I expected better from this Sub

MrHolte · 2019-08-04T07:09:42+00:00

The true meaning of feminism is wanting equal rights for women that men generally have.

Congratulations - mission accomplished! Can you name one right that men have that women don't?

they could easily generalize men rights calling them people who hate women

Are you saying they don't? You aware AgainstMensRights is an actual sub right?

There are feminists actively blocking attempts to discuss Mens issues...

Case in point, an MP from my home city, Birmingham...

"you can have your discussion on male suicide when I get equal representation in Parliament" - Jess Phillips.

I looked at your post history expecting to see the same post in Feminism or TwoX but for some reason it's not there? Wonder why. Could it be because you're a tone-policing hypocrite?

aussietoads · 2019-08-04T07:22:53+00:00

Your expectations are your problem.

Jadenent0623 · 2019-08-04T06:55:25+00:00

The issue is tribalism. That’s why the two groups can’t get along. Feminists feel the same about us, they think we’re misogynistic scumbags who want to rape and murder women at any given opportunity. Again, they make this based off a few bad apples that fuck up everything, then they bunch us up with the Incels and anyone other man they disagree with. This creates a further divide between the two groups and creates hostility in both sides. Due to feeling disrespected and disregarded as serious guys who just want what’s best for us as much as feminists want what’s best for them, the Men’s Rights group becomes hostile to feminists in return and then it just creates a cycle of further resentment.

That’s the best I can put it.

mikesteane · 2019-08-04T07:00:26+00:00

Why are you guys so hostile towards feminists?

Do you not actually read the posts?

you guys tend to generalize them and paint them as evil

When a feminist puts graffiti on the grave of an 8 year old boy suggesting his murder by a woman was a victory for feminism, it is feminists bringing themselves into disrepute. We just draw attention to some of their behaviour. If you associate yourself with a movement that spews hatred, you expect to be labelled along with that group. Would you say "I am a communist, why do you paint us so badly just because some communist governments have instuted murderous regimes?"

aren't even true feminist

That old canard again. Don't tell me "feminism is just about equality between the sexes." Well the practice has been very different from the sanitised versions.

they could easily generalize men rights calling them people who hate women, have no respect for women

But to do so, they have to pick on outliers, not high profile MRAs and people who don't even identify themselves as MRAs such as Roosh in his previous incarnation as a PUA. Or they confound entirely different movements with the MRM and then condemn us on the basis of e.g. PUAs or extreme right-wingers.

So, I explained it to you, as you asked.

MRA-Sid · 2019-08-04T07:11:55+00:00

Men have equal rights? 🤔 that’s a joke. Men are being oppressed and discriminated by government due to feminists putting pressure on them to make policies in favor of women. Feminists have support of media, politicians etc and men’s rights activists have no support because mainstream media doesn’t care about men.

tenchineuro · 2019-08-04T07:36:44+00:00

The true meaning of feminism is wanting equal rights for women that men generally have.

Feminism is a real movement, with real organizations, and you don't seem to know a single thing about real feminism, or maybe you don't care.

The feminist idea of equality is to arrest and jail male DV victims, this is written into law by the feminist written VAWA via the feminist written Duluth Model. If you support feminism you won't be welcome here (although you probably won't get banned), but perhaps you would be more at home in r|feminism where you can't question the existence of male privilege, the patriarchy, or the universal innocence of women.

Here's Karen Straughan's response to "those aren't real feminists"

----------

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

thom430 · 2019-08-04T08:03:12+00:00

The true meaning of feminism is wanting equal rights for women that men generally have.

And here lies the entire fucking problem.

Feminism talks about rights without talking about duties, as if rights exist in some sort of vacuum.

Men have had the duty to go to war, in the form of conscription. Have women? No, for the vast majority of countries for the vast majority of time, that is a big fat fucking no.

But muh rights. You don't deserve the same rights without taking on the same duties.

cyruszane · 2019-08-04T07:06:09+00:00

I see where you are coming from, but I have to ask do you see where they are coming from?

Put your self in their shoes, I don't think it will be hard to do. Or to be honest I hope it is hard for you to do, but we live in a shit world at times and it is more likely you can see your self this way.

Ignored, forgotten, told you are evil all the time, and every day. When many of these guys reached out they had their hands slapped away, told they were not good enough or they were the cause of so much wrong doing. The loudest people in the feminist movement started this, sad but true.

I think a lot of what you saw was reaction to extremest and if you look deeper, past the surface of anger, you will see the truth.

People posting how when a woman teacher rapes a student it is sex, but if a male does it with a female student it is rape.. both are rape, anger because some men here have been hurt and abused and then laughed at for their abuse, for their pain.

I noticed u/jadenent0623 talked on tribalism, so I will spare my speech on that. right on btw!

I think at their core, the centrist of the two groups have more in common with each other, then the extremest who, in their own right, have a lot in common with each other.

I have made other comments to other feminists who have come here to talk, if you want check my history. But I think you found some of the most extreme points, and I have to ask.. was that what you came here to find? or did you come to find something else?

Also, MRA's remember this person has come here to talk and have a proper open dialog, save your down votes and help them see your side of the matter.

mikesteane · 2019-08-04T08:14:51+00:00

The usage of the flair "false accusation" is to identify the post as being about a false accusation, not to label the post itself. Just thought you should know.

goodmod · 2019-08-04T08:38:14+00:00

This is what you should read in order to understand: a comment by Karen Straughan.