My school had feminist propaganda. I wrote an article to get it taken down. (link in post.)

FFXIV_Machinist · 2016-05-17T13:52:40+00:00

Hey buddy, sorry, but im removing this temporarirally. while i completely agree with everything you are doing- you need to redact your name at the very least. publicising your name and location, and on the /r/Mensrights sub could potentially be dangerous for you. Relink to one with your name redacted and well be good, and i'll reinstate the post. Please dont think this a censorship effort or any attempt to silence you. As a young adult exposing yourself on the internet is a fairly risky thing, and to associate with a group on the recieving end of a metric ton of hate, can lead to some serious detriments to your life. please dont think i am discouraging you from being open about your affiliation, i'm just cautioning you from broadcasting it in such gross detail. Think of it like this- If i were an extreme feminist (we've all seen what happens when feminists go full on riot), and i wanted to make an example of you, i would know exactly who you were, and where to find you after reading this. in the future, try to retain some level of anonymity when posting on the internet (at least until you reach adulthood, and can properly arm and protect your person)

EDIT: Thanks for the Fix, and good luck young padawan

CptRageMoar · 2016-05-17T14:27:47+00:00

Yo, proud of you little bro. It's crazy to me seeing what a strong leader you are in the school community and knowing how much still lies before you. Keep up the good work. Excellent method of stopping the spread of misinformation. If this letter results in action and people know you sent it, you might face blowback from the group(s) that put these up, but they're in the wrong for pushing an agenda that manipulates the data. The only reason people getting away with BS is because the vast majority of the public doesn't take the time to do their due diligence before forming an opinion. We live in a country that is spoon-fed information because listening to a bunch of talking heads on the news is easier than doing research and actually forming a factually opinion. But you're doing the right thing, and this gives me hope. Love you bro.

Imnotmrabut · 2016-05-17T15:50:06+00:00

Nicely done.

A few points and pointers.

It seems that the girls who have put this display together are suffering "Confirmation Bias". They only see things that support their views and beliefs. Their actions can also be seen as “White Hat Bias” - “bias leading to distortion of information in the service of what might be perceived to be righteous ends.”.

A number of the messages are "Thought-terminating Clichés".

"The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis."

.... in Lionel Trilling's phrase "the language of nonthought".

Robert Jay Lifton (1961). Thought reform and the psychology of totalism: a study of "brainwashing" in China. Norton. p. 429.

In George Orwell’s novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, the fictional constructed language Newspeak is designed to reduce language entirely to a set of thought-terminating clichés.

Most of the messages are assuming that the male is heterosexual and the female also. That is Sexism, because to say "it is socially acceptable and expected for men to touch women at a club or bar, even if the women don't want to be touched" is to imply that all men are attracted to women and that non heterosexuals (gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, asexuals) simply don't exist.

Denying the sexuality of others because it is inconvenient to your views and biases is not acceptable.

The message that supposedly defines sexism indicates that "especially" women are subjected to sexism. This is not correct, given the number of sexist and entitled assumptions made against ,men by the authors of the messages.

The claim that women are more likely to suffer sexual a harassment compared to men is not correct. Research shows that women are sexually harassing and aggressive as often as males. For example, as pointed out by The American Psychological Association:

"of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor"

“Sexual Coercion Context and Psychosocial Correlates Among Diverse Males,” Bryana H. French, PhD, Jasmine D. Tilghman, MEd, and Dominique A. Malebranche, BS, University of Missouri; Psychology of Men & Masculinity; online March, 2014. http://www.webcitation.org/6OZz5JiGj

The same issue of male victims and female aggressors has been found in other studies in Canada and the United Kingdom.

Overall the messages written on the wall are stereotypical, sexist and badly informed. They are part of "The Woozle Effect", where repeated claims get accepted, even though they have no valid source. The 79 cents claim is a classic Woozle, and the more it's debunked the more it's believed by those who need it to be true (See Backfire Effect)

You give references at the end but it's not clear where they link to in the document. It's a good idea to use the first authors surname and the year in brackets eg (Surname 1953) so that what you have said can be checked - it's basic academic practice.

