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Police are 'trained to deliberately hide evidence they don't want defence to see' finds report exposing full extent of disclosure failures after collapse of a series of rape trials

furchfur

April 3, 2018
614 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5572445/Police-trained-hide-evidence-dont-want-defence-see.html
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Title Police are 'trained to deliberately hide evidence they don't want defence to see' finds report exposing full extent of disclosure failures after collapse of a series of rape trials
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 614
Comments 41
Date April 3, 2018 10:03 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/89c4lx/police_are_trained_to_deliberately_hide_evidence/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/police-are-trained-to-deliberately-hide-evidence.903404
https://theredarchive.com/post/903404
Top posts by furchfur

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Nearly 500 men and boys are freed from 'house of torture' Islamic boarding school where they were chained up, raped by staff and starved 'in the name of teaching them the Koran' in Nigeria. OP: We will see how much media coverage this gets.

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Teenager, 18, who lied that ex-boyfriend drugged and raped her after he refused to rekindle their romance is convicted of wasting police time

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Comments

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points86 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Why are Brits not rioting over this.

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points95 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Because the police would arrest us for even just talking about it publicly, even on social media if someone was offended then it legally constitutes a hate crime, and it's not like we're swimming in money able to leave our jobs and families to fight court battles or go to prison.

[+]arnoldwhat -11 points-10 points-9 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Does disdain for police/authority follow political lines in the UK or is it pretty ubiquitous?

I ask because the impression I get is that no one in the UK really likes or respects the police while here in the US your view of police is often tied to your political stance.

That leads me to another thought:

1) this subreddit and the larger MRM seems to be more right leaning than left

2) generally police and the wider legal system is not viewed favorably by MRAs

So here is the question: If most people here are from the US, are right leaning and do not view the police favorably - how do you square your (negative) view of police with the conservative right's borderline worship of police?

Has anyone here had their view of police drastically changed simply due to men's issues?

[–]teddtbhoy 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Just because you’re opinions align more with one group doesn’t mean you agree with all of their points.

I think this sub has more of a problem with the current state of the legal system rather than just a dislike of police (an extension of which being police that go outside their roles negatively.)

The left on the other hand seems to have a fundamental hatred of police and blame their problems on them rather than the legal system.

[–]arnoldwhat -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]teddtbhoy 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t mean it as a blanket statement, the difference is that the usual argument is that the police threw them in jail rather than the law is fucked.

[–]arnoldwhat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Gotcha, that makes sense.

[–]HigherDimension 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The fact you are getting downvoted is absolutely baffling to me. This is an extremely well thought out and presented question. Must've rustled some jimmies.

[–]arnoldwhat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You can't win them all. Others have made some good points though.

Must've rustled some jimmies.

Maybe? I wasn't trying to, but I imagine the right leaning MRA with conflicting feelings about police description might have hit close to home for a few guys here.

[–]666Evo 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

right leaning MRA

This is probably why you're downvoted so heavily. I think you'll find that the majority of people here would be from a fairly wide bell, with the top being somewhere centre-left.

You're just conflating a hatred of third wave feminism with "right-wing", like an SJW would.

[–]Seicair 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m libertarian, so I’m for equality and freedom for everyone (i.e. egalitarian not feminist,), and also distrust police because in my view they do way more than they should to keep the peace. No-knock raids, the entire drug war, etc.

I don’t really like the right/left dichotomy, I favor the diamond diagram.

[–]f__ckyourhappiness 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is a new level of Dunning Kruger shitposting.

I hereby dub thee inventor of "Logical Fallacy Soup".

So much wrong mixed altogether in a "seemingly intelligent" way, used only to spoonfeed ignorance in an appealing way.

As Martin Luther King said:

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

[–]arnoldwhat 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I just posed a question based on my assumptions. I never claimed any of it to be fact, just observations I've made.

Would you care to address any of the points I've made?

We're all on the same team here man.

[–]f__ckyourhappiness 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'll upvote you for your civility and your willingness to engage in logical discourse, but you haven't gone down the proper avenues and channels to deserve debate yet, my man.

Take a scientific and critical approach at your own content, review all counterpoints to it, and see if you can actually defend it with solid logic and evidence. After that, ask about why you're wrong.

[–]arnoldwhat -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you want to address my points or question I am willing to have a conversation. If you want to play semantic games take that garbage somewhere else.

[–]tenchineuro 61 points62 points63 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

  • Documents show how police employ tactics to stop handing over vital evidence

  • Dossier reveals how officers and prosecutors hide some materials on a secret list

  • Other accusations include officers being reluctant to record witness statements

One ploy used by police is to put evidence 'on the MG6D', which refers to a list of sensitive unused material which a defendant's legal team does not have access to.

So the police flagrantly (and knowingly) violate the law. Anything to up the number of rape convictions, eh? And of course not one of them will be tried for breaking the law.

If they do this for rape cases, i bet they do this with all the other cases as well.

