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The Rainbow Railroad is helping gay men escape Chechen concentration camps. They need our help.

Ciceros_Assassin

April 27, 2017
354 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.rainbowrailroad.ca/
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Post Information
Title The Rainbow Railroad is helping gay men escape Chechen concentration camps. They need our help.
Author

Ciceros_Assassin

Upvotes 354
Comments 49
Date April 27, 2017 7:47 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/67y2la/the_rainbow_railroad_is_helping_gay_men_escape/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-rainbow-railroad-is-helping-gay-men-escape.923933
https://theredarchive.com/post/923933
Top posts by Ciceros_Assassin

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I'm Michael Murphy, an activist for LGBTQ refugees and board member of Rainbow Railroad. Ask me anything! • Xpost /r/MensLib

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Action Opportunity: The Rainbow Road is assisting gay men escape Chechen concentration camps. They need our help.

1 upvotes
April 27, 2017
/r/MensRights

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates should have a link to the /r/MensLib Resources for Men Guide in its sidebar and every men's issues advocate should know about it and be sharing it around

0 upvotes
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Comments

[–]Nomenimion 32 points33 points34 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for them. What's happening in Chechnya is terrible.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

More information: this specific fundraiser is detailed on the Facebook page, though because all donations through that link first have to go through FB's donation clearinghouse, your donation will reach the organization faster if you use the donate link on their website (US version).

https://www.facebook.com/donate/10154909067448889/10154916546913889/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/chechnya-ramzan-kadyrov-gay-men-eliminate-chechen-leader-detain-torture-end-may-2017-camps-russia-a7700711.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_concentration_camps_in_Chechnya

[–]Clatteringshaws 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (61 children) | Copy Link

From OP's comment history:

  • it's fucking irritating being forced to wait for some mouthbreather to pump my gas when I visit. Sure, it creates jobs - useless ones

  • "Male tears" mugs, for instance - I know that if I had made a space to talk about issues affecting people like me, and another group was constantly injecting themselves there and demanding we talk about them instead, I'd probably turn to humor to blow of some of that frustrated steam.

  • the reason the draft has been male-only is certainly a sexist one, but not sexist against men.

  • feminism isn't anti-men. Feminists are anti-MRM, which, I mean, so are we, frankly.

  • On this comment about the Gender gap in university admissions - "goes on for centuries in the other direction, that's just the way it is. Happens in less than a decade in this direction, and everybody loses their minds.": Cool, it, fellas. His frustration comes from a genuine place

  • On the University Of York cancelling International Mens Day celebrations: the opposition wasn't because it wasn't about women, it was because they believed it was MRM activism, which they oppose for good reasons (that we largely agree with)

  • all men have a stake in the issue of abuse by abusive men... "men have to stop abuse" in the leadership sense

  • the men-only draft originally [was] a result of prejudice against women for combat roles

  • On a sign posted at a school telling white men to 'step aside': Anyone interested in discussing if the sign actually isn't all that bad, if you look at it as a reasonably justifiable expression of anger about historical sidelining and not, like, an actual serious policy proposal? No?

  • male abuse victims being arrested... has happened... only because justice is often messy (And this coming from an attorney! SMH)

  • No school wants to expel a student who doesn't deserve it... while sometimes the outcomes are less just than we would like, for the most part, they all come from an honest and kind effort

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (56 children) | Copy Link

Dag, you did your homework. How do you even find 6-year-old comments? I thought the normal Reddit userpage only went back to 1000 comments or something like that.

[–]Terraneaux 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link

Oh man, it even links to one of my posts from before you banned me from there. You've gotten better at curating a subreddit since then.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

I'm genuinely impressed at the dedication. I couldn't even have told you I one time took a salty position on Oregon's silly-ass gas pumping situation, much less guessed that someone would dig it up almost seven years later.

[–]Terraneaux 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (52 children) | Copy Link

I think Oregon gas stations suck, too, but calling the attendant a 'mouth-breather' definitely comes off pretty classist, absent other context.

In any case, everyone does the "digging up comment history" thing and people are likely pretty invested in showing that you're arguing in bad faith, considering the context of your subreddit.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (51 children) | Copy Link

Well, I was seven years younger then. Anyway, we genuinely just wanted to share this around, because it's such an important men's issue. It's sad that MR subscribers constantly claim we never try to work with MR even while calling our motivations into question even on completely neutral and unarguably good action opportunities like this one.

[–]Terraneaux 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It might just be a matter of where you do your charity. If you live on the internet, organizing things on it makes sense; for my part, I do my charity work by volunteering in person.

The thing is, though, if someone's convinced you're a bad-faith actor, then any attempt to look like a good-faith actor is seen as a potential danger.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

That's a cute linguistic thing you just did, there, but I'd be more inclined to think the person with the time to go through seven years of someone else's comment history to discredit a legitimate charity opportunity is the one with the maybe unhealthy internet habit.

