False rape accusations are actually more common than the reported 2-8% and is actually closer to around 30-50%

dgaubatz313 · 2016-11-26T02:05:33+00:00

Four other good reads are http://www.datagoneodd.com/blog/2015/01/25/how-to-lie-and-mislead-with-rape-statistics-part-1/...

[–]feedmecarrots 32 points33 points34 points 9 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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[–]feedmecarrots 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Lawstuff1125 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

the article is talking about harassment, almost no one is successfully convicted of a rape accusation in general(less then 10% conviction rate). almost all rape claims are between two parties all ready know each other and rarley do they dispute the fact that the sex occured, usually it is an argument about the consent for the act which overwhelming juries, judges and lawyers belive the man more then the women in discusions of consent which is why most claims are not investigated by the police, most cases investigated are not prosecuted, and most prosecutions will result in aquital.

the aquital does not by and of itself make the rape not have happened since it really is a manner of consent and perspective once it can no longer be proven- this btw isnt me trying to be sjw, its the fact of our current definition of the act with laws as they are which is why we have very low conviction rates

i believe if you worked with police or lawyers as long as i have you would see how currently we simply do not a system of laws that function for rape accusation- we have no way to investigate them properly and no way to prosecute them properly.

for every person who talks about there life being ruined by an accusation i have met men accused of rape(some i have defended) where nothing happened to them, no firing, no scandal nothing because no one in their social circles cared about it.

i can tell you this- there is nearly a 100% aquital correlation between being able to prove that you had a positive text conversation after a sex act and a rape accusation so to be safe just text girls you have sex with about how great it was to have them over, if they text you a smile face save the text, you will not go to jail.

[–]feedmecarrots 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin0 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[+]GaffnyMcGuckin 9 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

I got censored and banned on feminist subreddits for saying things that though true, they didn't like. Let the counter-arguments be made. They can be refuted. Don't be like the feminist. To achieve progress the debate needs to take place.

[–]feedmecarrots 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]GaffnyMcGuckin 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It seems like a cult to me.

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[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

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[+]asdfman2000 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure that's the point of the account. While it's possible he actually believes that shit, it's more likely it's a false flag posting by a feminist/SJW who will then link to the post on his/her blog to show how evil and misogynistic we all are. They've been doing this exact same thing for years.

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[–]GaffnyMcGuckin2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Its not all women. Only 20% of women is the US, around 10% in UK identify as feminist. Even a majority of women understand that there is something askew in the personalities of ardent feminist and don't want to be associated with the movement. What most women don't understand is that the modern feminist movement has a dearth of substantive issues to make a fuss about. If you go to NOW's website and click on issues there isn't a whole lot there. And, of what is there about a third of it doesn't strictly apply to the category women, rather it is the standard social justice fare. Even the issues listed are somewhat disputable or resolved. Modern society is riven with policy entrepreneurs, trying to make a living off of issues and fomenting political coalitions. That is what the higher level of Feminism is , in my view. And, every movement has masses of dupes.

[+]GaffnyMcGuckin 9 years ago* [recovered] (35 children) | Copy Link

Linda Fairstein, the greatest sex crimes prosecutor of all time said false rape accusations where 50% of reports, then lied claiming she never said it. Across Western civilization convictions in terms of reports is in the single digits, to which the rape culture advocates insinuate a giant conspiracy against women existent in every western country. Everyone is out to get them and rape them, according to these advocates. They are rather animated about the "rape culture" we all inhabit. If you want to read all about it click on my username and read my submissions. Actually the police from all over Western civilization say a vast majority of rape complainants are false. Some will say as high as 90% are false but only sometimes and usually if you promise not to quote them. The police are afraid of the the rape culture lobby. Everyone understands that at least 95%, if not all of student's accusations against their teachers are false, but the feminist won't say a word about it because they know teacher's unions are too strong and will push such insinuations right back in feminist faces. Rape culture is pure bunk.

