696,979 posts

[Mod] On vote brigading

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May 8, 2013

It's fun to link to other subs and look at examples of red/blue pill theories in action, but it's important that we follow reddiquette. Because of this I want to ensure that we:

  • Do not follow links into other subs and contribute with up/down votes.

  • Only participate in conversations of communities of which you are already a member.

  • Keep our discussion of external threads internal on our sub.

  • When linking to other subs, use the subdomain: np.reddit.com (No Participation) Any sub using the NP rules will generally disallow vote brigading from inbound links.

Thanks, and thank you goatbirthforalgore for alerting me of the np.reddit.com thing.

Post Information
Title [Mod] On vote brigading
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 59
Comments 29
Date 08 May 2013 01:21 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/4284
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1dxhgs/mod_on_vote_brigading/
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the red pillthe blue pill

[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave16 points17 points  (8 children) | Copy

I realize that you have to say this. It's just due diligence for a mod. But it's ridiculous. The admins of reddit are morons. They demand that mods stress over things that the admins could actually fix. Take this for example:

Do not follow links into other subs and contribute with up/down votes.

There is a simply technological fix for this: (1) allow moderators to see the subscriber list for a sub, and the karma score in that sub (2) allow moderators to set a threshold for who can vote.

In other words, if you want to vote in a sub (and if the moderator has set the sub up this way) you would need to be a subscriber in good standing.

How hard is that, really?

And this:

Only participate in conversations of communities of which you are already a member.

betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how reddit works - yet every sub that links to another sub or is linked to by another sub whines about it. ZOMG BRIGADING! THERE (sic) BRIGADING US! MAKE THEM STOP! I don't feel like looking up the exact name, but there's actually an entire sub dedicated to whining that MRAs post in /r/feminism

Here's the thing: Reddit is a threaded discussion board - there is absolutely no negative effect from outsiders participating in a thread. A million MRAs could flood /r/feminism and they could do nothing to stop feminists from talking about whatever they wanted to talk about ...unless the users of /r/feminism allow them to

The reason is simple. As a threaded discussion board, any conversation train that goes off on a rabbit trail is easily hidden. Instead of whining that an MRA showed up and asked "what about the menz?" all you have to do is click that little minus sign next to the poster's name. Their post, and all replies, go away. It really is that easy.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, until the admin decide to make either a technological or rule change, we'll just have to deal with these rules as is.

[–]telnet_reddit_804 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

How hard is that, really?

At reddit's scale every change will be hard.

Also, they aim for free speech and don't want to give mods too much power, the whole democratic community shtick. Unfortunately, it batters smaller communities that don't kowtow to the hivemind.

[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

they aim for free speech and don't want to give mods too much power

That's really not true though, is it? SRS bans people for the crime of disagreeing. SRS deletes posts that contain nothing but links to peer-reviewed studies.

[–]telnet_reddit_801 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Mods in any sub can remove posts and comments for any reason or not reason at all.

[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Mods in any sub can remove posts and comments for any reason or not reason at all.

That is true. Which means that this statement you made is false:

they aim for free speech and don't want to give mods too much power, the whole democratic community shtick

...which was my point

[–]telnet_reddit_800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They don't want to give them power that would, for example, influence voting which would go against their democracy shtick. It's a comment on

(2) allow moderators to set a threshold for who can vote.

and both the point and justification are literally in the same sentence.

[–]dropit_sphere1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Meh...defaults matter. Google finds it worth a bundle of money to pay Mozilla to make Google the default search for Firefox. Asking people to click a minus sign every time seems...unempathetic, I guess.

[–]A_Seabear 22 points22 points [recovered] | Copy

Ultimately I'd rather have us stay completely away from things like this unless they provide a near perfect example to what we discuss here. I'd rather not see this sub divulge into another subreddit where we link something and circlejerk over why we don't agree with it. Of course I'm still quite open to helping people who come here with (legitimate) questions and such.

Yeah there's a ton of pushovers on this website that make great examples of what not to do, but I'm just worried that will start to be all that is discussed here, in particular because it's really easy to find examples of this type of behavior, and the posts themselves are very low-effort, without any leading questions to stimulate critical thinking.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy

Reviewing real life examples of our theory is good. There is no such thing as a circle jerk.

If there's content you'd rather see, please contribute it.

[–]1Ill_mumble_that11 points12 points  (12 children) | Copy

A circle jerk is when new ideas become unavailable due to overwhelming bias towards pre-existing models.

Either that or when people begin to upvote irrelevant shit just because it tickles their particular fancy of cognitive dissonance.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy

I do not entertain the concept of a "circle jerk," it's an unfalsifiable rhetorical claim somebody makes to avoid the legwork of either providing material they want or making a coherent argument against existing material.

[–]Newthinker14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy

Just because you don't entertain the idea doesn't mean it isn't a well defined concept and phenomenon.

See "echo chamber":


And "positive feedback":


(Sorry for the weird link formatting, the first URL couldn't be linked with Reddit code due to the inclusion of a ending parenthesis.)

[–]Modredpillschool[S,M] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

I am entirely denying that this is an effect that can be falsified. A subreddit on arithmetic will never conclude 1+2=4, and can just as easily be labeled as a "circle jerk" for agreeing on that, or even worse- focusing conversation around this simple concept.

A subreddit has one function: To narrow the scope of discussion. So long as the discussion has some level of objectivity (or even previously agreed upon subjectivity), it's wrong to call it a circle jerk just because it matches this definition.

Worse still, those who make the accusation cannot be falsified, because all content limited in scope will always fall victim to this broad definition.

Therefore I will not entertain the concept. Anything referencing circlejerks on this sub will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be banned.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. I don't really understand the mentality of somebody who disagrees trying to white knight here, it takes them so many keystrokes and it only takes me two clicks to delete.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

What? Social Psychology is an entire field dedicated to studding social phenomena, such as Group Think.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I have made my position quite clear and will discuss it no further.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

i don't understand a word you just said. but i like it.

[–]DerickBurton1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What's the deal with http://np.reddit.com/?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

np = no participation. as i understand it, upvotes and downvotes won't work on that subdomain

[–]DerickBurton0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]DEVi4TION1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Plus it ruins the example anyways. I see a link here that says something like "lolz beta noobs n feminoobs r beta upvoaters". And I get there and we have already had skewed the data. Our guys have made a post and shot it to the top, and stumped the posts I went to look at.

[–]nonservator0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

If Reddit admins and staff didn't want things to work this way, then they wouldn't.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I am only taking cues from other mods who have been threatened by admin for encouraging this behavior.

[–]nonservator0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

"Your system is perfectly designed for the results you are seeing." They have the ability to stop other people from doing something, and yet they don't do it. That must mean they like things the way they are.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Since you're not a mod, I'm going to assume you don't understand the pressure at work here. You cannot feign innocence when the admin come for you.

[–]nonservator0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not feigning anything, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't disagree that the admin should make changes if they don't like certain behaviors. But we cannot pretend that everything that is possible is endorsed by the admin. It isn't, and moderators have been banned for acting as such.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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