You end the letter pointing that the posters and the attitudes around them are not Good eduction and they do not promote a safe society. As someone who has been a teacher for my sins (They are many) I'd suggest you provide a Solution and not just Observation/Complaint.

There is a great resource called "The Debunking Handbook" and it shows not only how people get ideas wrong, but how they backfire when the error is shown to them It also shows to to debunk these errors in ways that can correct them.

Why not have the school run a project on Debunking Myths and Woozles so it not only corrects the errors but educates students on how to think and avoid errors.

Cheers and keep up the good work.

PS - expect to be called names and not have access to easy lays... even if your gay! GAY white knights are some of the worst! P¬))

omegaphallic · 2016-05-17T01:36:52+00:00

I don't support censoring opinions I don't agree with, I think a better approach you be to create counter arguement posters in the hopes of creating a meaningful debate.

cld8 · 2016-05-17T02:14:41+00:00

Who do you plan to send this letter to? Defining that might help us give better feedback.

atheist4thecause · 2016-05-17T11:27:25+00:00

Overall, pretty well done. There were a few grammar mistakes so you should always re-read what you wrote and not depend on spellcheck. For instance, early on it says "a women". That's being nitpicky, though, so lets get to the content.

Overall, I think you make great arguments (and while I didn't check the citations, it's nice that you added those). My biggest criticism would be that I think towards the end your message gets a little confusing. You are making an argument for dialogue back and forth, but you want to have posters removed or replaced. You have come to the conclusion that they are wrong, and that's what dialogue is for, but if you want the posters removed then aren't you preventing that dialogue? The only way I see dialogue being a good argument here is if they are banning you from putting up your own posters with conflicting information, but you didn't make that argument that I saw.

My question is what do you want to be the process for putting up information? Should anybody be able to put anything up? Should there be some sort of vetting process to allow posters only if the information is accurate and not misleading? Because for me, I'd say that anybody should be able to put anything up and then it's the dialogue that creates that allows people to come to correct conclusions, and really, any vetting process actually impedes dialogue, because then the vetter really becomes the decider of the narrative.

I hope these criticisms help. Like I said, I agree with a lot of what you said but I focused on what I disagree with because I think that's the only way I can help you improve your argument.

Sourdust2 · 2016-05-17T02:53:47+00:00

It reads a bit like a how a sopmore writes, very strong in sections and very weak in others.

1st, drop all the adjectives and or simplify your descriptors, you can prove yourself intelligent without sounds like a thesaurus.

2nd: Cut the mental theory in the wage gap arguments and cite hard numbers and industries. The STEM argument is solid but you also need to talk about what happens when you compare wages for the same job side by side.

As for your "Third Poster" point

" One flap asked “Is telling a girl she has a nice butt sexist?” you are discrediting yourself here. NO WORKPLACE will ever say that this statement is not sexist. Courts have ruled that it is and such statements create a hostile work environment.

To addres this poster "“Teachers asking boys to help move heavy objects in the classroom.”

Simply say "Choosing the right person for a physical job is important to avoid risking injury". The reality is that the school benefits from having young men in the class room to carry heavier objects. Do you really want your pregnant English teacher to walk across the hall to get help from another teacher to get something heavy off a shelf? Do you want that same teacher to endanger themselves attempting to get said heavy thing because no girl in the room is qualified to lift it? What about an elderly male/Female educator? Most of all do you want to risk osha violations and paying out workmans comp when it turns out that you forced a pergnant woman to lift something greater than 30 pounds off a shelf and put herself at medical risk.(OSHA) Now assuming a girl has the physical capabilities to help that is fine and all is well.

In your conclusion you are telling a high school principle what an high school education is, not only is that idiotic but it is also insulting.

This whole paper has strong points but the weak points make it look like you are a kid trying to prove how smart he is and doing a poor job of it.

