Female agency and why women don't flee

Thus_Spoke · 2014-01-07T01:05:57+00:00

Once, in college, I was walking to my boyfriend's house with some friends when we ran into a group of acquaintances on their way to a party. One of the kids was tripping on acid and picked me up off my feet, squeezed me, and held me for an uncomfortably long amount of time. I just froze up and after a minute said "Umm...can you put me down now?". Eventually he put me down, though not as soon as I asked.

I didn't fight or scream, despite being very uncomfortable, because I knew that could possibly escalate the situation and that wasn't what I wanted. He was obviously quite a bit bigger than me and not in his right state of mind, I had fewer friends with me than he did, avoiding confrontation seemed like the best route. I don't even think this is necessarily gender specific, men may also go along with something they are uncomfortable with to avoid escalating the situation. It is a very natural reaction.

myfriendscantknow · 2014-01-07T04:02:35+00:00

The social pressures placed on women as pertaining sexual harassment and assault is why train molesters are a problem in Japan.

berryokt · 2014-01-07T20:04:47+00:00

I'm afraid to say no. I feel like I dont have the right. now that I am with my husband, nobody picks on me, but I used to go in public alone, especially being homeless and men would cuddle up to me, hold my leg and such, and I was just frozen unable to get them off of me. I guess I was afraid they wouldn't accept no, and might hurt me if I made them upset. I really really didnt want them to touch me or talk to me but I was used to it

IIHotelYorba · 2014-01-07T08:38:14+00:00

People seem to forget that the alternative to embracing your agency is to objectify yourself. When you do, and you play a rigid role, a role that can only do X amount of things, (because you're a "victim," a "bystander," a "spectator," etc) you sacrifice your own choices and ability to act as needed. This is why Daniel Craig walks in to a serial killer's trap. He doesn't act according to what's needed. He plays a the role of a polite guest.

If you actually want equality of the sexes, you kind of need to at least accept your responsibility like men have to. Unless you want people to treat you like a potted plant. (Because they'll be copying the way you treat yourself)

[deleted] · 2014-01-08T09:32:03+00:00

bestof post where a woman itemized her internal reactions to a fictitious event where a guy she didn't like pull her onto his lap.

There was a comment like this in the RP CMV thread the other day. It might be the post you're talking about. I'm not sure. It's one of the most relatable comments I've seen on this topic and I generally feel the same way she does.

I think young women/girls have a harder time asserting their boundaries, probably because they haven't figured out what they are yet.

Many people just don't like confrontation, and predators take advantage of that. It's kind of absurd to think that every single woman (or man) is good at communicating clearly and firmly under stress, especially when an aggressive person is being inappropriate. An introverted person would likely have a harder time asserting boundaries than an extroverted person. That doesn't make them defective.

[deleted] · 2014-01-07T05:28:15+00:00

Here's my problem with this. I have a younger sister. If you let this guy go around touching you without checking him, he eventually might offend my sister and she has a few brothers and a father that will and have acted in anti social ways to help other men understand boundaries as it pertains to women (especially my sister). You have effectively outsourced your agency to me or other men. So keep taking it, you're proving our point that women will always need a man, whether they know him or not, to keep law and order. Or could tell him to back off.

[deleted] · 2014-01-07T03:06:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Whisper · 2014-01-10T21:01:23+00:00

I thought this was unfair and unempathetic.

TRP are bastards, really.

...

TRP are bastards, really.

I thought this was unfair and unempathetic.

ಠ_ಠ

[deleted] · 2014-01-07T11:46:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Archwinger · 2014-01-07T21:27:44+00:00

This one's tough to abide by. I'm supposed to assume, because I'm a big, scary, privileged male person, that if I start chatting with a group of people at a bar, a pretty girl giggles at my jokes, we start talking for a bit, and I put a hand on her -- that I was wrong. She wasn't interested in me in the slightest. She was scared of me. Didn't want to offend me. Didn't want to make an embarrassing scene. What kind of rapist am I, walking up to people and talking to them? Casually touching a pretty girl?

God forbid I assume that this apparently interested girl is into me, keep touching her, take her home, and have sex with her, and she just goes along with it because she feels powerless to say no because I'm a scary male person. I'm a creepy rapist and never knew it?

PaulRivers10 · 2014-01-09T08:22:20+00:00

I've been ruminating on this for a few days, ever since that bestof post where a woman itemized her internal reactions to a fictitious event where a guy she didn't like pull her onto his lap. There was a post in TRP calling her broken and someone to be avoided. I thought this was unfair and unempathetic. TRP are bastards, really. We can never be the person who walks in another's shoes, but we could try.

It's because men's repeated desire to do what you're saying when a woman is involved - stop, and assume that what she's saying is innaccurate - has been used as a manipulative tactic for decades now. It's like a guy who comes up to you in public and tells you a sad story about how his car broke down, he's far from home, and he just needs $20 to get a can of fix-a-flat - and he's just so amazed and greatful that you decided to help him out!

Then the next day, again...another guy who has...exactly the same problem. Then the next day, another guy. Then another guy. Then you actually run into the first guy, who's tells you exactly the same story a week later. Eventually you go - ok, obviously this is a bunch of crap.

Eventually, most guys have realized that this is just an excuse online commenters use to describe their internalized hatred and avoidance of everything related to dating, and to tell men to never ever do anything that would cause him to actually date a girl that he's interested in.

Real Story - a guy goes to a beach party, meets a cute girl. Offers her a lot to drink, offers to go back to his tent, they do, they make out heavily while she's pretty intoxicated.
Feminist reaction: He's a jackass! They were alone, she was drunk, bla bla bla bla - she was SCARED! She just froze up!
Reality: He's telling me this story while she's sitting next to him, grinning about the story. They're married now, with 2 kids. He had spent a decade of his life not doing stuff like that, and remained single. It was only when he started doing things he supposedly wasn't supposed to that he met his wife.

Real Story - a guy chats online on a dating site with a girl. He makes a date, but she stands him up for it, at the last second saying she has a boyfriend. A year later, he runs into her at a dance thing. She's now single. At the end of the evening he follows her to her car and kisses her.
Feminist reaction: He's a jackass! They were alone, there was no one around, bla bla bla - she was SCARED! She just froze up and kissed him back because she didn't know what else to do!
Reality: They've been dating for 5 years now. She's always posting pictures of the two of them together on facebook.

I could think of more, but it's getting late and I don't want to put the time into the post. The point is - practically all dating situation is described as "she might be scared", then if the girl responds positively it's then described as "she only went along with it - because she was SCARED!".

Do you know what they tell women? - if he was really interested in you, he would have made a move.

The truth is that women are generally more socially and emotionally skilled than men. That's the gender roles in our society. If you leave her a big out to move away from you - and she doesn't do it - for 99% of people you cannot possibly be more than annoying her at worst.

There is that 1% that don't follow this - but they truly have a psychological problem. It's not wrong that guys should avoid her either - do you REALLY want to continually be in a situation where she's going along with something, but actually, you're horribly hurting her? Hell no.

But a "you could try walking in her shoes" attitude has been being shamefully exploited so many times with the "it's because she was SCARED" excuse - and again, and again, and again shown itself to be untrue - that now reasonable guys respond to it immediately with eye rolling and derision. The same way you respond to the 18th guy who says his car broke down, but he just needs $20 for a can of fix-a-flat...

Title	Female agency and why women don't flee
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	14
Comments	53
Date	January 7, 2014 12:30 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ukz1c/female_agency_and_why_women_dont_flee/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/female-agency-and-why-women-dont-flee.286390 https://theredarchive.com/post/286390

Comments