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[–]Snazzy_Serval 52 points53 points54 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
(Attractive) women are just more in demand in sales positions. It's simply because sex sells.
The difference between you and her is that you won't hit the glass ceiling as time goes by. Keep at it and you will be recognized.
[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 35 points36 points37 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
People pay more attention to sales sluts which is why sales sluts are a great investment. Bitter Confidence Issues Sales guy is a bad investment.
[–]HeadingRed 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bitter Confidence Issues Sales guy is a bad investment.
And one of the less successful Saturday morning cartoon shows.
[–]1WeedDaddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
you won't hit the glass ceiling
Corporations can't yet put the dummies or dolls on the top, there has to be someone with a male brain to pull their strings.
[–]NeoreactionSafe 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Unless you find some gay secret society that will reward your male sex the odds are your sister... who likely is attractive... will get more offers than you will.
This will be true up until she hits the Wall, then all of a sudden at 30 years old no one will hire her pretty tight little ass because by then she will be slightly overweight, have fucked a hundred guys on the Cock Carousel™ and have that worn out broken slut look with the "thousand cock stare".
Guys are typically not the "hot chick" that sells anything.
[–][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]NeoreactionSafe 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The management typically will hire women if they are even remotely capable of doing a job.
They know men are good at being workers... but if a woman can do it and if she is attractive (or just not a blue haired feminist freak) then I can see her getting offers.
[–]1WeedDaddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
she hits the Wall, then all of a sudden at 30 years old no one will hire her pretty tight little ass
That's what affirmative action is for.
Women conveniently ignore the preference for young women, and base their complaints of the female struggle in the job market on the plights of older women. After all, being a modern "strong and independent" female is all about eating your cake and having it too.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Thought this post was gonna be about how having sister may serve as advantage in gaming
[–]ThrowyMcGruder 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As a guy with a few sisters, it absolutely can be.
[–][deleted] 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]aewiggin 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My sister doesn't have any friends. Hah.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I know I have a sister, but thought a post about something like this or a TRP analysis could be a lot of fun
[–]1jcromero 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
YOU'RE IN MARKETING. How is this any surprise at all? Just this post alone shows your lack of marketing skills and experience.
As /u/Snazzy_Serval pointed out, your value increases more slowly over time. How does it do that? Because you have more experience.
Just think of it in terms of management in the service industry. Hot bartenders and servers are a dime a dozen. Their good looks make them people of relative value. However this small amount of value makes them passive aggressive, entitled, and often unreliable. So how do you manage these people? By being better, by learning how to deal with these people. That's what management is all about. You gotta give your employees what they want/need for the least amount of cost while getting what you need from them. Pure economics.
These companies may be giving your sister opportunities for employment but they also know that she won't be going that far. Why? Because kids, family, and life. My sister is an accountant and that's exactly what's happened to her (although in her case she's also extremely talented so they actually WANT to promote her).
Besides, think of it this way: Those companies are a fucking death trap. Why the fuck would you want to work at a business where women (or any group for that matter) are given more privilege by merit of their gender rather than their skills? You're not going to get ahead there. At best you'll be a whipping boy, which seems to be case.
Work there and get experience, network, and keep on moving up. That's what women do to men. You need to do that with your career. Welcome to the real world.
[–][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]1jcromero 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're doing what you have to do to get ahead. You're crafting a good skill set. You're making money. That's good. I'm glad you're doing those things; that means you have your head in the game.
I re-read what I wrote and realized the tone was way too harsh.
Yes, women will get some jobs easier. Their value in those position is determined by looks. That's your observation (which you cite as something as neither new or insightful).
What I'm trying to point out is that you need to frame your problem more as a hurdle rather than wall. It's an obstacle that can be overcome. If you've come this far you can easily go further.
You got this.
[–]bhaknu 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Well, I'm in a union job where seniority matters for schedule and pay. Women get to start earlier because they are hired earlier, stay more senior for life, and therefore have better careers than men.
[–]PanzerBatallion 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, and men hired before you do too. Seniority has fuck all to do with gender. You know what the line around union shops is? If you don't like it, you should have started earlier.
[–]bhaknu 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not an industry-wide union. Many companies are union but most are considered stepping stones to one of the top five companys. Pay at top companys is roughly triple what it is at the bottom ones. Two people can start in the industry (and union) at the same time, but that membership date doesnt transfer to the top-tier job at which one might retire. I've been in my union over a decade. Yet my seniority is based on 9 months ago because that's when I was hired at this company. What I'm saying is this: some of the girls use the P-pass to get hired out of the shit companys many years earlier than the men. The 35-40 year old guy just spent 15 years accumulating seniority in a shit company that he will throw away when we moves to greener pastures. The P-pass allows the woman to accumulate only 5 or so years of worthless throw-away seniority before settling in to the job (and seniority list) that will take her to retirement. Seniorty is blind to gender, of course. What we have here is one gender being hired at a younger age with less time paying dues in shit companys.
