Oppression of women in 3rd world shitholes

2018-03-03T04:50:58+00:00

Thank you for this, those stats are sick. I live in another shithole country where feminism is becoming dominant and they are the ones doing stats of things that affect women negatively. All our numbers are really twisted, one just has to take a look around, ask people about it, and you realize things aren't that bad for them, they are pretty protected to be walking around almost naked and alone without being harassed, if things were so bad as they paint it they would never risk going out without a male or a burka.

6space6space6 · 2018-03-03T05:09:45+00:00

The only countries that treat women like shit, are countries that also treat men like shit. In Islam, men are stoned to death alongside women for doing nothing wrong, men are killed for doing drugs, men are killed for being gay, men are killed for leaving Islam. Women and men are opressed by men and women in Islamic countries, both male and female terrorists exist. Islam treats both men and women like slaves.

fengpi · 2018-03-03T04:40:48+00:00

I don't think the claim is that every poor country treats women badly; Serbia is not exactly Yemen or rural Bihar (Yugoslavia was one of the more prosperous parts of eastern Europe thanks to exports of Gastarbeiter and tourism; Communist ideology also put a heavy rhetorical emphasis on educating women and putting them to work). I think the point is that western society (whatever its flaws) tends to treat women better than most other societies do generally, though some specifics may differ, and that the analysis of western feminists is largely baseless and empty. To say that all non-western societies always treat women badly in every way is a sloppy over-generalization. Modern Mongolia (a country admired by no one) sends more women than men into higher education and Somali society has some important roles that women tend to fill (such as mediating inter-clan disputes); there can be positive aspects to being in places which are otherwise rough to live in. If you were to take a map and pick a random "shithole" (I don't like the term), you could probably also find a nice park or resort to have a drink in. I've been in good hotels located in countries where a lot of people are starving in shacks.

And countries that treat women badly also treat men badly as well, though perhaps in different ways.

The idea you're criticizing is a sloppy overgeneralization and you shouldn't take it seriously or be insulted by it.

theothermod · 2018-03-03T06:34:14+00:00

I've been warned by mods not to "spam" the sub with Global Gender Gap Index figures

You've posted these repeatedly to make a point. The UN Global Gender Gap Index is not a credible source. It is designed so as to show all instances where women's conditions are better than those of men as perfect equality - therefore it is incapable of acknowledging instances where men are behind.

ThePigmanAgain · 2018-03-03T10:02:56+00:00

Meh, when you're a man, even the First World countries are shit-holes!

Lethn · 2018-03-03T10:55:47+00:00

Serbia? You're using Serbia as an example of third world? That's ridiculous. When people think of third world shitholes they don't think of places like Serbia they think of places like Zimbabwe or Saudia Arabia. I know it certainly won't feel like that if conditions are miserable and I respect that but when we're talking about human rights and so on you guys are in absolute heaven compared to African and Middle Eastern countries.

Edit: I know it's technically not you saying this but the people who did the global gender gap index figures have some explaining to do.

Razorbladekandyfan · 2018-03-03T14:12:04+00:00

Thank you for this.

Incident-Pit · 2018-03-03T14:23:09+00:00

Serbia is a post second-world country, it can't be third world since it post dates the fall of Russian Communism.

Blutarg · 2018-03-03T15:27:47+00:00

life expectancy gap

Last time I checked, women have a longer life expectancy on average in every single country on Earth.

lynx_and_nutmeg · 2018-03-03T15:10:09+00:00

Serbia is not a "3rd world shithole"... When people talk about societies where women experience lots of actual issues, they're talking of rural regions of central Africa and such.