[–]Lawstuff1125 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

i think it is important to make the distinction between a withdrawn complaint, a filed complaint that the police investigated and the prosecution choose not try, and a false claim made with malice of fore thought.

as i have written about rape many times, most rape accusations are from two people who know each other where there is a dispute about the consent granted in the sex act. this can come from many issues- 1) a spontaneous act of violence occurs durring the sex, 2) an additional partner who was not agreed to enters the sex act 3) a sex act occurs with out consent(usually anal sex)

understanding that virtually all claims come from this area comes why people get confused by "false accusation" concept. if a woman engages with a man consensual, then is forced either with violence threat of violence or simply they act itself being forced upon them(like anal sex) and then she files a rape claim at the police. the investigation meets with the man and he does not deny the anal sex occured he said it is consensual, the police look at phones and ect.. for the next week. during this period the woman meeting with friends and a counselor decide that the scale of this is to much and withdraws the complaint- now, remember, the anal sex did happen, she believes she did not consent but the act occured and the accused also admited that the act occured. so even though she withdrew her criminal complaint she would not be guilty of a false accusation since in this scenario(which is very very common) she did not lie about any facts and did not seem(at least in my what if) to have anything to gain from this complaint. most "false accusations" are like this one, there was a complaint and it is briefly investigated, the scale of the investigation shocks the accuser, they back down, this isnt just rape this happens in crimes with clear victims-like theft and physcal assaults- they find out the scale of their own involvement and they back out.

i have personally only ever heard of "threats" of malice based rape accusations, a woman says she will cry rape against a boss, an ex, ect but i have never seen it really happen. though it is common to have sudden non prosecuted rape allegations from the past float up in divorce court(these are disregard fast, usually with a longer they where married and longer ago the less i care rule)

most men will never be accused of rape, most men accused of rape will not be found guilty.

[+]GaffnyMcGuckin 9 years ago* [recovered] (32 children) | Copy Link

There might be a difference between a truly false claim versus a withdrawn claim or not. If the complainant doesn't cooperate with the investigation, the investigation stops, and the suspect in relieved of jeopardy, it is often never determined a true or false claim.

As for false claims from malice, there are lists of reasons (derived via research) why women make false claims, and there is evidence that women resort to false accusations frequently out of malice. Once you utter the word to the police about something that isn't true, that is a false claim.

Go look at attrition studies. Of reports that are actually recorded, the percentage of convictions are in the single digits. Of course some reports aren't even recorded, but that just another manifestation how out of hand the problem is. To gain a further appreciation of the matter read my submissions under my username. Women often make false claims and do follow through on them. In the attrition studies, you'll find, in cases which proceed to some point of adjudication, allegations are found false all the way through the process, some after charges are filed. There is abundant evidence of this. For instance in a few decades, reports in England and Wales increased 700% but convictions haven't doubled. Before only 25% of complaints garnered convictions, now it is only around 5%, less than 4% in Scotland. If you never seen a false report of rape made to police, you live in a very circumscribed world.

[–]Lawstuff1125 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

citation needed on claims that are proven false based on evidence and not a withdrawal of claim, i am familiar with claims based using social media and ect that leads to arrest but not to prosecution.

also you again bring up complaint numbers based in england where i have said many times a convition for rape is nearly a legal impossibilty due to the way their intoxication defense works, virtually no one will ever go to jail for a rape accusation in nearly any context.

i have personally in my experience never seen a woman make a claim of rape against a man that she did not have a sexual relationship with, that would be to me false accusation of rape because no fact of the claim could be true since no sex occurred ever.

rape accusations are rare, rape accusations that result in an investigation are rare and prosecutions virtually never happen.

[+]GaffnyMcGuckin 9 years ago* [recovered] (30 children) | Copy Link

Google +rape+attrition+study. you should get a number of different results. I have reviewed scores (attrition studies) of them, and you should be able to find any number of them. "a Gap or a Chasm" is one that went from report to all case outcomes. Others only follow cases through to actual charges. These studies track sequences of rapes reports at some jurisdiction during some period of time. The startling thing about them is the uniformity of results. All show convictions as percentage of reports in the single digits. You will also notice that some complaints that proceed through the stages of an adjudication, some even with charges filed, then dropped because it turned out the complaint was false. As for the reasons for false claims there are are any number of results derived empirically from proven false allegations, and usually the reasons are nearly the same ie. revenge, alibi, ect. As for stranger rapes, the studies show that these types of rapes as a percentage of all reports usually range from 10% to 25%, while the rest of the reports involve a suspect the complainant knew prior to the offense, whether romantic interest or not. As most of these studies are done by members of the rape culture lobby, rarely do they contrast stranger rapes with false rapes or convicted rapes, but police always say that stranger rape is very rare, even at time being more explicit saying thing like "less than 1%" of rape or "more or less unheard of" not the 10% to 25% shown by the studies, or the percentages often avowed by advocates that claim they are anywhere from 6% to 35% of rapes. A few decades ago, advocates use to say stranger rapes were 50% of rapes.

