Traditionalism in the end game of TRP, why can't TRPillers see?

questioningwoman · 2016-08-29T03:22:57+00:00

There's economic liberalism and social liberalism. Maybe they are economic left and social right.

mrcs84usn · 2016-08-29T03:25:40+00:00

Seems to me that a most RPers lean more libertarian, which isn't really traditionalist, though it falls on the right.

IMO, there's nothing particularly traditional about spinning plates while chanting "don't get married."

questioningwoman · 2016-08-29T03:30:39+00:00

Left-wing RPer? It would be an oxymoron if RP was a political movement.

Admittedly, RP is a gateway drug to the whole Dark Enlightenment/Alt-right/Neoreaction movement, and functions as a reaction to the PC/SJW/Pro-Censorship in the mainstream society.

But a man could become a RPer but also believe in anarcho-communism, still hate the rich, still love foreigners, and still value peace over war while believing in a benevolent, naturally good humanity only corrupted by corporate greed and patriarchy. You can easily ignore the alt-right considerations and just do the self-improvement part to get bitches.

However, OP, you are merely, correctly extrapolating from RP beliefs, seeing their logic, making further deductions, finding yourself agreeing with it, and getting pulled into the anti-egalitarian, anti-enlightenment rabbit hole. It's only a matter of time...

questioningwoman · 2016-08-29T04:14:13+00:00

Not just traditionalism, fascism.

[deleted] · 2016-08-29T10:52:24+00:00

I think it's more likely that traditionalists have taken over TRP than red pill philosophy is inherently traditionalist. There's a common similarity of resenting many of the things feminism has fought for and continues to fight for but its very possible to be left leaning and get something out of RP.

Example? Not pedestalizing women. RP teaches men not to do because in the end it doesn't get you want you want (and honestly no human deserves to be pedestalized). But a tradcon says society is too far gone from feminists mandating the pedestalization of all women that the only way to help men is to scale back women's actual rights. Tradcons don't care about RP in the abstract, they only care about finding safe spaces where they think their sexist and racist views are welcome.

Tradcons more or less killed the MRM. There was a time they had a window to affect change in areas like fairer family courts and addressing domestic violence commited against men. But they became sidelined by tradcons who wanted to promote right wing Christian views over advancing an agenda beneficial to men. And the two are certainly not mutually inclusive.

Apexk9 · 2016-08-29T03:24:37+00:00

I think political views are for idiots.

I have different views on every issue depending on the issue.

Politics are just a way to control people while a select few reap the benefits.

Red-Frostraven · 2016-08-29T17:27:14+00:00

I'm practically a communist, but I realize the world is too full of selfish pricks for that to actually work, and because I don't want to ruin the world, I'm forced further right than my nature in order to not contribute to the destruction of any society. I don't support any communistic regime, and wouldn't support the creation of a communistic state -- simply because we all know where that would go. Selfish people get power --> Corruption --> Ruined Human society only works if people's selfish interests are kept in check by other people's selfish interests.

1: Women act on feelings, more than on logic. They're more social, less individualistic. They rely more on guidance and authortities, because that's the more social approach to solving problems.

Hell -- this behavior is observable from humans are 2 years old: Boy toddlers try to fix problems without help, girls ask for attention to solve the problems. http://www.pbs.org/parents/experts/archive/2012/09/boy-and-girl-brains-whats-the.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-gail-gross/how-boys-and-girls-learn-differently_b_5339567.html

And that's the extent of my interest and likeness to the Red Pill ideals outlined in your post.

-I'm 100% definitely left wing -Men and women are different, but I wouldn't call women childish -- just social rather than individualistic, and emotional rather than rational. And please don't think for a second that I'm saying AWALT; This is just how our average brains are different, not how every individual of each gender acts.

