Aren't men just as bad?

anonymousapple111 · 2016-10-16T13:29:54+00:00

Men are held accountable for their assholery. Women aren't, at least in today's world

DigitalScetis · 2016-10-16T13:57:59+00:00

Men are imperfect and capable of evil...but we have a thousand and one subreddits, forums, feminist interest groups and entire governments pledged to not only remind us of this imperfection, but to accuse us of bizarre, new faults simply for having been born male.

What men need for a change is a place or a group that reminds them of what they are doing right for a change, and to remind them what isn't their fault.

Since it's Sunday, I am reminded that just because Christ and I were both born male doesn't mean that I am the one who takes on "the sins of the world," simply because I am an adult male. The responsibility for my own faults is burden enough, and is far more responsible than what the man-blamers do, where nothing is ever their fault.

account4189 · 2016-10-16T18:51:19+00:00

No. Misanthropy is not a better position to hold because men and women aren't the same, and you can make better predictions about how men, women, and children will relate to each other by keeping the categories separate.

Men cannot be as "vile, selfish, and opportunistic" as women from a biological standpoint - at least if you put any stock in the way that risk, danger, and genetic variation and transmission are handled in a sexually dimorphic species. In order for females to be the preserved sex, i.e. the evolutionary bottleneck, the males must be disposable.

Almost everywhere in the animal kingdom where an animal is split into sex, the males are more willing to sacrifice themselves for the females. Sometimes this is direct sacrifice - like in the case of certain male animals that die either during or after fertilization. At the very least, it's male vs male competition in the dominance hierarchy where the males weed each other out (sometimes to the death) and then the females wait for the winner - not having to risk their own lives in the reproductive game. Closer to home, in mammals with longer gestation periods where the female is vulnerable during pregnancy and the newly-born can't be fully provisioned for by the female, the males often either help with the young directly or provision the female while she takes care of the young.

In none of these instances do you see adult females assisting adult males when it comes to the core task of reproduction. So as a general principle, it appears that a good way to describe how the sexes care about each other is something like: males care for females and chidren, females care for children. In other words, men include women's welfare within the concept of their own welfare, but women exclude male welfare from their own concept of welfare. Both are self-interested, but males are apparently biologically motivated to help females under more general circumstances than the other way around.

At their core, women don't care about men. They CAN'T care about men in order for the biology to work the way it works in almost all other sexually dimorphic species. THE BIOLOGY IS WHY YOU MAKE THE DISTINCTION.

If you don't care about making more accurate predictions about how people behave around members of the opposite sex, same sex, and children - then go ahead and consider all people the same.

And a last point (not directed to you but some of the others), blaming all of this on social construction - or the way that women aren't being held accountable - or other lack of constraints is off-target. It only gets at the proximal cause and not the ultimate cause. The reason why women aren't held as accountable and the reason why it's such a struggle to give accountability to women is because both men and women subconsciously (instinctually) know how the biological dynamics are supposed to work. Animal society is preceded by the essential nature.

And as far as the MGTOW who argue that men are just as bad because men are slaves to their nature, too - fair enough, but it depends on what you call "bad." A different perspective is that because men's care/concern operates on more of the human species at any given time than females' - perhaps men should get the nod for being "better." Granted, this isn't consciously chosen. Although men and women are both selfish, what motivates and creates positive affect in both is different, and if we're anything like the rest of the animal kingdom, males are less discriminatory when it comes to how our selfish instincts manifest in caring behavior towards other members of our species.

So if you think that it's "good" to be less picky about caring about others, then men are better. (Granted, men still don't care about other men a whole lot either.)

good_man_gone · 2016-10-16T14:30:52+00:00

I generally believe that the world is full of cunts. Male and female.

So why stop at hating just the women?

Whats your point? This is a men only space where we talk about men stuff and male issues. This isnt social justice 3.0 nor is this people going their own way.

lostapwbm · 2016-10-16T16:17:34+00:00

Aren't men just as bad?

Yes.