[–]1jcromero -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why not become a contract worker?
[–]1WeedDaddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Pure economics.
The positive discrimination of women is pure politics though.
[–]1jcromero 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
There's a big difference between labor value and discrimination. I mean, if a woman does less work than a man then she deserves pay. This is typically the case in labor intensive fields like construction. Just like men can't as easily make a living wage from stripping (there are fugly women at the strip club in my town, ugh).
Systemic oppression (is more like, the system itself prevents women from succeeding. Like colleges not admitting women, or the OP not being able to get a promotion because promotions are based on quotas rather than talent.
[–]1WeedDaddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There are few industries where employee productivity is closely measured and directly reflected in pay. The public opinion is that people should be paid the same for the same position (and how much they actually produce "value" should be out of consideration).
[–]1jcromero 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I feel like positions are probably determined by both productivity as well as social status. Productivity tends to vary between the job and the person, considerations of social status is where discrimination typically take place, although productivity tends to be where higher ups cite.
[–]stemgang 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I guess the MRA subreddit must be dead, because I keep seeing their stuff here.
You are 100% correct; women have the world handed to them on a silver platter, and they play the game of life on easy mode.
Also, this has nothing whatsoever to do with TRP.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Quotas. Corporations have them to meet requirements for getting sales from gov't and Fortune 500. Universities and gov't offices also favor hiring women, which lowers the number available on the market.
Women used to just dominate corporate HR departments, yet now increasingly marketing, and definitely first-line management roles in all departments. In the large tech world, much of actual marketing work is outsourced to small content creation firms (men) and male contractors.
Salary-wise, women in their 20's earn more in urban areas today than men. Fact.
Long-term however, women's earning peak in their late 30's while men's earning peak in their late 40's, early 50's.
I can't believe the SJW comments here that you're not charismatic. I am in 3-4 different corporate offices each week and see what you see.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I have to deal with a lot of marketing/PR people at my job. The entire industry is almost entirely made up of women. A lot of offices are set up so an older guy is the boss, but all of the other employees are women between the ages of 25-40. I've noticed that a lot of the actual creative work is being done by men, though (often behind the scenes and is outsourced). Women gravitate towards marketing/PR because the jobs involve lots of "networking" and going to stupid events and talking endlessly about pointless bullshit.
[–]snorted_the_red_pill -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'll be honest, I don't quite understand your dislike of marketing and PR.
I'm personally a marketing guy, currently not working but out of choice (long story). You seem to think it's all bullshit, soft shit.
Not necessarily. Marketing is about fulfilling the customer's needs. There's plenty of numbers work, too. Marketing can be really easy and really hard. Depends on what you're doing.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't think it's all bullshit. Some people are really good at it and do a great job. I do think a lot of it is stupid and pretty ineffective, though- particularly social media marketing "gurus." I've seen shit tons of money wasted by people who pretend to be experts at what they're doing.
[–]snorted_the_red_pill 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah absolutely. There's good and there's bad, like in every profession.
[–]NietzscheExplosion 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well men have to be better than women in many fields to get the job.
I have a hard time feeling sorry about this with marketing. I never met a marketing person worth their salt in 10 years of civilian life.
[–]taracus 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I am happy for her of course but I am also pissed I work my ass off for each and every opportunity I get. Right now I work the same job she does except at a different company where I have to do vastly more work, and get paid slightly less.
"My younger sister is much more charismatic than me and in the industry of marketing that is usually valued more than having numbers on your CV, life is unfair"
[–][deleted] 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]CQC3 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's true that STEM is where the money is at right now, but most people are actually not suited to any of those fields. They'd make money, and that's great, but they'd never have the drive, affinity or skill to become more than mediocre.
[–]taracus 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You are probably right, but you have to realise that when you work in an industry where appearance and social skills are valued, we all know the advantage women have over (BP) men.
If I was hiring and picked between a woman and a man with the same qualifications, but I knew the woman would have an advantage because she is a woman, I dont see myself hiring the man (vice versa if it was an industry where men had an advantage for being men).
Thinking this is some conspiracy seems far fetched.
[–][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Snazzy_Serval 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I am not saying there is some conspiracy. I am illustrating that women are advantaged in the job market right now because of media propaganda that women are better suited for any client facing work.