[–]Lawstuff1125 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[+]GaffnyMcGuckin 9 years ago* [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link

You suspect I might be lying.

Generally, that will always be an astute question; always has been, and, disconcertingly, probably always will be.

Actually, and I am sure you understand this, it is one of three general possibilities; combinations of any these three eliciting even more possibilities.

Generally, each side of a debate, at a foundational level, is asserting the opposition is stupid, ignorant, lying, or some combination of any of the three.

In our present debate, you jumped right to the possibility I might be lying.

It is actually partially my fault you immediately considered this possibility, for I previously didn't take the time to fully document my assertions.

In order to make up for my past omission, might I direct you to one of my previous postings. Link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/58cjkm/white_women_crying_rape_often_accuse_black_men/

Right at the top of this posting is 3 of the so-called "attrition reports" to which I referred.

They are but 3 of the hundreds that have been done, with now meta-studies of these attrition studies existent.

I assert these studies are some of the best evidence available regarding any alleged "rape-culture".

But, as you are aware, I could be lying about that.

Anyway, take a look at them, and search google for more, for as I said, hundreds now exist.

Responding to my assertion, you astutely raised the possibility I could be lying.

Might I suggest, since you were the first to point this out, you might be the best person to explore this question.

Also, I think you should then get back to us all about whether my assertions should be believed at face-value, or merely pawned off as falsities promulgated by a lying liar.

Short of that, when discussing serious matters, might I suggest you desist from the banal ploy of suggesting claims could be lies. Everyone else has always considers that, and gets onto the gist of the argument. Are you ignorant of that? Just asking.

Actually I don't think any of us will hear from you about any of this, but we all now know you are prone to impulsive insipid banalities.

[–]Lawstuff1125 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

i am not sugesting the claims are lies, i am sugesting that what you are citing is not what you are describing, you are citing a racial motivation to deny consensual sex, that is a very specific claim and i am not refuting it(however you also are not citing a study your citing a reddit chain)

i am stating very simply- nearly all rape accusations are based of three basic sexual situations between to people who are (usually) previously associated or have previously had sex

1- a spontaneous act of violence occurs during consensual sex

2- a third party(typically male) is introduced to the consensual sex with out the consent of both partners

3- a change occurs during the sex act that was not consented (typically forced anal sex)

these three situations make up virtually all sex crime claims

4- less common, a partner blacks out entirely and sexual assault occurs( this is less common to acutally result in a claim though it is very popular to discus- you usually see a claim if the accuser wakes up in a street or alley or basically anywhere except a bed after a sex act)

i dont think you know anything about rape, its investigative process or the way in which cases are prosecuted. i have been personally involved in dozens of sex crime prosecutions(for the defense), its a situation i deal with a lot. the way you describe rape claims and how they are prosecuted simply is false

rape is a complicated crime and it typically devolves into he said she said, and in virtually all of those situations the man will win because consent is very easy to claim and difficult to disprove without other factors(waking up in an alley, a witness to the crime, ect)

if you feel better believing that any and all consensual sex encounters you engage in can become a spontaneous rape accusation or that litterally at any moment women you have never met will accuse you of rape for no reason that is your choice, but evidence simply does not exist to support that claim

all the social justice nonsense comes from the fact that at this moment in time in most western country rape is nearly impossible to prosecute

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22300360 this is talking about project saphire, it cost billions of dollars in the uk and has failed to figure out even basic investigation methods for reviewing claims of assault, let alone moving on to prosecution- thats real, in real life police have to figure out how to investigate sex crimes and it is very very difficult.

you can say i reply with insipid banalities. i reply with facts based off of working with people actually accused of rape.

have sex with people you know(just a good rule in general to avoid a lot of problems), dont have sex with unconscious people , dont invite your friend from the team to have sex with your gf with you with out asking her, dont force anal sex with out asking and dont beat up your partner during sex- there you will never ever be accused of rape!

