CMV: TRP and TBP lifestyles can both be equally great lifestyles (including what most people seem concerned with: dating and sex) depending on the individual's personality and perspective.

BluePiller1776 · 2016-04-28T19:34:52+00:00

The Red Pill and The Blue Pill are not "lifestyles". They are world views and belief systems based on one's view of how intersexual relationships work.

The RedPill does not proselytize. It does not seek converts, nor does it demand that others change their views to accommodate it. It is not a movement and doesn't seek to effect "change" on a macro or even micro scale. It is not a club and does not seek members.

If your relationships work for you, you don't need TRP. If you are able to get women to date, fuck and/or marry you, and bear your children if you want that, and you've never had difficulty in that area, you don't need TRP. If you learned what you needed to learn growing up, and you have healthy coping mechanisms, you don't need TRP. If you just got really lucky and it's working, you don't need TRP.

The guys who need TRP are the men who didn't get formed up correctly. The guys who need TRP are the men who were (deliberately in some cases, misguidedly and negligently in most) maleducated and told exactly the wrong things to do and be to attract women. The guys who need TRP are the men who were lied to and told "nice" and "kind" and "good sense of humor" are sexually attractive. The guys who need TRP are the men who need to get in shape and need to fix major personality problems. The guys who need TRP are the men who aren't going to attract women and will need to learn to GTOW in as productive a manner as possible.

EDIT: The guys who need TRP are the guys who were consistent failures in their lives and in their relationships. They came to TRP because they realized what they were doing wasn't working. They came to TRP because they realized something was wrong. They discovered at TRP that THEY were the "something" that was wrong.

nomdplume · 2016-04-28T20:01:07+00:00

TRP teaches the captain / first mate dynamic for man to girlfriend, to lead when with them and to plan everything.

It's not to plan everything. That is totally impractical.

The baseline function is to always be impressing her. Men bear the expectation of performance. Your performance as a man is what attracts her to you.

So, one way to impress her and demonstrate your ability to perform and thereby maintain her attraction is to be proactive in planning those things that will impress her and demonstrate your ability to perform. You'll look like a badass man who knows how to take care of his own and she'll respect, admire, and (therefore) find you attractive for it. Don't fuck it up.

That women don't have to assume traditionally female roles in relationships; but it's all really based on what those two individuals prefer

I'm RP, and I agree with this statement.

No one has to do anything.

My observation is that women tend to be happiest when they are assuming traditionally female roles, and get resentful if they are partnered with a weak, passive, ineffectual man such that they instead have to assume the male role in the relationship.

For example, I only know of one woman (out of the many mothers I know) who would not prefer to stay home with her baby if the family could afford it. And these women are all educated career-women types.

Likewise, most women I know have a much stronger urge to do "nesting" than their men. If they don't get some time at home to "nest", they get anxious and cagey about it.

I don't want to force women to do anything they don't want to do, but for most women who are married with children, they seem to want to assume more of the traditional female role (whether they can from a practical standpoint is another question).

I'm not against anything on principle. I'm just trying to observe and describe what seems to be optimal for everyone involved.

(eg.. one couple may work as "egalitarian" where one may work as "captain/first mate" different strokes for different folks).

And I don't believe that there exists such a thing as an "egalitarian" relationship in human beings, given that we are socially oriented towards hierarchies and much of our innate social behavior is tailored to that orientation.

In every human relationship, there is a power dynamic at play. Sometimes it is subtle or isn't apparent at all, but that doesn't mean it's there. Throw any relationship into adversity and you'll quickly be able to assess the power dynamics at play.

When it comes to commitment, TBP believes it's okay for guy or girl to bring it up if that's what they want and are feeling.

I'm a man who knows what he wants and commits himself to getting it. If I were truly looking for a LTR and I was not interested in anything else, I would absolutely be telling the woman up front that's the gig. Same as I tell any woman whom I am fucking and I don't want to be exclusive with that I want to fuck her and that I won't be exclusive. If you aren't interested in playing my game, I'll go find someone who is. I don't need the headaches that come with being wishy-washy or passive aggressive or indecisive.

~~Some~~ 1 in a 1000 hot girls have a thing for fat guys, some hot guys ~~have a thing for~~ are willing to fuck fat girls, or have a fat fetish.

FTFY

If BP wants to make the original assertion, I want to see more evidence of that.

Ultimately there's no "right" or "wrong" to a relationship other than to know yourself and to be aware of who you're compatible with.

There may be no "right" or "wrong", but there is absolutely "effective" and "ineffective." I've observed a lot of approaches in life, and I've tried a lot of approaches in my life, and the ones I use and advocate are always those that are "effective" and not "ineffective." That's my standard. Ideals be damned...

Archwinger · 2016-04-28T21:10:24+00:00

There's a lot of over-thinking going on about this whole Red Pill thing.

Some guys are naturally good with people, decent looking, social, charismatic, likeable dudes. They have a good mind for social interactions. They get it. Sometimes their relationships go well, sometimes their relationships go badly, but in general, they don't have a huge problem meeting girls, having sex, finding relationships, just as an extension of who they are and what they're like.

Guys like this think the Red Pill is just plain stupid. Even forgetting all the woman-hating, they think it's asinine that people actually need to discuss this shit and theorize about it and try to figure it out. You just go talk to girls like they're people and sometimes you get laid. What?

Those guys are the "blue pill" guys you find around Reddit. There's no theory or way of life here. You just live your life and as an extension of that life, sometimes you meet girls. Only losers obsess about girls and sex and make some big-ass internet forum to talk about it.