[–]Clatteringshaws 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

the person with the time to go through seven years of someone else's comment history to discredit a legitimate charity opportunity is the one with the maybe unhealthy internet habit

Nope, there's no attempt to discredit the legitimate charity opportunity.

As for the 'healthiness' or otherwise of my 'internet habit', thanks for your concern, but you might want to a look at the things you are posting online before you criticise me, as I have indicated.

I'm not the one going around calling regular working-class guys 'mouth breathers', claiming the draft is sexist against women, trying to collectively blame men for abuse, or handwaving the prosecution of male DV victims or expulsion of innocent male students.

I don't really get this team-sports, zero-sum approach to these issues. It doesn't seem to be helping anything.

Ask yourself why I might take exception to the things you have said, and then maybe you will understand my attitude. Anyway, I don't wish to distract from the OP, so we can leave it there, if that's OK with you. Perhaps you might reflect on the comments you have made.

[–]Terraneaux 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There are probably scripts for that. I had the misfortune of knowing a guy who did that sort of thing professionally, digging up dirt for politicians to use against their opponents. To be honest, even with reddit's interface it probably just takes a few well-written searches.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It just seems like an unfortunate choice, when the substantive issue is so urgent and important. I don't really get this team-sports, zero-sum approach to these issues. It doesn't seem to be helping anything.

[–]Clatteringshaws 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

we genuinely just wanted to share this around, because it's such an important men's issue. It's sad that MR subscribers constantly claim we never try to work with MR even while calling our motivations into question even on completely neutral and unarguably good action opportunities like this one.

It seems you misunderstand; my comment is not directly related to the OP, but merely taking the opportunity to point out your posting history, given as you are a moderator for a feminist-friendly men's issues subreddit.

[–]CountVonVague 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Feminist Insistant" men's sub don't forget, men lib actively silences any comments that don't agree with their rhetoric and almost Always deflects agency and responsibility from ladies to dudes. CA made a long post recently concerning Family Divorce Courts that got passed around but failed to accurately detail why women became default primary custodians and hand waves away the fact that women Wanted and Do want to keep their young children with themselves during a divorce.

[–]Spoonwood -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link

Anyway, we genuinely just wanted to share this around, because it's such an important men's issue.

Gay men make up a small proportion of the male population. In terms of the proportion of men who have issues, NO, what you've referenced does not make for "such an important men's issue". That is, NO, it doesn't make for one of men's top issues in comparison to other issues.

It's sad that MR subscribers constantly claim we never try to work with MR...

You are NOT trying to address one of the issues that MR would rate as one of their most important issues.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link

You know, when I hear people say that MR doesn't give enough support to minority men, I just don't know what to tell them.

[–]URSUSAMERICAN 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As a gay man - fuck you, you disingenuous piece of shit.

You'll gladly ban gay men from menslib if they don't bend over backward to kiss the asses of your empowered womyn idols.

[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

Men already are a minority. Tell them that.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

I know this isn't necessarily a popular position here, but men as a class aren't exactly being rounded up and put in concentration camps like the gay men in Chechnya are.

[–]Spoonwood 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

You know, when I hear people say that MR doesn't give enough support to minority men, I just don't know what to tell them.

Tell them that the MAJORITY of men suffer from legal discrimination such as discrimination in protection with respect to their genitals.

Tell them that the majority of men don't get enough support.

And that such majorities of men include most of the members of minority groups.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

...is this an underwear joke.

[–]Dewey_Darl -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Just to be clear, you're saying the MRM shouldn't spend time focusing on issues that don't directly affect a majority of men? Because I feel like the implications of that stance might not be tasteful to this community.

[–]Clatteringshaws 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://www.reddit.com/user/Ciceros_Assassin?sort=controversial

[–]CountVonVague 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't ya just adore the "if you disagree with the ML "approach" I'm going to delete your comment and ban the account" mentality?

[–]MagicTampon 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

,oV-+kT5:uS~hOCAy%$r0#

[–]thrway_1000 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://archive.is/Ttxdv

[–]Vandechoz 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

"WHO WE HELP"

We have been successful in helping [LGBT] individuals from the Caribbean, Africa and Middle East where we have local networks to support and validate cases.

At any given time, Rainbow Railroad is working on 30-50 open cases, confirming their details, putting them in touch with local resources and helping them identify safe routes for escape. As the situation worsens in many parts of the world, these numbers continue to grow.

Specific example:

Rainbow Railroad helped Makena escape to Europe in 2015

Makena is a young lesbian whose parents wanted to “fix her” by sending her "counselling", where she experienced corrective rape. She was ostracized and beaten by members of her community, and eventually forced to flee her family home because people in her village thought she was possessed by demons. She lived in hiding for a some time. Makena recently left Africa for a European country that protects the rights and lives of LGBTQ people.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin[S] 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The organization's scope is broader than just what's going on in Chechnya, but this fund drive is specifically about that issue:

Rainbow Railroad is desperately struggling to liberate gay and bisexual men from what can only be described as modern day Concentration Camps and provide them with asylum in Canada.