[+]GaffnyMcGuckin 9 years ago [recovered] (25 children) | Copy Link

Leaving aside for the moment what I understand or don't, I think, along the predominate vectors, we agree on some crucial points.

1.) If you look at the three studies linked, and I haven't check those studies on this particular point, but coinciding with all other similar studies, the proportion of "stranger rapes" of any sample is commonly between 10% to 25%. I think we both agree nearly all of these "stranger rapes" are false, and agree that "stranger rape" is "less that 1% of rape", or "more or less unheard of", or "incredibly rare".

2.) So, discarding nearly every stranger rape as a false complaint, your contention that the most all complaints which are germane to any discussion of the phenomenon are "acquaintance rapes", appears accurate.

3.) Also your contention that these rapes are difficult to prosecute is also borne out by the statistics. Before the "rape culture" innovation it was commonly believed that most rape complaints were false, and only 25% of reports resulted in any significant adjudication. Since then reports have exponentially increased, and now only a small percentage of complaints to law enforcement result in any substantive judicial action (around 3% to 6%)

So I think we are in absolute accordance, at least, on these points. Perhaps we disagree on a more general level. I have inculcated the opinions of others, like yourself, who are experienced on-the-ground clinicians regarding the adjudication of criminal sexual offense complaints. Their opinion is in excess of 90% to 95% of all reports are false. Are you in accord with these estimates?

[–]Lawstuff1125 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

i disagree with your context that difficult to prosecute makes the claim false, we have a system for determining legitimately false claims, but since as i have said nearly all rape claims are rape based off of an initially consensual act it is incredibly difficult to prosecute.

i think rape culture and social shaming has emerged because there is such a major inability currently to prosecute and investigate sex crimes in a method that works

i actually read the three studies you linked to and i believe that the contention they put forward that 25% of claims are from stranger assualt is false in the studies, many other studies support that claim and stranger rape has not and continues to not be a major issue in sex crimes, its very rare and easy to prosecute and investigate, its also very easy to make a defense against since if you have an alibi the investigation ends almost immediately. from my experience most stranger rape accusations are based on issues of drugs and intoxication where the two parties where highly intoxicated and then leads to probably an initially consensual sex act but could devolve in the issues i laid out earlier( a lot of stranger rape claims are based on the spontaneous violent act issue which is a shockingly common issue).

the idea that 95% are completely false is just not true, from my experience most women making a claim of assault are likely as confused about the way consent laws work and what they have and have not consented to in the sex act- that confusion does not make their claim false, thats why we have investigations to see if the rape occurred under law- not just whether the sex has happened.

if you look up the recent sex assault crisis in germany there is a huge issue that germany currently does not actully have sexual assualt as a crime in the way most modern states would understand it- in germany there is a requirement for there to be physical proof of the assualt and that there be demonstrable proof of a struggle by the victim to escape and resist the attack PHYSICALLY not just verbally. this has led to a situation where there are women being assualted ON TAPE saying STOP RAPING ME and they can not prosecute because the women where unable to sufficiently show a lasting level of physical harm on their bodys after the assualt- was their inabilty to meet the burden of physical evidence in those cases proof that they had consented and that no attack had occured? i think no its not.

i belive most claims of sex assault are based on non-fact disputed encounter, whether that encounter can or can not be proven to meet the standards of a consensual sex act is for police and the courts to decide and in the vast majority of cases there will not be anything done against the accused.

i think clearer education about what is or is not consent, given to both men and women and also encouraging both men and women to view sex less combative would be the best thing. in my experience the basic ways we teach men and women about consent is broken- it teaches men how to "avoid being accused of rape" and women "how to accuse rape" instead of trying to educate about what rape actually is and how the easiest solution to preventing sex assault is communication between people.

the amount of times i have literally met men and women who did not understand even the basic concepts of how consent works, that you can consent to some things but not other things and not liking an experience does not remove the consent, or when you by law dont have the ability to consent, or how violence during sex is not something that is consented to but does not inherently make the sex act rape depending on how it occurs and wether the partner is comfortable

when i describe this i always get- why does a woman get to control a lot of the aspects of the consent- consent by its very concept is about gaining permission to perform an act and by that standard is a subjective standard, it is governed by different rules of reasonableness then other standards, since in hetero sex it is virtually impossible for a woman to physically rape a man with out the use of a physical instrument it is inherently biased.