Some guys, however, are not naturally good with people. Maybe they're ugly. Maybe they're somewhere on the autism spectrum. Maybe they had a bad childhood that socially stunted them. For whatever reason, these guys are not charismatic or socially apt. They don't just suck with women; they suck at making friends in general. They often suffer not just at getting laid, but socially and professionally as a whole, due to an inability to make friends easily or network professionally. When these guys tried their luck with women in the past, they were awkward, creepy, and undateable. Their failure to obtain experience with women downward spiraled as they got older, and they went from clueless teenagers (where it's okay not to get it sometimes) to grown-ass men who are expected to get it.

These guys don't get it. These guys need shit explained to them, even though it seems stupid and obvious to a "normal" guy. Even though this is the kind of shit nobody ever explains or talks about. And because nobody ever explains or talks about it, the guys explaining this shit to them are other guys just like them, who've figured this out through trial and error, and probably only have things maybe 80% right.

The whole PUA movement that started a lot of this was really just loser guys mimicking what they saw winner guys doing. Practicing the motions, preparing things to say, having gimmicks and techniques. Essentially, emulating just enough winner-behavior to hide the fact that they're one of the undateable losers who doesn't get it. Tricking girls into sex.

The more general masculinity/TRP/manosphere movement exploded from that. A collection of socially stunted guys raging against a world that rewards looks and social aptitude while ignoring pretty much any other virtue. TRP figured out how the sex/relationship system works and how to game that system.

There's no lifestyle or world-view involved. It's just guys who get it, and guys who don't but have figured out enough about how it works to be successful anyway.

csehszlovakze · 2016-04-28T20:47:25+00:00

Yea, contrary to what TRPillers will tell you I know some BP marriages that seem fairly happy.

The first mistake they make is that they assume every single man wants to be dominant or has it in him to be dominant and that no woman ever wants to be dominant herself.

I know a lot of men who would hate to "lead" or have too many responsibilities.

[deleted] · 2016-04-28T23:08:37+00:00

Firstly let me say there is no such thing as a blue pill lifestyle. Red pill is a tool box and collection of theories. Those who identify as blue pill are just red pill haters. So for the purpose of this discussion I will use the terms "players" and "stayers".

Players are those who act red pill, stayers are those who do not. Players get lots of casual sex and a wider choice of partners if they choose to enter a relationship. Stayers are just normal people. Find a sweetheart, get married, have kids, half get divorced.

It is like two different lifestyles. One lifestyle is full of excitement with big highs and big lows, this is the player lifestyle, it is life on a rollercoaster. The stayer lifestyle is more comfortable and stable. Less highs and lows, more like a country drive than a rollercoaster. People may be stayers for part of their lives and have a spell as a player. Players do settle down (any alpha male celebrity who is or has married for example) and live a "blue pill" life for want of a better word. That does not mean Brad Pitt is blue pill, I am sure he could go forth and slay the pussy whenever he chose to.

Both lifestyles have their appeal. What I would say here is it is not a competition. Red pill can turn a stayer into a player, blue pill cannot work the other way round. Red pill offers anyone choices or options. It does not matter who you are (and I mean you too girls, read RPW, act feminine, act submissive, look hot) red pill theories can make you succeed more effectively in the sexual marketplace. There is no red vs blue debate. Just some sad and confused people who identify as blue pill because of their fee fees for girls, and in the case of men, due to their brainwashed and feminised mangina brains.

wazzup987 · 2016-04-29T00:20:57+00:00

UH yeah, but the issues and i have had rper tell me this via pm is a lot them can't 'calibrate'. And the worship of DT traits is so cringey. but yeah tradcon and non tradcon life styles work provided every one is one board.

qwerty3141 · 2016-04-28T19:29:16+00:00

While there are some people who are content with a blue life, it doesn't mean both are equal.

Even most blue men will agree a red life would be preferred. I agree they are both successful mating strategies, but to say they are equal isn't correct.

Leaders will ALWAYS beat the followers.

alreadyredschool · 2016-04-28T20:25:36+00:00

Sure but it boils down to luck vs taking things in your own hands.

Winning the lottery and studying are valid ways to get rich...

BaadKitteh · 2016-04-28T22:01:53+00:00

I don't even see how you've really made a "view" to change; no one from TBP has said that nothing from TRP is useful and no one who follows any of it can be successful, at least. The problem is twerps presenting their ideals as blanket truth for everyone (AWALT), claiming they have scientific backing for it (BIOTRUFS), and de facto saying everyone else who does not accept their claims lives in a made up world by saying we chose the "blue pill" as a Matrix reference.

I've said it many times- most likely very few people would have had any interest in their nonsense if they hadn't put themselves on a pedestal of enlightenment, claiming to deliver absolute truth in areas where absolute truth frankly can't be claimed. No, all men and all women are not "like that", for any personality type/wants/needs beyond the basic biological ones. No, not even a statistically significant portion of people are "like that" enough to make it a valid premise.

People are individuals. The best way to deal with other people is to communicate and pay attention, not manipulate them for your own gain (or at least try to, which is the most the vast majority of twerps could manage).

The only thing TBP espouses as a group is treating other people with respect, and pretty much everything you attributed to TBP as a group is basically that. Don't lie to and use people, don't categorically consider the other gender inferior to you, care about your partner's feelings at least as much as your own, people have the right to make their own choices about their bodies and not be shamed for it... it all comes down to simple, basic level respect and human decency. To say that is "The Blue Pill Way" is I suppose accurate, since everyone who isn't red is blue, but frankly decent people find all of those things to be common sense.

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