[–]Lethn 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is one of those problems where the conspiracy is clearly so big that no one person is going to rat out the other because they're all in on it. Even if there were people in the police force who wanted to stop them there were probably that many involved in this that they would probably get charged with a bogus crime and they know it.

Shitty situation for all involved really which is why people should not be worried about stirring up trouble if they're willing to get stuck in.

[–]squishles 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it's something where you consciously decide not to rat someone out or not, it probably looks like this is just the thing you do to most of them, of course the ceiling is up that's the way everyone does it.

For instance, talk to a british person on reddit in a left leaning sub about whether they have free speech, they will swear up and down they do. They think what they have is what free speech is.

[–]teddtbhoy 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Which is ironic when they spend so much time covering up for Muslim rape gangs.

[–]tenchineuro 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So do the Swedish feminists. The German feminists blame the local German men.

[–]FlagrantWrongsDotCom 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well my username seems relevant. Heres a few points.

My ex whose father is former assistant vice undersecretary of defense john rogers egregiously was dating me romantically for a while, would randomly show up at my location even when I didnt tell her where I was often in need of something from me, begged for me to marry her several times, tried to get me to have kids with her, etc. There are literally stacks of text records from her alone just to me of this if you only go from less than a year time period. She is the type of girl that completely freaked out the one instance pretty much ever that she didnt have communication from me for not even a full 24 hours.

Yet despite all of that even after I was invited to her place by her friend because of something she had begged me for she filed a report to police in london stating that we were never even romantically involved and tons of other blatantly factually untrue stuff.

I have a border force agent who denied there was a visa waiver agreement between the US and GB or Canada and GB and denied my right to call the embassy. Those agreements are practically treaties because of underlying security agreements and less than that has caused open war. That agent then claimed I was arrested in GB prior to ever even being in the country.

A police chief in Milwaukee, WI admitted to systematically tampering/falsifying/destroying legally protected records and mishandling those undermining FBI records integrity/credibility and GB records integrity/credibility. This effectively even posed direct threat to law enforcement and service members, tangibly endangering international as well as domestic us security.

Courts that wont correct records, even after pretty much admitting that their records cant be correct, in Milwaukee and a completely different place about 500 miles away that say I had two completely different charges on the exact same day both of which for things that make no sense whatsoever and its impossible that I would have been arrested/processed for the first charge, then drove all the way over to that other location, then got arrested/processed by the times indicated especially given that I have numerous records/witnesses stating theres no way that occurred. Regardless those records still appear and it has materially cost me job opportunities.

And ive still got even more than just this stuff. This is just for me personally.

I'm an ardent supporter of law enforcement. It doesnt matter if a terrorist steals a badge theyre still a terrorist under the law and if people claiming to represent the government become as much of a didnt do anything terrorist as the criminals they are criminal terrorists. If the government cant manage itself, removing and bringing justice to these threats, its a failed government. The courts would no longer be credible and the government then fails at one of its only justifying core functions. In the US this type of stuff is literally explicitly why the founding fathers created the second amendment if you read the literal words in the constitution.

I would frankly just prefer it if people help by contacting their representatives and contacting people in GB (state department, writing London metropolitan, home office, etc) demanding just law enforcement for these egregious and often even formally admitted offenses and doing what else they can to bring justice to reduce the threat posed to everybody. You typically dont just wake up one day and say "hey I'm going to systematically falsify legally protected records and obviously falsely arrest people, endanger other members of law enforcement. Maybe I can even cause an international incident and risk a lot of peoples lives globally too." Youve probably done something before and will do something again. These arent small things by any means. Anything (legal) that people can do to help would be immensely appreciated and could help significantly reduce the threat of the types of stuff like whats noted in OP's article as well as other things.

tl;dr:

Yeah that much stuff and I didnt even really get into that much. Demand just law enforcement and forward the website at least to your obvious representatives. Tell people if they feel like theyre overwhelmed by just a wall of text of a few of these violations that all happened to one individual then imagine what its like being that person or how many others have been severely harmed or killed from things like this. The fact that you likely feel overwhelmed by just the text of a quick summary of a few instances to just one person is all the more reason that people need to be immediately thoroughly investigated and brought to justice by law enforcement. Demand results.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 42 points43 points44 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is "gendered violence against men", an men make-up around 95% of those ever prosecuted.

[–]battyryder 32 points33 points34 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

The police aren't your friends, not anymore.

[–]tenchineuro 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

They never were your friends.

[–]FlagrantWrongsDotCom 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

They are people and no systems are perfect though that shouldnt diminish pursuit of a more optimal system. People trying to subvert/infiltrate law enforcement, like terrorists, every once in a while manage to sneak through and attempt to claim some sort of legitimacy through government to carry out their terrorist agenda. What we need to demand is effective, just and utilized checks and balances. Real law enforcement in a functioning civil society/government are basically always genuine victims friends and often much needed support.

[–]tenchineuro 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Real law enforcement in a functioning civil society/government are basically always genuine victims friends and often much needed support.

