later. Right now there's already a lot.
I appreciate the focus on personal responsibility. At this point I'm not sure I understand how some situations could work with only self action though. I'll have to think on it as I read.
I don't understand the matrix reference. As in the movie?
[–]tintedlipbalm0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Definitely check out PurplePillDebate since it was made precisely to debate the ideas you find so horrible. The blue/red pill reference comes from the movie.
[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There's a few superstars they love over there. phantom, the professor, RPS...
I think once you've posted enough, you get your own personal blue stalker, like an achievement.
[–]rpw111528married 5yrs | ENFJ | LLL | 2 kids1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
#goals xD
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link
I posted on TBP once, to respond to one of my comments was being misunderstood, the outragey tone is a bit too much.
I post here because I like the people who post here and think they give good advice which works for my marriage, and if i am tempted to act up some of the things here help remind me what I want to act like.
What did you post about? That's a good point. I know that sub is against red pill, and I asked if people had talked to users here. The response was that it's a waste of time and doesn't work.
I'm sure they have more experience than I do, but I'm still learning. I said in another comment that I don't like to judge people based on race, sex, sexual orientation, where they live...and I realized that I was doing exactly that with my TBP post.
That's why I decided to comment here and hear from RP directly. I know my post there was made from shock. I just saw it on the list and clicked it. That may have been a mistake, and soeone else told me to check out the sidebar which I plan to do as well.
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link
I posted in an "unpopular opinion thread" here that I disliked keeping current with politics so I asked my husband who to vote for. TBP assumed I was ignorant and basically stupid for asking for the advice of a man I admire who is politically active how best to vote.
I pointed out I am well educated (specifically in politics too!), but that keeping informed through the news is not something which helps me be happy, and that my experience with politics had made it a source of anxiety.
I can't remember how but I also ended up arguing with someone about my fitness as a mother, which was pretty hurtful.
The sidebar and the wiki are good for understanding the ideas around here, hope it helps
I guess there's a difference between personal opinions about groups of things (for example: I still have a hard time seeing what's wrong with single moms) and personal opinions about how you live your life. I don't think it's nice that you were attacked about things that you do for yourself or in your relationship. Attacking larger ideas seems less about the person and more about the idea. You did something that works for you, they may have wanted to attack the idea but really they only focused on you.
A better, less hurtful way would have been to say in a more general way what the thoughts are about voting and staying informed, how to handle stress, and how mothers deal with fitness.
I don't know if that makes sense or not? You should not have been the subject, the ideas overall should have been the focus.
In tbp post I made I did link to specific comments, but I was bringing up general ideas. I wasn't attacking the person specifically, I'm still a bit stunned by the statements. I honestly don't know why single moms are hated. Some may have lost their husband, also military wives are basically single moms for most of the time while their husbands are deployed. Divorce is also a possibility, and I don't really understand the point of despising young women that are struggling and doing the best they can. Is it the same attitude of dislike if the woman is wealthy and chooses to have a kid and can pay for a nanny? If so, then it isn't about single moms, it's about wealth. I don't like the idea of being hard on people that already have it hard.
For the object comment and how women dress. I don't like judging a book by its cover. I don't want to make assumptions about people, because they dress for different reasons. Some goth kids will be really unattractive to people and give the impression they don't want to talk to people. But it can be a way to hide and avoid the risk of being hurt. Not every woman that is beautiful and tidy is actually happy. Appearances can be deceiving, so I like to know the person before making judgments. That's why I'm here. I judged the ideas, so I'm trying to get to know the people that believe in those ideas and better understand.
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link
It makes sense, but the problem i had with it and why i argued is that noone really cared what my reasons were, they jumped on MY preference as if that was my view of what everyone should do, which it isn't.
It was like if I'd said i only play tennis reading into it that i want to ban all other sports. Someone looked through my post history and found that i'd had trouble breastfeeding my baby to make mean comments about me as a mom. That was just trying to be as hurtful as possible!
I wouldn't despise single moms, but I don't think it's the best way to raise children and I think it makes life hard for the mom and deprives children of a father figure. If women can avoid it, I think that's a good idea really, but I get that life isn't simple.
Dressing nice and presenting yourself well is up to each person, i haven't read your post on TBP so maybe i'll read that and reply more later.
Yes, the comment about your ability as a mother was low. I can understand disagreeing with someone, but I don't think insulting people directly is helpful. I think there are reasons why people see things differently. I am sorry that my shock spurred me to post on a sub that I think is not at all about anything other than laughing at people. At first I didn't really think anything of it, but I was hasty to post on TBP as though it was an objective community without also considering that this community also operates with many members that have different experiences but still share the same outlooks.
I'm probably going to ask more questions as I work through the core material, but I will do my best not to seem as shocked and reactive. I can see that it put people on edge and made them distrusting. I don't see fault in that. If someone appears to be bullying your friend, why would think of the bully as a possible friend?
