I actually was intending to make this graphic with Denmark and Sweden blue, but in researching to make sure I didn't miss anyone it turns out that there are declarations from their national medical associations condemning the practice or nonbinding interpretations of more general code as to how it might apply if someone were to bring a case, but they apparently have not (yet) passed a law banning the practice outright.
Even in Finland it seems like the ban, while on the books, is substantially unenforced other than to hold people liable when there are significant complications that come to the attention of authorities.
I have made my own research a while ago and will simply repost my findings.
Before I start I do have to specify that I am not a biblical scholar, just an average dude being average. I might forgot or missed something, maybe misinterpreted something, because I haven't done this in a very long time, and honestly, it was lots of text to go through.
First of all, the commandment of circumcision was imposed upon Abraham in 1919 BC. It's often named Abrahamic covenant, because circumcision was the sign of the covenant made between God and Abraham:
Genesis 17 ^9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. ^10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. ^11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. ^12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. ^13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. ^14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Skipping a few centuries were are in the year 1513 BC. The Israelites received a body of laws from God, called Mosaic Law. Some facts:
1. Circumcision was mandatory under the Mosaic Law
Leviticus 12 ^1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, ^2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. ^3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
2. Circumcision was so important, that it was even allowed to be done on Sabbath
John 7 ^22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. ^23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
3. Israelites were not allowed to have interaction with Non-Israelites.
Deuteronomy 7 ^3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them [Non-Israelites]; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. ^4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
However, the Mosaic Law was just designated for a limited period of time. It was supposed to lead God-fearing Jews to Jesus Christ:
Galatians 3 ^23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. ^24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
With the foundation of the Christian congregation the Mosaic Law fulfilled its purpose:
Romans 10 ^4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 3 ^25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. ^26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
This was made clear by a vision Peter the Apostle received in the year 36 AD:
Acts 10 ^9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: ^10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, ^11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: ^12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. ^13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. ^14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. ^15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Amongst others under the Mosaic Law certain animals were considered unclean. One was not allowed to eat or sacrifice those animals, and anyone violating this would become unclean. Was does that tell us? One part of the Mosaic Law, a very important one, was no longer considered law by God.
Shorty after, Peter was visited by three men who asked him to come to Cornelius house, a God-fearing uncircumcised Gentile. The next day he went away with them and met Cornelius and others who gathered at Cornelius house, and preached about Jesus Christ. He declared following:
Acts 10 ^34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: ^35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. ^36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
[...]
^44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ^45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. ^46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, ^47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? ^48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
This is important because Peter realized that Gentiles, not subjected to the Mosaic Law, could become followers of Jesus Christ. (More evidence that the Mosaic Law was abolished, considering that it stated that Jews were not allowed to have contact) Cornelius and others were baptised that day and became the first uncircumcised non-Jews to be accepted into Christian congregation.
And here the fun begins. Certain people really did not like changes.
Acts 11 ^1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. ^2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, ^3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
The ones advocating circumcision were not happy about those events. Both opinions coexisted for a couple of years, until the dispute reached the climax in 49 AD when Jewish Christians started preaching that non-Jews had to be subjected to Mosaic Law and be circumcised:
Acts 15 ^1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. ^2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
This controversial question would inevitable split the fellowship and so Paul was sent to Jerusalem and asked the elders for a fundamental decision. Ultimately they decided that non-Jewish Christians did not had to be circumcised:
Acts 15 ^28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; ^29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
That cleared non-Jewish Christians, but what about Jewish Christians? Some continued circumcising their sons. Some went further and claimed that Jewish Christians had to submit to the law in order to be saved, which also would have included the banned contact between Jews and non-Jews. Paul the Apostle answered this very clearly in a letter to Jews and non-Jews in Rome:
Romans 2 ^25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. ^26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ^27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? ^28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: ^29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
What he said and wrote was indisputable but some Jewish Christians were still not able to understand that, and kept insisting that following the Mosaic Law was crucial. Paul the Apostle continued to hold against that:
Galatia, circa 50—52 AD:Galatians 5 ^1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. ^2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. ^3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. ^4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Corinth, circa 55 AD:1 Corinthians 7 ^18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. ^19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. ^20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
Philippi, circa 60-61 AD:Philippians 3 Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. ^2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh.
Crete, circa 61—64 AD:Titus 1 ^10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: ^11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Titus 3 ^9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. ^10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; ^11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
1 Timothy 1 ^3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, ^4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. ^5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: ^6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; ^7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
The key question about the Mosaic Law was once and for all answered in 70 AD when God allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed, including the temple and all records about the priesthood, which made it impossible to follow all parts of the Mosaic Law.
My conclusion: Circumcision in a biblical and a religious context was important for a long time and became mandatory by law at some point, but things changed over time and with the abolishment of the Mosaic Law it became obsolete.
Again, as I wrote in the beginning, I am not a biblical scholar. Take all of this with a grain of salt.
I could, but I see no point in giving people the false impression that progress has been made in banning genital mutilation simply because some children have their right to bodily integrity/autonomy protected.