My dad is a recruiter and deals with the same thing you do. The ones who do the best and essentially dominate the field are attractive young women.
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/has-war-boys-entered-workforce
Has the ‘War on Boys’ Entered the Workforce?
[–]Dookiestain_LaFlair 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just tell the company you are transgender and you are being discriminated against so you demand more money.
[–]1favours_of_the_moon 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yet another example of why NOT to be an ORGANIZATION MYN.
[–]Pinkmistiscool 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This plays just like maturity between the sexes. Women mature and reach their full potential much more quickly because they need to be ready to parent as soon as they can physically pop out a new human which is fairly young considering. But that's it. No more maturation. Its why we discuss women as the oldest teenager. And also why they are at the top of their worth and begin the decline early. Your sister has mastered, and is, the top of what she can be to an employer (generally speaking). So her rate of compensation is more or less maxed out immediately because there's nowhere left to go but down in value as a sales girl (declining looks). You, however, are just beginning to scratch the surface of your potential value to an employer so you begin lower on the scale with a much higher ceiling, if there is one at all. Just like a man's maturation process... Women will out pace us in a life sprint, but like the tortoise and the hare, when it comes to the marathon that is our life reality, slow and steady definitely wins all races.
I'll just say this - how are her social skills? You sound a bit like the guy who says "I'm nice, why don't girls like me". Doing a good job usually means you get to keep your job. Advancement is mostly based on social skills - make friends, put together outings, be the one others want to be around.
Yes being a good looking woman gives her an advantage. Those random offers may not be so random. Start building your professional social circle and stop assuming that your ability and effort are all you need to succeed.
[–]Your_Coke_Dealer1 points 10 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Nut up and be more social. The reason women are favored for marketing is they have this as a natural trait. The point of TRP is to put us on the social level of women or even give an advantage. But it's not natural and takes work. So cease bitching and work harder
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
it's a myth marketing is a woman's field. Marketing involves alot of math to track spending and measure impact. Marketing relies on alot of technology: Marketo, salesforce.com, etc.
[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Marketing IS SUPPOSED TO INVOLVE a lot of math to track spending and measure impact.
FTFY. There is no shortage of marketing department that are complete clusterfucks. Just look here for lulz.
https://www.google.com/#q=super+bowl+ad+outrage
[–]snorted_the_red_pill -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
THANK YOU.
I'm sick of people hating on marketing. Like seriously, what the fuck? It's almost as full of numbers as finance at times...
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Everyone thinks they know "marketing" which is not equivalent to advertising or making websites.
[–]snorted_the_red_pill 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah pretty much. What's your definition of marketing then? How would you describe it?
it varies by industry and the trend now is from Pragmatic Marketing to Sirius Decisions / Act-on Methodologies supported by marketing automation tools.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
That's fine.
What's your plan for the next few years?
I'll tell you hers- party till 30's, next she'll probably lock down a provider and pump out a couple of kids killing her career.
By that time you can have acquired enough experience and know-how to get out and build your own marketing firm.
[–]AZTRP 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You have a victim mentality, not one of ownership.
I know your intent was to post about her having the upper hand because she's a female but your presentation tells another story.
Being in marketing you might want to take an objective look at what you wrote and see what you were actually selling.
[–]p00pey 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
not only does he have a victim mentality, he's getting upset he's not getting the responses he expected here. Sad stuff...
News flash, the world is not fair. You are owed nothing, you deserve nothing except what you work for and gain on your own...
Pretty much. OP's gotta start owning shit, and start improving on a shitty situation, instead of crying and whinging.
Fuck whinging.
You are owed nothing, you deserve nothing
Yet women are owed a lot.
The world is not anymore a blank slate, but everything valuable is owned by someone. Success in the modern world requires organized lobbying and controlling the Social Justice narrative, that's why women are winning the War on Men.
[–]RedWinter88 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I know that feel OP. I too have a younger sister and for me she was always the "pretty" one, which is the advantage. So while I'm in marketing and sales, I had to listen to how amazing she is compared to me for going to be a dentist... Except she swapped to psychology and a family friend basically offered her a job as the assistant to the head of HR at huge firm with a nice salary before she even started her senior year in psychology, and zero work experience in an office or management.
Of course there's other things like I had to work and buy my own car while she didnt. It definitely made me bitter.
Through that I realized that in the end, I'm the one whose aging like wine and she is aging like cheese. I will be the one to put in the hard work to get to the top while she won't.
"Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one."
[–]snorted_the_red_pill 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Your sister isn't aging like cheese. She's aging like milk.
[–]Grimsterr -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
An industry that favors women actually favoring women? You don't say.
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