Here's the difference: Men don't demand to be treated better than what their actions merit based on their chromosomes.

whatevruminator · 2016-10-16T13:40:26+00:00

I've met men who are just full blown assholes just because they think it's cool, they want to be alpha, or for some other stupid reason. So I can agree to an extent. But society sees jerkish men as, well, jerks. They're held accountable. Women, however, are rarely held accountable.

A man can dump his girlfriend for domestic violence and the man will be viewed as a pussy, instead of the women actually being looked down upon for her actions. When a women dumps a man for domestic violence, the women is sympathized with and the man is shamed on.

novice1988 · 2016-10-16T14:02:51+00:00

[deleted]

Azure9861 · 2016-10-16T13:14:49+00:00

Dudes are dicks in different ways, e.g. punching you to look cool.. in front of that girl he likes to try and be alpha. So yeah, a lot of men are dicks, but their dickishness is motivated by their dicks.

Natsume25 · 2016-10-16T19:11:33+00:00

In short, human have our natures, and each nature is, at it's core, pretty vile and disgusting.

In modern society, however, men are heavily punished for acting upon their natures. Women are not only praised but encouraged to act upon their natures at males expense.

KamiMoon · 2016-10-16T19:42:04+00:00

Violent white knights are worse than women.

Happen_On_A_Ciggy · 2016-10-16T15:18:38+00:00

Stop dating assholes. Make him a sandwich instead of bitching at him. You should help your man and not take him down. Please stop coming here for dating advice.

Eyes_Of_The_Dragon · 2016-10-16T14:19:23+00:00

Many men are assholes. But if these men don't make any attachments to women, and live simple lives by themselves, why do you care?

Wallstreet3 · 2016-10-16T15:05:16+00:00

The difference is that women are placed on a pedestal and given free reign. Their bad behavior is generally encouraged under 'yo go gurl'.

Zombocom1911 · 2016-10-16T15:20:20+00:00

Most are equally vile, selfish and opportunistic as women.

I wasn't. But women taught me well.

PinHunter65 · 2016-10-16T15:56:14+00:00

Most men have been turned into assholes by the very females you speak of. Lots of guys (including myself) were once the nice guys. The ones who thought if you treated a woman well, she would want to be with you. Well, us good guys, grew up. We finally saw women for what they are. Women had their chance, and now they will reap what they have sown.

CaughtInTheNet · 2016-10-16T16:13:14+00:00

Women are more pragmatic and motivated purely by utility. They define attraction through benefit. With men, love and attraction are governed by a much simpler mechanism. Women can switch off on a dime leaving devastating consequences. Their love is always conditional and it keeps men submissive and on their toes. They are hypergamous creatures and have a wretched entitlement that we have conditioned into them because of our slavery towards sexual validation. A man may usually just dump a girl early in a relationship after sexual gratification is achieved whereas a woman will jump ship after years when she finds an option that offers her more utility - most of the time you'll never see it coming. They are calculating, manipulative and conniving. You can probably count the exceptions on one hand- even then the right circumstances may bring out their true nature too. But in all fairness, men aren't much better but they are just less sophisticated with their deception and have simpler needs. The grievances of MGTOW exist only because men have created the very monsters they speak of. I pity men that have fallen victim to the ruthless utility based pragmatism of a hypergamous female. The women who complain about men being pigs are attracted to those same alpha males. They hate themselves for it but they can't help it - it's in their nature. It really is a big mess and Mother Nature is laughing.

Flaye2 · 2016-10-16T16:19:31+00:00

Men are just as bad, but men get punished when caught doing bad things, women get cuddled.

ShacklesBegone · 2016-10-16T18:37:50+00:00

You framed things wrong. It's not that men and women are bad, it's that we're programmed to behave in ways that are incompatible with commonly held beliefs. MGTOW helps to dispel these beliefs.

slappydapussy · 2016-10-16T20:06:28+00:00

I don't hate women.

There are plenty of white knights and manginas that will never recant. They are equally liable for the fall of our civilization.