I can agree that it's better when children have a whole and loving family. It's so much to take on for a single person. DOes the same distrust apply to single dads then?
Yes I agree many people like to dress nice, but depending on the groups they hang out with that will mean something different. Punk fans won't dress like a corporate business person. In that way nice will change around the world. Dress is such a personal thing but many people don't care about it at all and are more work obsessed. People don't always share the same priorities and I know that what is normal in one culture may be obscene and inappropriate somewhere else.
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link
I'm glad you're trying to read and understand, even if you don't agree with stuff maybe different ideas are good to consider.
I would have the same worry for a single father, because I think children need a mom too, like moms and dads just do different things well.
I agree about different fashions and cultures, and priorities, I've had days where the highest aim is not smelling of baby grossness! but people are here to try and have a great relationship, so if i choose to not make looking pretty a priority I shouldn't expect to get as much attraction in my husband, you know?
That makes sense. Does pretty have a universal meaning here, or is it dependent on what the woman and the man and the woman want specifically?
I agree two parents are always better than one, i also belive in lesbian and gay couples having the opportunity to adopt. I dont think people should have a harder time giving a loving home to a child jist because of their sexuality.
Criminals and pedophiles are a different thing to consider.
Thanks for sharing.
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
I guess most of us would probably have a similar idea of pretty or not for ourselves, but there's lots of styles which work with different bodies or colourations, r/femininenotfeminist has lots of examples. Like a pretty dress for a tall girl might make me look dumpy, or contours makeup suits some girls but not others. Some stuff is universal, healthy skin and hair, being feminine and not sending signals you don't want.
And what your man likes matters, too, of course! My husband sometimes likes kilt style skirts, and i don't really like that so much, but if he thinks it is pretty, that is great!
Thanks for reading ☺
So more in line with mainstream ideas of feminine dress, and beauty standards then. I'll have to look at the sub more later.
I can get behind the personal accountability, and even putting the person you love and your relationship first. But I'm not sure why having sex matters either way? If a woman isn't looking for a relationship, shouldn't she just do whatever, and focus on vetting for a decent guy later on? I realize now that a lot of this has to do with women wanting a leader, and everything else revolves around that goal. If you want a specific kind of guy, then you cater to that type. I guess dating has always been more laid back and instinctive among my friends.
I don't know that any of this would work for my friends, and there is a specifically heterosexual and western slant.
Does this mean rp ideas fail in non western cultures?
[–]teaandtalk1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Definitely not, you'll note that there are a lot of non-western cultures where the male is automatically the head of the household & a lot of RP ideas form the basis of their rules/laws.
And, on sex: one of the things RP says that's politically incorrect & often criticised by TBP is that most men prefer a woman who hasn't been super sexually active (especially outside of a relationship) before being with him. Maybe it's partly social (not wanting someone who's slept with your friends), but it's also definitely a bit instinctual - virgins have been prized throughout history, because of a lot of things (eg paternity is a lot easier to determine if you're the only one she's been with). RP thinking acknowledges that & cautions women to consider it when they're looking for a relationship.
[–]tintedlipbalm1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
If a woman isn't looking for a relationship, shouldn't she just do whatever, and focus on vetting for a decent guy later on?
later on when? youth is the most valuable asset for a woman in the sexual marketplace and it rapidly depreciates.
Sexwise, a promiscuous woman is like to become jaded which is not a wife material trait. Interesting charts
I guess dating has always been more laid back and instinctive among my friends.
It is nowadays, people date with no purpose and women "fall" into relationships with their peers. This could generate many issues, such as structural attraction problems ("I love you, but I'm not in love with you"), baggage depending on how late is the relationship (alpha widowing, AFBB), fertility issues depending on how late the woman settles, structural problems in the dynamic that lead to divorce (primarily disrespect and vying for dominance in "equal" relationships)
and there is a specifically heterosexual and western slant.
yes there is and it's specifically stated in the sidebar, which you clearly haven't read
female and male nature persist in non western cultures, but they are not tackled by TRP as this is a body of ideas that was born in the west in direct result of western feminism
[–]littleeggwyf1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm not the best person to explain this maybe cos i've always wanted monogamy, I couldn't have no-strings sex I don't think, i'd get too attached and have moral problem with it. I guess as well if you're having casual sex then you aren't open to a serious relationship, and there's maybe emotional baggage?
I do think most people here want a guy who is leadery! and we are talking about things that try to appeal to men like that. I came here after i was already married but I think the ideas help fight some of the culture which can be negative about husbands and men, which I guess is a western & straight thing
Maybe? Some of the instincts for attraction might still apply, but some things might be different!
[–]tintedlipbalm0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
i also belive in lesbian and gay couples having the opportunity to adopt
shouldn't that be about the child's best interest though? not about what the gays want to do? for the record, I'm not pro or against either way until the full effects are shown in development, it just baffles me when people phrase it this way like it's something that should be fulfilled just to enforce equality
jist because of their sexuality.
what if it's not about their sexuality, but about the effects of the parental structure in the child's development?