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

While I appreciate your inclination to engage in a discussion, I think we are talking past each other.

1.) the % of stranger rapes reported in the 3 studies at the other posting I mentioned was >20%, 32% and 8%, the last one based on a sample of police files the first 2 bases on sequential reports at the relevant jurisdictions. As you mentioned you understand that true stranger rapes are incredibly rare. The last study, based upon a sampling probably had the more ridiculous stranger reports filtered out. The percent of stranger rapes the feminist have asserted have progressively decreased over time from 50% to 35% to 25% to 15% to 10%. Now some will admit to a number as low as 6 or 7% but I haven't notice any of them going lower. Feminist want to keep the fear alive, it helps them achieve salience. Ex post facto, given all of the above, nearly all stranger rape reports are bullshit and back of the envelope after looking 50 studies similar to the ones above around 10 to 25 % of rape reports are stranger rape reports.

2.) I think I remember you mentioning you work as or with defense lawyers. If that's the case, most all of rapes reported you'll never see. Again going to the studies, and also the word of Law Enforcement people who will tell you the truth, most reports don't result in any arrest or charges. If I remember correctly, the first study, the one with greater than 20% stranger rapes, something like <15% of all the cases were presented to prosecutors for advise and charging decisions. That's the one were 75% of the cases were either declared false or the complainant refused to cooperate after registering the complaint, necessitating the production of a police incident report.

Any encompassing research on the whole matter leads the to the conclusion that a high % of rape complaints to police are false. And, I've seen, based upon the aforementioned "attrition studies" a certain % that get somewhere along in the adjudication process only to be declared false. Usually the false complainant is rarely prosecuted. Also based upon innumerable press reports over the last few decades, I also noticed complaints getting all the way through the court process, with guys serving time, only to be determine later to be false.

Where you going wrong is thinking that just because something isn't adjudicated false doesn't make it true are even questionable. See my other posts. You'll find that none other than "America's Top Sex Crimes Expert", Linda Fairstein, once said that half of rape complaints "simply didn't happen"

From your position you are getting a slanted view of reality. You best should study these matters further before you start making definitive statements about reality.

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

as i have said very clearly, i have read the attrition studies and find there overal methods shoddy and conclusions not in line with actual police work.

i work with police daily and they very much believe that sexual assault is a common issue and that most of the claims they receive are valid, however there is a total difference between being able to move from an investigation and to press charges.

i belive you have the slanted view since you presume that an inability to seek indictment means that no sexual assualt occured when it is more likely that there is a congruence of facts and a dispute on the consent issue

many states and citys have different definitions of consent, and many acts of sexual assault and rape may not constitute a prosection, that does not mean factually the sex did not occur and that the women was not made to do a sex act with out consent or a sex act was done to her without consent.

the problem you keep having is that you keep suggesting a malice of fore though with the complaint, that the purpose of the complaint was to create harm per se.

i have met linda fairstein, i worked with her on a panel about sex crimes, she does not belive that rape doesnt occur, she belives as i do that the system for investigating rape is broken. i am, and she is, familiar with that quote and it is not representative of her work, i would urge you to look at her actual legal work and the actual articles she has written in many law reviews.

as to your last point, i make statments of reality becuase i work in sex crimes, i actually have met the people you qoute, i help men and women accused of sex crimes, i work with the police. the way you think of sex crimes is not real, it does not exist. i feel like i am an astrounaut explaining that we landed on the moon

as a side point, the vase majority of feminist rape discussion is about rape between parites who know each other- it has been almost the entire focus of sex assault law for about 30 years. it used to be virtually impossible to prosecute a rape if the parties had admitted to having sex with each other at an earlier date consensualy, it has been the goal of most law officials to figure out how to prosecute and investigate these crimes.