But, yeah, when you think of it it's quite a paradox that in countries where feminism isn't really a thing, women are actually doing better in many ways. I'm from an Eastern European country. Feminism in its current Western form (you know what I'm talking about) is literally nonexistent here. Yet some of the markers are the same as you mentioned here. I'm a woman and I can say that I experienced zero sexism in my country, unless you count some occasional "women can't drive" jokes. The interesting thing is, there are quite many "traditional" people here, the mainstream idea is that men and women do have differences, but individual people tend to be treated as individuals, not as representative of their sex. If you stop an average person on the street and ask them how they think men and women are different, they'd likely say something like "women are more nurturing" or "men are better at driving", but they wouldn't actually discriminate against a female driver or treat her differently, or discriminate against a man taking care of his kids or treat him differently (and, yeah, we don't have the "all men are potential pedophiles" paranoia here either). And there's no PC culture either. You could get a group of people and have them discuss sex differences, with nobody freaking out and suing anyone. I know that probably sounds like a different planet to most Americans here. Actually in high school we had a teacher who was super traditional in every way (also firm believer in dozens of conspiracy theories; definitely a rare outlier). Once a week we had to listen to him telling girls they shouldn't get a job but stay at home, birth children and obey their husbands, and telling guys they should go and sacrifice themselves fighting fo their country. I imagine if this happened in the US (or maybe Canada, UK or Sweden), he'd have lost his job long ago. Here, nobody gave a shit. Everyone just kept rolling eyes at each other and nobody took him seriously anyway, but the idea that anyone should get "triggered" and file a complaint would be utterly laughable.

I also hate this popular idea in the West that in countries like mine and yours there's more gender equality because women are forced to earn more money to get out of poverty. That's complete bullshit. In my country 40% of top managers are women. Those women didn't become top managers because they were fighting to get out of poverty, they became top managers because they were genuinely ambitious, and here ambition, confidence and assertiveness in women isn't punished. Same with CEOs (higher percent than in most of Europe), business owners, politicians, etc. And STEM as well. One area where I'd say we have true gender equality is that no area of intelligence is seen as gendered here. There's no stereotype that girls suck at math or that boys suck at reading (though it's often thought that boys are simply less interested in reading, but not that they're inherently worse at it). There are zero campaigns to get women into STEM, yet there are already plenty of women there. Thanks to schools constantly pushing the agenda that STEM is the future and that anyone who majors in anything else than STEM, law or medicine has zero hope in getting a job. But that message is never gendered.

One area where I'd say gender equality is sorely lacking is sexuality. There's just no way for a woman to have lots of casual sex and not be called a slut, while a man faces no such judgment. You can talk to a group of otherwise super progressive, liberal and pro-gender equality people, and still most of them would probably say something like "women who have lots of sex are sluts". And homophobia is huge too, so is racism. It's definitely not like there are no social issues here.

Also, since there's no feminism, domestic and sexual violence isn't taken nearly as seriously. If you get raped, you're not going to launch Twitter campaign or shout it off the rooftops, you can go to the police and hope for the best, but you're still very likely to suffer the "you asked for it because you were wearing a miniskirt". There's no culture of exalted victimhood so there's no status in making your rape story public. False rape accusations are barely a thing because you don't gain anything from making people believe you're a rape victim. It happens sometimes, but nowhere to the degree that it happens in the West. Same with domestic violence. It's usually frowned upon, but in many poor areas women are still taught to just put up with it. That said, male victims or domestic or sexual violence still have it even worse.

And men have it worse in many other areas, it's definitely safe to say men here have it worse in general. The longevity gap is one of the biggest in Europe, crime rates as well, and alcoholism, homelessness, smoking and poverty... (However, homelessness sex ratio is more equal than in most Western countries, and circumcision isn't a thing, so at least there's that). But the difference is that the government doesn't give a shit about men and women equally, most of the time. Men may have it worse in most areas and society doesn't give a fuck; women have it worse in some areas and society doesn't give a fuck either. There's just very little discussion of social issues. Social justice in general is not a trend. A lot of people do talk about it, of course, but it's not mainstream.

Title	Oppression of women in 3rd world shitholes
Author	PessimistIdealist
Upvotes	36
Comments	23
Date	March 3, 2018 4:26 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/81mnz4/oppression_of_women_in_3rd_world_shitholes/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/oppression-of-women-in-3rd-world-shitholes.905072 https://theredarchive.com/post/905072

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