I don't know why gay couples would be any less capable than straight couples. And there are lots of shitty straight couples that neglect, abuse, or just don't have the resources to give a child a good chance at a happy life.
I think it's more baffling to assume that being heterosexual is better just because of the sexual orientation of the parents. I'd care more about, available time, resources, and personal philosophies than if the couple is two men or two women.
I think it's more baffling to assume that being heterosexual is better just because of the sexual orientation of the parents.
Who says it's about sexual orientation? It's more about direct influences in PARENTING of both sexes, or lack thereof. Not what they want to bang.
I don't know why gay couples would be any less capable than straight couples
This is not for us to decide, but for future statistics. Like I said, I'm not pro or against until we have more information on the outcomes in development.
I'd care more
Cool, but it's not about us in hypothetical. I too would think it's very cool that every child is loved and wanted and has a great upbringing.
What affects does being the child of a gay couple have on a child?
It remains to be seen. I just love how pro-same sex adoption are always about what the adults want, like the kid is an afterthought.
to pretend that those things have less potential to cause just as much damage
No one is pretending that
There are many abusive and irresponsible heterosexual couples, they can make kids whenever they want
Same sex couples can also reproduce by using donors or surrogates. It's not forbidden
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
And what exactly do you find so shocking and stunning? Low effort post. Yawn
It seems that outsiders that don't know anything about RP are routinely shocked, and a bit disorientated. I am trying to understand and learn because I said that I don't judge people, but then did exactly that with rp. So I'm here trying to talk and understand.
I hope you get some rest if you're tired!
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
The best way to learn is to read what we say. It's hard to believe you are sincere in any way while you are simultaneously working a thread about us on TBP. It's the same old trolling we always see and this is why we don't welcome topics that force our members to defend or debate.
I don't know if you have been reading my comments here or not. The only BP comments I have made since I posted this thread are:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBluePill/comments/6gi5m5/obesity_single_mothers_and_objectification/diqz6hh/
Someone said that TRP is good for a laugh. Someone else said users here post on TBP. I assume they aren't posting about this sub. It's odd that TBP is not a sub that supports RP but RP users still comment there?
and I replied to a user that is from this sub but commented on TBP thread I posted
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBluePill/comments/6gi5m5/obesity_single_mothers_and_objectification/dir9034/?context=3
I haven't been making other comments or judgements there and I have been asking questions. For example I don't understand the hate for single moms. I already said this but I'll repeat it here. Military wives are practically single moms and have to do everything on their own, some moms may have lost their husband because he died, or they started out married and got divorced. I also don't understand why people would be mean to young and possibly poor mothers that already have a hard life. I asked if the same dislike applies to wealthy moms that can afford a nanny. If the rich women are NOT disliked, then it seems that it's less about single moms and more about being rich. I don't like judging or putting down people just because they are struggling and poor.
I'm sure you do get a lot of trolling, but if you read my comments here (and even on TBP thread I posted where I pointed out one user was unfairly assessed about posting habits) and you still think I'm just out for a punch line and a laugh then I don't know what to tell you because I';m not.
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We aren't the TRP sub. If you want to know why those guys say those things, go ask them.
Also, I thought it would be more dishonest to delete my other comments and TBP post. I have been upfront and sincere. I don't think shock is all that common to this community when someone discovers things for the first time. Is it normal for people to just slip in and understand and agree with everything?
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
"Is it normal for users to slip in and understand and agree with everything"
That's a fair question. I think the answer to this is twofold.
It's normal for people to read new anything and have questions or objections.
It's normal for people who are new to lurk, read, and participate while they decide if they understand and agree.
Having said that, our active members are happy to explain concepts and bridge a better understanding but not while the user is also on a sub that's only goal is to make fun of and misrepresent us, all for a laugh. You can't undo how you've started here but we welcome anyone who hangs out with respect and courtesy.
Thank for the response!
Would you recommend that I delete the thread and the comments I made there then? Or should I ask the mods to review first so they don't think I'm trying to be deceptive?
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think you should do whatever best gets you to your goal and let your actions show your intentions.
Ok I think I will leave it all up for transparency then. And take more time to think and ask questions moving forward.
I really enjoyed reading this thread in it's entirety this morning. Sounds like you got some good insights and I appreciate that you weren't trolling. see ya around :)
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[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total1 point2 points3 points (36 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total1 point2 points3 points (34 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total0 points1 point2 points (32 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total0 points1 point2 points (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]teaandtalk1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]teaandtalk1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]tintedlipbalm1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyf1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]tintedlipbalm0 points1 point2 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]tintedlipbalm1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 3 points4 points5 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]MetalDevils points points points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]HappyWifeLifeX 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link