i urge mra people to focus on genuine areas where men are discriminated agaisnt- health care policy, having gender be considered a protected class in hiring(its not for either gender), protection of homosexual men in sex crimes which are virtually never prosecuted, more equity in determining the custodial parent in child custody when all factors are equal

these are areas where there is currently real issues, the way rape is prosecuted, investigated and tried is currently broken and will remain broken untill very serious analyse of the current laws are conducted

i feel that almost all discusions of rape on mra is focused on getting away with rape or preventing accusations instead of understanding the crime itself

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Now you're just being totally ridiculous. The conviction rate as a percentage of reports to police is the same across western civilization; in the single digits.

Everyone understands, and no one refutes, not even the feminist, the percentage of false reports in students sexual accusations against teachers is >95% to perhaps nearly all. The feminist won't say a thing about this understanding because they know teacher's strong and powerful unions won't stand for their profession being falsely besmirched. The rape culture lobby knows if they apply the same treatment to teachers they do everywhere else, it'll just be successfully pushed back at them, undermining them, and bring everything they say into question.

As for your assertion regarding "attrition studies" they are is equally ridiculous, as there has been 100's completed over the past few decades, they all reach the same conclusions, and also match the results of official findings where know.

As for Fairstein, if you've read my previous post, it's obvious she is lying. (I'll post an image of the Penthouse article as soon as I figure out how to get a clear one on Imgur, but there are already pretty clear ones contained within the my post under my submissions under my username)

You are among the trees, therefore not high enough up to see the whole forest. Anyone who has examined the forest from this perspective understands what a crock the whole rape culture meme is. The feminist who have viewed it from this perspective, everywhere the same across western civilization, have a ready answer for these results. They posit a giant conspiracy that incorporates, all countries, jurisdictions and personalities against women. Is that believable??? Of course not!

You are a lawyer, so you understand that the person who brings the charge has the burden to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Short of that, from a legal perspective, there is no there there. Don't be misled by anecdotal evidence you may come across, any encompassing examination surely dictates one conclusion: women are often disingenuous in asserting sexual violation. That is evident to anyone with even half a brain, who has fully examined the matter.

The sum of what you've come across in your career apparently isn't sufficient to render a correct portrayal of the matter, so you should demur from any such assertions until you have the correct formulation. I think at this point, you are out there as having offered an opinion that doesn't withstand scrutiny, therefore you're dissembling, ignoring good and valid points I've presented, and repeating your talking points, and relying on the different tactics that one who is losing the debate and trying to save face.

In the end the truth is what matters. You need to get a better grip on reality, then concede the obvious. Women often simply lie about sexual violations for any number of reasons, and these complaints, absent good legal proof, don't amount to anything anyone should dwell on for long. That is the advice of western juridical philosophy.

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

ok, i will state this very clearly since your response is so all over i wasnt sure if it was even meant for me- the person making an accusation 100 % DOES NOT have the burden of proof, burden of proof is a legal term used in the prosecution of crimes. an accuser has the duty to describe the facts as they perceive them in an honest manner, it is the governent to which burdens of proof are expected.

example in no sex related issue- you a non-police officer belive your neighbor is holding a person in their home, you break in to the home and let the person out. in this case the evidence you find, the person and such things that kept them captive, is allowed to be given to the courts and used as evidence even though you broke the law to find the evidence. HOWEVER, if you where a police officer and broke into the house the evidence you find could not be used becuase it was found illegaly( this is called "fruit from the poison tree)

as to Fairstein, i consider her body of work outside of one PENTHOUSE article. I am sorry if you need to cling to a single statment and that makes you feel you know a person or the sum of their legal career, a career that spands 40 years working with hundreds of lawyers, but it is my opinion that the work she has actually done in real cases and the work she does in real symposiom that you are more then welcomed to attend is more true to her then a penthouse article

as to me not having a right to speak on rape law, i defend men accused of rape, i represent them when they have NO ONE, when they truly need help, but you on a reddit forum who has never had to fight with a judge about discovery, or investigate a bad interogation, or fight with verizon for access to deleted msgs- you know more about a real rape investigation then me bucause you read bad studies and are arguing against a giant fem conspiracy