Tell that to any man falsely accused of rape. I'm not even talking about the shit above, he is not even considered a victim, of anything.

[–]FlagrantWrongsDotCom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Check my other post lol you are misunderstanding me. Were on the exact same page. Thats what I mean real law enforcement. In the vast majority of contexts if you are competent, genuine law enforcement in 2018 in a "developed" nation or US/GB etc there isnt very significant probability that after competent investigation a false accusation of rape wouldnt become fairly apparent. The individual who was falsely accused would be a victim and people unwilling or unable to competently investigate wouldnt be qualified as real law enforcement. To be clear some departments have good people that are ineffectively trained/inadequately resourced so the fact that they wouldnt be able to necessarily conduct a proper investigation is a matter they need to take up with their resource determining counterparties immediately and doesnt really speak to them as individuals. It would be like somebody giving a person a police costume and plastic handcuffs with no LE training then telling them theyre not real law enforcement. Obviously, nobody bothered to give you the correct stuff. They need to call mom and dad ASAP cause thats going to be a problem.

What I think you are talking about is the public narrative and the practical law enforcement issues at the moment. Is that accurate?

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

What I think you are talking about is the public narrative and the practical law enforcement issues at the moment. Is that accurate?

Yes, exactly.

While I find some of the words spoken encouraging, I don't expect the police to drastically change in a day, if at all. You want to get change like that you need to put some people in jail, and apparently that ain't gonna happen.

[–]FlagrantWrongsDotCom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

You want to get change like that you need to put some people in jail

People who have harmed people criminally only please though.

You really need to contact your representatives and tell them clearly whats concerning you. Most people will be receptive if its fairly documented/reasonable. You dont really need to sit around all day posting comments on the internet hoping something will magically happen. You can be a part of the discussion online also obviously but if this stuff concerns you contact your reps. Its what theyre there for, the good ones anyway.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

People who have harmed people criminally only please though.

So you don't think hiding exculpatory evidence and putting innocent men in jail is enough?

How high is the bar for this?

You really need to contact your representatives and tell them clearly whats concerning you.

As I'm not in or from the UK, I have no say about internal UK politics. But I can tell the difference between right and wrong and have no issue commenting on that basis.

[–]FlagrantWrongsDotCom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Lol no I literally am just saying to adhere to facts. Its absolutely enough for punishment. In the US that would potentially be a federal charge that could carry a maximum penalty of life in prison for conspiracy against human rights if they coordinated with 1 or more other people to hide the evidence. I'm just saying make sure you get the people who are actually responsible.

I have no say about internal UK politics.

Ah. This is a common misconception. There are actually a number of US representatives who you can contact that directly interface with GB including state department reps and congress. How they are handling these types of issues directly impacts and falls under the purview of several law enforcement and security agreements to some extent at a minimum. There the human rights committee in the US that would be relevant. Foreign affairs/relations. Theres also the UN human rights section who has already previously found the UK within the past few years to be a human rights violator.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Theres also the UN human rights section who has already previously found the UK within the past few years to be a human rights violator.

Is there a bigger human rights violator than the UN (edit, I accidentally typed UK)? At least where men are involved. Boko Harem burned hundreds of boys alive and the UN saw no human rights violations, they took no action. It was not until girls were kidnapped (not killed) that the UN saw a vast human rights tragedy, along with the US and the UK and the rest of the world.

[–]Tedesche 24 points25 points26 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Jesus. This is far bigger than rape cases; this is something all of the UK should be in an uproar over.

For what it's worth, I have a friend who used to work for the DA where we live, and the amount of collusion and corruption between the police and the prosecutors is just insane. Nothing like hiding inconvenient evidence AFAIK, but still abhorrent (e.g. prosecutors deliberately doing a bad job at prosecuting cops for crimes committed on the job).

[–]Lupinfujiko 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is shocking.

Why isn't this the top story in the UK today? Police withholding evidence.

That's a fucking bombshell.

[–]BlunderingFool 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You oppose the police state and you wind up jailed, bit of an issue. They're starting to go into dictatorial meltdown.

[–]Captainnuzzles 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This would be illegal in the US where the state is required to turn over materially exculpatory evidence to the defense. This is called the Brady rule.

[–]FlagrantWrongsDotCom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This type of stuff has occurred practically in the US however also. Regardless of jurisdiction perverting the course of justice and actively ignoring credible and valid data/evidence is terrifying.

[–]DevilishRogue 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The police are too often the enemy of the law abiding. Incentives are needed to prevent them from framing innocent people instead of going after easy collars.

[–]M8753 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But

"Yesterday it was announced by Scotland Yard that officers would be abandoning the policy of automatically believing victims of rape.",

so that's good at least?

[–]Electroverted 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good, but not good enough.

No punishment = no apprehension to do this again.

[–]Electroverted 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This has gotta be, like, super duper illegal.

I guess if enough of them do it, no one goes to criminal court?

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