Baby boys are welcomed into the world a little differently in America.

[–]SporkTornado 73 points74 points75 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+]HandOverYourCummies1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

And they also push for it to be practiced in other countries, especially african countries.

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I'd argue the babies in the US scream enough to make it clear as well.

Altho in the end neither avoided the cut

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Glans lose sensitivity due to chaffing and any other removed part will be that less to compensate for older age's natural decline of sensitivity (like if you already have no or little pendulum left)

It makes any issue related to sensitivity and or erectile dysfunction more likely to happen, and to happen sooner in life.

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I’m a bit dubious about the image, but...

Are you fucking kidding me? Someone is clearly hurt after having a bad experience with someone making a choice over their genitals, and all you can do is laugh?

Do you not feel a bit bad?

As a human, do you not think we should have a say over what happens to our genitals? In what world is it ok to perform cosmetic surgery on a baby?

Now, if you’re religious you have no excuse. Religious indoctrination is evil and insidious, and the only thing that keeps dogma alive are - frankly - fucking idiots. That goes the same for FGM. In what world is it ok for a non-medical person to perform cosmetic surgery and then suck an infant’s dick to remove the blood? A procedure that could leave the child with a life-limiting STI!

So how about no one performs cosmetic surgery on other people’s genitals without the patient’s consent? I know, I’m a revolutionary.

You’re fucking sick.

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[+]wipeandiwipeandiwipe1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Hey, who’s your guy who does mastectomies on non-verbal, non-consenting babies? Asking for friend.

Is this the same guy who won’t perform life-saving surgery to remove a tongue tie when a baby literally cannot sustain itself?

Oh wait is this the same guy who’ll perform cosmetic surgery on a child’s penis without their informed consent?

Not sure I’ve heard of preventative surgery for genetic wizard sleeve cancer or mutilating a penis because a child couldn’t eat, though.

What hospital do you go to? Do they also perform back ally abortions too?

Better luck next time.

[–]Zaero777 -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+]wipeandiwipeandiwipe1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

It’s like chopping off an ear as a preventative measure of against ear infections, then?

Something like that?

[–]Zaero777 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+]wipeandiwipeandiwipe1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

None of those things are the same as an elective cosmetic procedure.

tonsils aren’t removed as a preventative measure. I still have mine - just like my tongue tie.
eye drops aren’t an invasive procedure and it’s kind of dangerous to give children warfarin. It’s also dangerous to adults, too.
vaccines cause adults.

Do you see the where you’re wrong?

Next!

[–]Zaero777 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I see the difference. The point I'm trying to make is that we take measures to reduce risk. Wether or not the measures are justified depends on the relative cost/benefit ratio.

Having an intact foreskin is associated with a (very small, I know) risk of phimosis, infection, cancer, etc.

There are also risks associated with circumcision. The fact is, if you have good access to healthcare to treat any of these problems as they come up, circumcision is probably not necessary.

But, banning the practice based on the opinion (and it is an opinion) that it MGM is a weak, uneducated, and potentially harmful act.

Also, women who have sex with uncircumcised men have an increased risk of developing cervical cancer. Facts are facts.

Give me some facts based on sound research to support your argument, so we can have a discussion based on more than opinion and feelings.

[+]wipeandiwipeandiwipe1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Dude. In most cases it’s literally an elective procedure that serves no immediate life extending purpose. That’s a fact.

It’s also a fact that a baby cannot give consent.

Unlike all of your examples which are either emergency medicine or a performed when someone is old enough to consent. Those are your facts, not mine.

If an adult wants to mutilate their own body, that’s fine. (Except not really https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47292307)

But I’m not entirely sure what this has to do with an elective cosmetic procedure, aka mutilating a child’s penis:

Also, women who have sex with uncircumcised men have an increased risk of developing cervical cancer. Facts are facts.

So you show me where I called for an outright ban - because I didn’t. But like all elective cosmetic procedures, it has to wait until someone is old enough to do with their own fucking genitals.

100% ban it for religious reasons.

Just stop it, man. Your obsession with mutilating non-consenting children’s genitals is fucking weird.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok we have a lot to cover but you said it yourself that you wanted facts.

risk of phimosis, infection, cancer, etc.

increased risk of developing cervical cancer.