your entire first paragraph response to me is the rantings of a mad man, i 1) have never discussed teachers, unions, or sexual assault claims against them as having anything to do with talking about law. also if you believe that children are not assualted by teachers then why the hell does mra bring up the disparity in sentencing between men and women offenders? should it not be the position what you suggest- that no child has ever been assaulted and that their claim of assualt is designed only to hurt the reputation of the teacher? is there a feminist cabal telling young girls an boys to attack these teachers? what have they to gain or to lose through that?

there is no rape culture lobby! as i have said before there are women and men who are frustrated with the way sex crimes are investigated and prosecuted, your citing of conviction rates IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DISCUSSING- currently it is virtually impossible to prosecute rape in most of the first world- look at the rape of 1400 german women on new years eve that has resulted in only 12 concvictions, the rapes ARE ON VIDEO, the courts have repeatedly said they are not prosecuting becuase the definition of rape in germany is so broken they cant, not that the women have lied- now if they are lieing in germany, why? is it to attack muslims? merkel? men in general? what have these women to gain from accusing migrant muslims of the rape? is it race based? if so why and how much?

you say words like burden of proof, or i must demur till i have the correct formulation, i have worked with heads of states, international tribunals on sex crimes and terrorism task forces about the sale and torture of women- are they all working for the never ending power of the feminist cabal? does this cabal ONLY care about white men and white women since it clearly has no power in the human traficing of muslim women and asian women.

the burden on a complaint has been an continues to be a lack of malice, i can say my car is stolen so long as i am not actually hiding the car, if i am factually wrong and the car was taken by a permitted driver with out my knowledge in most places this is not theft- the complaintant has not comited a crime by being wrong.

if at the end of the day you do not belive rape happens and that all complaints are made up that is your choice, and you can have that with the sandy hook truthers, holocaust deniers and others who belive in conspiracy.

i live in the real world, i have seen women be killed, seen the videos of their murders, seen videos of men raping women, seen videos of men raping little girls, seen video of men raping their mothers, their sisters, their daughters. fucking their family members on camera and murdering them, i have defended these men and many of them i have prevented from going to jail becuase i feel our criminal justice system is broken and that prison is wrong for most offenders even murderers and incest rapists- but you dont get to say the videos i have seen are fake, that women are not raped becuase you are convinced its all a conspiracy to punish white men in college.

the world is a dark, broken place full of crime and violence and you are not the arbiter of facts

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i know farstein personally for 10 years, she taught a clinic i studied sex crimes at, you have no idea of her work, of her actually legal scholarship or her contributions to real criminal investigations.

that you would reduce a legal expert of her status to a qoute from a porn magazine shows that you are clearly an idiot

i have said before and very clearly, i work with rapists and people accused of rape, men who have raped their children, their friends and thier own mothers. i deal with acutal crime in the real world.

i also worked with ben stein at a consortium at penn law, and i will be sure to contact him that he is being cited as proof that rape as a crime does not exist

can i ask you- in what context is rape a crime to you? when is a woman raped? what proof would be sufficient to you?

i have litteral videos of women being raped, live, many are availble on the internet

what is the standard for you or do you just beilve a woman can never not consent to rape?

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I am sure Morgenthau, like everyone, would be pleased if other people often made use of his quotes. This whole conversation began when you insinuated I might be lying. I have well answered all of your objections! So, now, what's good for the goose? If you are who you portray, saying you personally know Fairstein, Stein and Morgenthau. I'll await you actions, and report of those actions, after you've discussed with all three the import of what I have submitted in "black and white" regarding "America's Top Sex Crimes Expert" stating that half of rape reports are FALSE.

I must say, you form of argumentation is rather off-putting. First insinuating a lie. Then, when the assertion is proven accurate, resorting to telling the adversary to just shut-up, and coarsely so to boot.

I must say you appear to be someone rather inordinately sensitive to being corrected. But, in the end, you might redeem yourself by making good on your assertions. Apply the same vociferousness you apply in arguing with me to the challenge I have noted above.