Maybe most societies, especially in the West, value the right of the parents to choose what happens to their children over the government?
They don't. A limited subset of children are protected from genital mutilation, regardless of the desires of the parents, in much of the world. Unfortunately, many children remain unprotected, as the map is intended to convey.
Have you heard the phrase "your right to swing your fists ends where my nose begins"?
It's all well and good for parents to have significant rights in how they choose to raise their children. It's also well and good for those rights to end before it gets to permanently injuring children by having parts of the child's body amputated.
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[+]kowaifumanchu points [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link
I actually was intending to make this graphic with Denmark and Sweden blue, but in researching to make sure I didn't miss anyone it turns out that there are declarations from their national medical associations condemning the practice or nonbinding interpretations of more general code as to how it might apply if someone were to bring a case, but they apparently have not (yet) passed a law banning the practice outright.
Even in Finland it seems like the ban, while on the books, is substantially unenforced other than to hold people liable when there are significant complications that come to the attention of authorities.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points (12 children) | Copy Link
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[+]Brady_The points [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
I have made my own research a while ago and will simply repost my findings.
Before I start I do have to specify that I am not a biblical scholar, just an average dude being average. I might forgot or missed something, maybe misinterpreted something, because I haven't done this in a very long time, and honestly, it was lots of text to go through.
First of all, the commandment of circumcision was imposed upon Abraham in 1919 BC. It's often named Abrahamic covenant, because circumcision was the sign of the covenant made between God and Abraham:
Skipping a few centuries were are in the year 1513 BC. The Israelites received a body of laws from God, called Mosaic Law. Some facts:
1. Circumcision was mandatory under the Mosaic Law
2. Circumcision was so important, that it was even allowed to be done on Sabbath
3. Israelites were not allowed to have interaction with Non-Israelites.
However, the Mosaic Law was just designated for a limited period of time. It was supposed to lead God-fearing Jews to Jesus Christ:
With the foundation of the Christian congregation the Mosaic Law fulfilled its purpose:
This was made clear by a vision Peter the Apostle received in the year 36 AD:
Amongst others under the Mosaic Law certain animals were considered unclean. One was not allowed to eat or sacrifice those animals, and anyone violating this would become unclean. Was does that tell us? One part of the Mosaic Law, a very important one, was no longer considered law by God.
Shorty after, Peter was visited by three men who asked him to come to Cornelius house, a God-fearing uncircumcised Gentile. The next day he went away with them and met Cornelius and others who gathered at Cornelius house, and preached about Jesus Christ. He declared following:
This is important because Peter realized that Gentiles, not subjected to the Mosaic Law, could become followers of Jesus Christ. (More evidence that the Mosaic Law was abolished, considering that it stated that Jews were not allowed to have contact) Cornelius and others were baptised that day and became the first uncircumcised non-Jews to be accepted into Christian congregation.
And here the fun begins. Certain people really did not like changes.
The ones advocating circumcision were not happy about those events. Both opinions coexisted for a couple of years, until the dispute reached the climax in 49 AD when Jewish Christians started preaching that non-Jews had to be subjected to Mosaic Law and be circumcised:
This controversial question would inevitable split the fellowship and so Paul was sent to Jerusalem and asked the elders for a fundamental decision. Ultimately they decided that non-Jewish Christians did not had to be circumcised:
That cleared non-Jewish Christians, but what about Jewish Christians? Some continued circumcising their sons. Some went further and claimed that Jewish Christians had to submit to the law in order to be saved, which also would have included the banned contact between Jews and non-Jews. Paul the Apostle answered this very clearly in a letter to Jews and non-Jews in Rome:
What he said and wrote was indisputable but some Jewish Christians were still not able to understand that, and kept insisting that following the Mosaic Law was crucial. Paul the Apostle continued to hold against that:
1/2
[+]Brady_The points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
The key question about the Mosaic Law was once and for all answered in 70 AD when God allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed, including the temple and all records about the priesthood, which made it impossible to follow all parts of the Mosaic Law.
My conclusion: Circumcision in a biblical and a religious context was important for a long time and became mandatory by law at some point, but things changed over time and with the abolishment of the Mosaic Law it became obsolete.
Again, as I wrote in the beginning, I am not a biblical scholar. Take all of this with a grain of salt.
2/2
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Finland.
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[+]kowaifumanchu points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I could, but I see no point in giving people the false impression that progress has been made in banning genital mutilation simply because some children have their right to bodily integrity/autonomy protected.
[–]ISOanexplanation 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]nugymmer 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]kowaifumanchu points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
They don't. A limited subset of children are protected from genital mutilation, regardless of the desires of the parents, in much of the world. Unfortunately, many children remain unprotected, as the map is intended to convey.
[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]kowaifumanchu points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Have you heard the phrase "your right to swing your fists ends where my nose begins"?
It's all well and good for parents to have significant rights in how they choose to raise their children. It's also well and good for those rights to end before it gets to permanently injuring children by having parts of the child's body amputated.
[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link