Give me some facts based on sound research

From the Canadian Paediatrics Society:

“It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI.” And UTIs can easily be treated with antibiotics.

“The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1,231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.” And circumcision is not effective prevention, condoms must be used regardless.

"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction ... allow[ing] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

“Decreased penile cancer risk: [Number needed to circumcise] = 900 – 322,000” to prevent a single case of penile cancer.

Cervical cancer is from HPV which has a vaccine. Which is so effective that (turning to news) "Australia could become first country to eradicate cervical cancer. Free vaccine program in schools leads to big drop in rates."

These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly, all of these items have a different and more effective treatment or prevention method.

Wether or not the measures are justified depends on the relative cost/benefit ratio.

Actually what justifies it is medical necessity. I don't know where people get this idea of a ratio (which presents it's own issues, more later). Medical necessity is what's necessary to override anyone's body autonomy rights. Otherwise the decision can go to the patient himself later in life.

The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:

Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary. In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established.

http://www.cps.ca/documents/position/circumcision

This is from basic medical ethics, which is another whole topic we can go into if you want. But the medical ethics on this are clear.

There is no pressing need for circumcision at birth, so the decision can go to the patient himself later in life.

To go over a ratio a bit more: The issue with this is the harms and risks are unknown. There are significant issues with determining what is and what is not a complication.

The AAP wrote: The true incidence of complications after newborn circumcision is unknown, in part due to differing definitions of “complication” and differing standards for determining the timing of when a complication has occurred (ie, early or late). Adding to the confusion is the comingling of “early” complications, such as bleeding or infection, with “late” complications such as adhesions and meatal stenosis.”

They also wrote: “Late complications do occur, most commonly adhesions, skin bridges, and meatal stenosis. ... It is unknown how often these late complications require surgical repair; this area requires further study.”

Andrew Freedman, one of the authors of the AAP paper, independently wrote "In particular, there was insufficient information about the actual incidence and burden of nonacute complications."

Alarm bells should be going off in your mind right now. Because how can a ratio be done if the complications, which is one half of the equation, is unknown.

We can look at some numbers through. Independent studies have come out as much higher than generally thought: “The incidence of post-circumcision complications at 2 years is much higher than expected at 11.5%”

And last but not least arguably the complication rate is literally 100%, since it removes the foreskin which is the most sensitive part of the penis. (Full study.)

Ethicist Brian Earp also discusses this concept, saying Ethicist Brian “that if you assign any value whatsoever to the foreskin itself, then its sheer loss should be counted as a harm or a cost to the surgery. ... [Only] if you implicitly assign it a value of zero then it’s seen as having no cost by removing it, except for additional surgical complications.”

He continues on to discuss the flaws of a risk-to-benefit ratio, how the value of the foreskin is seemingly assigned a value of zero, the application of personal preference of the parent vs the patient, and several other considerations.

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Here’s an interview you should watch with various women who have undergone FGM (female circumcision as they call it) and they say: it’s normal, it doesn’t hurt, uncircumcised women “can’t stand it”, “not doing it is not normal”, "they all go through this”, that it’s done by a doctor in a hospital, that “she will be happy about it”, etc.

Note what’s absent here is the mother’s thinking they’re harming their daughters. They say it doesn’t do any harm, that they’re doing it out of tradition, religion, social norms, and that it’s done by a doctor.

As for your previous questions. A woman can decide for herself if she wants a prophylactic mastectomy. We don't remove the breast buds off newborns. For a lingual/labial frenectomy there is an actual issue present which needs to be fixed.

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[+]A_one_legged_man1 points 7 years ago [recovered]locked comment (2 children) | Copy Link

OK. Women also prefer a man who can get it up, unlikely you will be able to with that desensitised numb dick.

[+]TheHelpfulDad -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years agolocked comment (1 child) | Copy Link

Title	Baby boys are welcomed into the world a little differently in America.
Author	carbot117
Upvotes	222
Comments	128
Date	July 14, 2019 1:59 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ccxj0o/baby_boys_are_welcomed_into_the_world_a_little/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/baby-boys-are-welcomed-into-the-world-a-little.873606 https://theredarchive.com/post/873606

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