Short of that, you've only shown yourself to be a blustering bloated fraud.

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED ANY OF MY OBJECTIONS

you are citing porno magazines and bad studies written by fake organizations and bloggers

none of the qoutes you are issuing are correct or representative of the people who made them or the context in which they where made

you have constantly mistated the legal terms for rape, the required basic understanding of what is required by an acusation, the basic standard of proof in a criminal investigation, you dont understand WHO perfoms the investigation and who performs the prosection and you dont understand the standard used in either!

i said very clearly you are a person who does not understand how the police work, how crime investigations work, how interviews with victims work, how evidence is aquired.

i know those people because I AM A LAWYER WHO WORKS IN SEX CRIME and have been doing it for 11 years, not hard to meet the people in the field you dullard! if you where so inclined you could meet two of them cause one is fucking dead and you insult is legacy every time you equate a man who was a hero against crime as a FUCKING RAPE APOLOGIST!

fairstein is 100% misquoted and that article is a redicouls joke in a fucking porno mag and i am tired of you using it as a god damn bible, read her books, read her articles, read her case work

NOW ON TO MY DIRECT QUESTION!

you stated that you require independent third party vitrifaction of a sexual assault to consider it a crime- if that is correct would you place that as your standard FOR ALL CRIME, if there is not an independent third party would you consider any accusation to for any crime to be without merrit in all cases

blackstone is a moral rule not an evidentiary rule you fucking child

i am asking you directly- what evidence would you consider sufficent for a rape prosection to go forward, if you cant present a level then just state that you dont belive there are situations where women are not consenting to sex- if that is your opinion just state it, its a tad extreme but it can be yours

i live in the real world, where crime actually happens and i actually work with real people in real courts- crime is real, you cant just wish it away, people kill, people rape, people steal- they need to be protected in court so there rights are protected because currently in america we have a broken prison system that needs real reform, the solution is not to pretend no one ever is raped.

would you be more comfortable with a sharia system(being serious) where if a man rapes a women she is put to death for causing it? if that was the penalty for rape would you be more or less likely to believe that women are raped knowing that the women and not the man would be punished?

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

1- you where not even aware morgenthou was dead, which makes you disgusting to me

2- since you did not respond to my direct question about if you even believe that rape CAN HAPPEN then my presumption is that you dont believe it can happen in any context- its a bold choice and i dont agree

i think you should take the time to read about actual police and actual lawyers and the actual work they do in the actual world, you can even go down to a police station and just talk to officers about how they work in your own city, mabye get involved with who runs your police and prosecution office and what their policy on sex crime is- you know, things that are real and might actually affect the way people work and discuss sex crimes, OR you can qoute porn mags from the 80's as a bubble to protect you from the work real police and real lawyers do to fight crime

you sound like an insane child and your disregard for the police and basic understanding of law makes me physically ill, you disgust me and i have helped men who have raped their own daughters to death go free but i find you more disgusting

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lawstuff11251 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dgaubatz3132 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apexbreed 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Police prosecute 0% of any crimes ever. Government prosecutors do, and they are, by and far, anti-male douchebags. Whether the prosecutor is male or female.

The prosecution rate for charges being filed based on law enforcement reporting only is very low actually. When law enforcement makes an arrest, the rate goes way up. When there is political pressure involved (i.e. media or feminist propaganda) that rate moves up to nearly 100%. Not exactly an objective selection method of prosecution.

One funny thing to add is that the prosecutor I used to work with made a good point (albeit a fucking terrible dose of reality) that he often doesn't file charges on women just based on the fact that they know a jury wouldn't find them guilty (12 mindless feminists and cucks don't exactly make an objective panel). Men, on the other hand, will be found guilty by juries with a much lower threshold of evidence.

[–]GaffnyMcGuckin1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AppaBearSoup 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GOINGforwardornot 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	False rape accusations are actually more common than the reported 2-8% and is actually closer to around 30-50%
Author	dgaubatz313
Upvotes	175
Comments	64
Date	November 26, 2016 2:05 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5ex6lm/false_rape_accusations_are_actually_more_common/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/false-rape-accusations-are-actually-more-common.936886 https://theredarchive.com/post/936886

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