Please donate what you can which gives them the finances needed for legal services, airfare, and temporary housing. If you cannot donate then please share.

[–]omegaphallic 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If they are already in camps I don't know what these people can do for them, I hope the Canadian government puts pressure on them to stop.

[–]Vandechoz 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

my guess is they'd go in and help people who aren't in camps yet but don't have the resources to get somewhere safe

[–]omegaphallic 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that makes sense.

[–]omegaphallic 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I feel so bad for her, I wish my government would fund an international campaign in these countries educate people about this kind of thing. No one should go through that kind of horror.

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

This kind of genuine homophobia is religious or ideological fanaticism at it's very worse. These people don't regard homosexuals as human beings just like with any other form of fanaticism that's how they justify it not just to others but in their own heads that killing them is completely acceptable.

Unfortunately and I think this is the hard truth a lot of people have to face. When it comes to fanatics the only path for these people is either death or jail because they will gladly die for their beliefs and don't want to get along with the rest of humanity.

Thinking you can educate fanatics is naive and wishful thinking.

[–]ThirdTurnip 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Thinking you can educate fanatics is naive and wishful thinking.

It isn't. Anyone can change.

There have been quite a few high profile gay-bashing religious nuts who have realised the error of their ways and now speak publicly about this, in an effort to reach others.

The main problem is that in the kind of communities where this hatred is most prevalent, gay people are quite sensibly too scared to show themselves. So the object of hatred has no human face. It's not the perfectly innocent kid next door who you hate and revile. It's a faceless 'evil'.

Most of the people who hate are victims themselves - of a religion which treats people like livestock. One of the main reasons that they preach this lie is because they want to increase the size of their herd. It's the same deal with masturbation and condoms. Sex which can't produce more livestock doesn't increase their power or influence, so they preach that it's evil.

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

And what are you going to do about the hundreds more fanatics that will try to kill or attack you for even suggesting that homosexuals are human beings too? Give them a hug?

[–]ThirdTurnip 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Where exactly are these murderous fanatics?

Because in most civilised western democracies - which is where I'm assuming omega lives - assault and murder are typically not terribly easy to get away with.

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Could have fooled me given how common these attacks are becoming, just recently in the UK we've had the guy who killed people by using a car as a battering ram and then stabbed a police officer.

Then there was another guy who's been caught in black garb and carrying a bag of knives and then even more recently there was a police raid where they've confirmed they could have potentially stopped another one. Don't get me started on all the attempts going on in France while there have been fucking elections going on and they had to deploy 50,000 police in order to deal with the bloody problem.

How out of touch are you that you can say "Where exactly are these murderous fanatics?" I really want to fucking know how you can get these opinions unless you're deliberately choosing to ignore the evidence right in front of you.

Christ, it only took me five seconds to find out that there are immigrants in France's elections who are voting to keep Muslim migrants out because of how bloody violent the fanatical ones in particular are.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/20449

First of all, Christians, mainly from Lebanon, account for a significant number of the immigrants from Arab countries. They usually are opposed to Muslim immigration, because either their forefathers or they themselves left their Arab birthplaces in order to escape the persecution the Muslims meted out to Christians there. Examples that spring to mind are the Copts in Egypt and the Assyrians of Iraq and Syria.

Le Pen's second-in-line in the National Front party comes from a family of Lebanese immigrants and speaks openly against Muslim immigration. Le Pen resigned from her position as party head so as to free time for her presidential campaign and in order to become "everyone's president," making him the new party head – and making it probable that many Christian immigrants will vote for Le Pen.

I'm sure there's only just one or two of these fanatics though right? Nothing to worry about, people just getting picked off in the streets by people who believe in a violent religion shouldn't be something to be concerned about at all.

[–]ThirdTurnip 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Terrorists and garden variety religious gay-hate nuts are not the same thing.

Equating the two is not logical.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You're in denial.

[–]ThirdTurnip 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You've become the very thing you despise - a fanatic.

Your opponents can't be reasoned with and they're all murderous scum who have to be jailed or killed. Sounds exactly like the kind of thing they'd say, doesn't it?

Think about it - mainstream attitudes to homosexuality are vastly today in western nations compared to a couple of decades ago. It isn't because all the haters were jailed or killed.

[–]silva2323 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It takes education and time. The US was extremely anti-gay twenty years ago, and look how much we've changed.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, but you equally shouldn't be afraid of defending yourself against aggressive and violent people.

[–]omegaphallic 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you can at least try to put diplomatic pressure on Chetchnya, I'd rather not have Canada go through another war with idiotic religious fanatics.

[–]future_value 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you prove that this organization does not engage in anti-man activism?

[–]silva2323 -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

what are you talking about?

[–]Satansyngel 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

YES CAN'T WAIT FOR MORE MUSLIM INVADERS. FUCK OFF.

[–]Andpeggy123 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that's not nice

[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

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