But even the WK and M's are nowhere as selfish, vile or opportunistic as women.

nigelh · 2016-10-16T20:53:02+00:00

Do not confuse MGTOW with misogyny. Yes, many men come to MGTOW after being badly treated by women, the system or both and have a really negative view of them but that is not part of the deal. MGTOW, fully formed, tends to lead to indifference. We have moved on and doing other things with our lives.

freethinker1976 · 2016-10-16T21:15:28+00:00

Many men cheat on their loving and faithful wives. They too are the enemy. If you're gonna marry and have kids at least have the self respect to divorce before fucking around you pieces of shits.

All these asshole men are making it worse for the rest of us. Either go your own way or keep your dick in your pants.

I've never cheated on a girlfriend, not even ones. I never had the need. I either stayed faithful or i broke it off. I just don't understand why you'd go trough all that fucking trouble only to casually throw those years away for some fresh pussy when you could have had that freedom all along by simply staying single.

Infidelity is a weakness and such weak men need to get weeded out of the gene pool. If you're such a slave to your reptile brain your better off just fucking a whore every ones in a while. That at least is more honest.

squeezeonein · 2016-10-16T22:07:21+00:00

This forum is not about hate but personal improvement. You will not find a witchhunt here with hysterical statements about women having sex with goats, everything we state is from experience or opinionated observation. It may seem that this forum is about hating women but that is merely because of its almost entirely male userbase. When men have problems we talk about them and solve them in that way. Those problems that cannot be solved are usually external to our ethos and sex and that is why we treat them warily.

FreeNClear32 · 2016-10-17T00:32:20+00:00

I hate everybody equally.

CaptainStardust · 2016-10-17T02:38:21+00:00

Men are worse.

oldredder · 2016-10-17T05:57:22+00:00

NO, NOT EVEN A LITTLE.

glaasjejus · 2016-10-17T09:57:26+00:00

MGTOW doesn't necessarily imply hate or even dislike of women. It implies only that you don't need their approval to live the life you want to live.

rahl_r · 2016-10-16T20:25:09+00:00

Different men, different experiences, different ways to approach the subject.

Personally, I can merely get off my ass, walk to the window and look outside to see humans for what they really are: a failed breed, nature's dead-end. See, there's a lot of asshollery and/or selfishness going on. It is not thought through (and it cannot be, as humans are cognitively impaired by their very own nature). From my perspective, it doesn't really matter whether one acts selfish so that they can accumulate enough resources to attract the opposite sex, or whether one prowls around to reach the member of the opposite sex with the highest amount of accumulated resources (and prod them further to accumulate even more), because all this boils down to one fundamental motivation: to reproduce. And that sucks. Why? Because life is a question; by adding another generation to it, one simply embeds that question with another question -- as opposed to finding answers.

It is misanthropy for me. On top of that, I'm fairly sure I'm a member the generation that is going to see the world burn in their lifetime. During such time, more ugly facets of human nature are gonna surface, I suspect.

illegal_toothpaste · 2016-10-16T15:03:09+00:00

ill agree with that. we definitely have our faults

the reason we talk about women is because the manosphere is the only place that men can hear the truth about women. in the real world criticising any woman or women in general will get you fired from youre job, socially ostracized and branded a misogynist

its a female chauvinist society

theres psas telling women about abusive men everywhere, but when it comes to women we have to pretend theyre perfect. so when a guy does meet an abusive woman that uses a sexist government apparatus to fuck him hes usually totally blinsided.

that being said, im not mgtow because women are fallible humans with fualts. im a mgtow because of the legal disadvantage men face within committed relationships.

digdig66 · 2016-10-16T13:21:39+00:00

[removed]

Title	Aren't men just as bad?
Author	novice1988
Upvotes	11
Comments	57
Date	October 16, 2016 1:07 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/57rbyd/arent_men_just_as_bad/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/arent-men-just-as-bad.617238 https://theredarchive.com/post/617238

Comments