However that is OK, this is why I will draft things 4-5 times before it is time to report them(cept Reddit comments of course lol a bit of a hypocrite considering how bad this post probably sounds.)

Mens-Advocate · 2016-05-17T08:22:44+00:00

Cliff, good for you - but expect feminist pushback even in school.

2016-05-17T15:58:28+00:00

It's a pretty good rebuttal. The core message that you should hammer and hammer on the earnings gap issue is that the gap exists, but can be almost completely attributed to factors other than discrimination. Your comment on median vs. mean is meaningless, to be honest, because neither method compares apples to apples, which is required for any "equal work for equal pay" legislation. No aggregate stat drills down to ensure that you're comparing two people at the same education/experience/position and tenure, in the same company, so neither media or mean are helpful. You should be comparing the lie of the aggregate stats to the truth of the direct, side by side comparison.

Secondly, asking boys or men to do the heavy lifting is still mostly sexism. Unless the object in question is so heavy that the women in attendance simply can't lift it, or would have a heavy risk of injury lifting it, there's no need to differentiate based on sex. The majority of objects men get asked to lift, or jobs that men get asked to do, can easily be done by women ... they just simply don't want to and would rather have the local man do it. Maybe two men lift that table, but four women do it. Being less efficient at something is not a get out of jail free card to avoid work.

DavidByron2 · 2016-05-17T16:03:22+00:00

The wage gap is reversed for young peoples wages. Since high school is for young people I think that's more relevant than what averages are going on for people in their 50s and 60s. In effect even if you accept the bogus statistic on it's face, it's men who are paid less not women when it comes to the younger generation. This is because far more women are going to college these days and people who go to college get paid more. This is in turn because of the complete failure of the school system to teach boys at the high school level.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/12/pf/gender-pay-gap/

Blutarg · 2016-05-17T20:21:59+00:00

Good for you!

I would take that "boys can do whatever they want" poster to the principal and say "if this is true, I want to misd school for a wek with no homework."

Imnotmrabut · 2016-05-18T10:29:11+00:00

"One of the best studies on the wage gap was released in 2009 by the U.S. Department of Labor. It examined more than 50 peer-reviewed papers and concluded that the 23-cent wage gap “may be almost entirely the result of individual choices being made by both male and female workers.” In the past, women’s groups have ignored or explained away such findings."

C Hoff-Sommers - Huff Po 11/04/2012 - Wage Gap Myth Exposed — By Feminists

The Report:

An Analysis of the Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women Final Report PREPARED FOR: U.S. Department of Labor Employment Standards Administration 200 Constitution Avenue N.W. Washington, DC 20210 January 12, 2009

"..raw wage gap continues to be used in misleading ways to advance public policy agendas without fully explaining the reasons behind the gap. The purpose of this report is to identify the reasons that explain the wage gap in order to more fully inform policymakers and the public."

There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap. Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 percent of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted gender wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent. These variables include:

A greater percentage of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than full-time work.

A greater percentage of women than men tend to leave the labor force for child birth, child care and elder care. Some of the wage gap is explained by the percentage of women who were not in the labor force during previous years, the age of women, and the number of children in the home.

Women, especially working mothers, tend to value “family friendly” workplace policies more than men. Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.

The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100331031109/http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

2016-05-19T16:16:04+00:00

I like how some of them have been obviously grabbed and crumpled up.

yummyluckycharms · 2016-05-17T18:47:31+00:00

When fighting an organization that officially supports feminism, a well known hate movement, its better to fight through less than official channels. Vandalize and tearing down the posters would accomplish the same thing without endangering your personal life.

Title	My school had feminist propaganda. I wrote an article to get it taken down. (link in post.)
Author	Thecliff133
Upvotes	58
Comments	51
Date	May 17, 2016 12:52 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4joc5a/my_school_had_feminist_propaganda_i_wrote_an/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/my-school-had-feminist-propaganda-i-wrote-an.949422 https://theredarchive.com/post/949422

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