While I disagree with the outlined ideals, my ideals are just that: Ideals Reality doesn't give a crap about ideals. ... 2) Patriarchy: No need for one. For as long as the best qualified candidate for a job or position is selected. Which in most high profile and important cases -- even in the most gender equal countries in the world -- will be a man, like it or not. Which is caused by men spending more time on the things they enjoy at the expense of everything else, while men on average exert a higher level of confidence than women, most often beyond their abilities. And both genders like that quality. Both men and women like people who are confident beyond their actual abilities, and they get responsibilities -- free education -- that gives them an edge over those who don't gain such opportunities. I loathe the way humanity and human societies works. But that IS how humanity works, wheter you like it or not, and practically everyone are collabrating to make it continue to work that way. From women sleeping with the top 20% of males while not giving the bottom 80% any attention, to male and female business leaders who are more impressed by a guy who exerts self confidence but lacks abilities than any person with abiilities who lacks that unrealistic level of self confidence.

I fear spending too much resources on forcing equal gender representation in leadership roles causes a society to fall behind one that doesn't, because the different ratio of representation in society is caused by the natural differences in men and women, and the quality of leadership is unchanged despite society spending large amounts of resources forcing equal representation -- a state that needs constant funding because the gender differences simply aren't going to change just because we have more female leaders. Most girls born will still be more averse to taking risks and are less individualistic than men, while they're also more concerned about their family and about starting families, and have a larger desire to nurture and spend time with their children.

...a certain degree patriarchy is an inevitable result of the differences in men and women, and spending resources on nurturing a change is pretty much like throwing money out of the window: The best qualiified candidate will be chosen regardless, and spending money on generating qualified female candidates is worse, economically, than spending the same money on improving the quality of ALL candidates, or just the top 10% of the possible candidates. As a communist, my ideals tell me that everyone should be paid the same regardless of what they do -- while those that work more or harder obviously should be rewarded for doing so: Equal pay for equal work, and a man and woman who works just as hard would be paid the same as a man, regardless of occupation.

Capitalism, and humanity in general, rewardiing people differently for equal work is a problem associated with humanity's inherent seflishness.

3) Most people are selfish and need clear incentives to be productive. It's a fact, just like the sky is blue. That is the reason I wouldn't want communism in any country, despite being a communist. Sociopaths are normal people minus empathy, and thus both parts are present in normal people. They are empathetic sociopaths: Selfish monsters that will kill because they enjoy eating your flesh, if they don't have empathy towards you.

I don't like that fact that pure selfish capitalism works, but hey -- I don't like that fact that simulating alpha behavior makes the majority of women wet either. I mean; Realistic assessment of one's abilities -- also known as low self confidence -- is the quality in men that women hate the most, while unrealistic assessment of one's abilities is considered to be the sexiest asset a man can possess. It's only a lie if you know you're lying -- and women just LOVE people who lie unknowingly.

Reality is what it is, regardless of what we wanted it to be. What works, works -- and no matter how you want the world to be, the reality of how humanity is structured, from individual behavior, sexual behavior to human society as a whole doesn't give a crap about your ideals or beliefs.

...

I'm a communist, but don't want it -- and while I vote left, I don't want to take away capitalism. I have realistic assessment of my own abilities, but pretend to have high self confidence to get laid. I'd love for gender equality to be real, but genders aren't equal -- and not having a patriarchy costs money every generation. Most humans are sociopaths inhibited by their empathy, and do need clear incentives to be productive. The lack of faith in humanity is a view I've derived through observation, not my ideal. In fact -- this is the number one reason I'm depressed as hell.

...

I came in without agreeing with the red pill ideals, but I walk out understanding them after evaluating them for the first time.

They ARE rational; That's not how I want the world to work, but then again -- the Red Pill is all about adapting and accepting to the world for what it is, and giving up on your ideals, in order to achieve success in mating.

And just like simulating qualities women like attracts women, forming society in the optimal fashion is better than trying too form it according to your ideals.

FairlyNaive · 2016-08-30T15:52:53+00:00

Most tradcons wouldnt touch a red with a 10 foot pole. There was a shitstorm when GLO became mod in the alt right sub. There is a huge difference between those who think that we need to return to the lige long marriages and those who want to spin 5 plates all their life.

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Title	Traditionalism in the end game of TRP, why can't TRPillers see?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	88
Date	August 29, 2016 3:15 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/50304g/traditionalism_in_the_end_game_of_trp_why_cant/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/traditionalism-in-the-end-game-of-trp-why-cant.273358 https://theredarchive.com/post/273358

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