Some insight would be cool?

Ultramegasaurus · 2015-04-04T07:56:38+00:00

Because institutional feminism does exactly nothing for men. Equality feminists, such as you, can only be found in internet discussions and comment sections, but not in influential groups, in the government or in college administrations.

ParanoidAgnostic · 2015-04-04T08:26:10+00:00

Unfortunately, the most visible feminists at the moment are either blatantly anti-male or promote a narrative of female victimhood which does not fit reality and is damaging to men.

Many of us feel justified in judging the entire movement by these people because, even if you do not agree with them, you give credibility to them by wearing the same label.

iainmf · 2015-04-04T09:12:36+00:00

Influential feminists have been giving feminism a bad name for a while now. They're doing things like saying that female criminals shouldn't have to go to prison, advocating for unequal child custody, pushing for laws that make it impossible for a man to defend a rape charge.

Then there are the loud, easily offended, feminists who hypocritically complain about stupid things like manspreading, and start #killallmen tags.

There's also ideas like 'the patriarchy', 'toxic masculinity' and 'rape culture' that feminists keep talking about, but have no solid definition and can't be proven.

So when you say you are a feminist, people think you are saying you are like these people.

If you want to avoid people stereotyping you you could try saying you are an equity feminist, or an egalitarian.

redditorriot · 2015-04-04T09:31:36+00:00

Men's Rights advocate/activist Karen Straughan on the musings of influential/instituationally-placed feminists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWoNhrY_fM

The feminist movement seeks special privileges for women and girls, often at the expense of men and boys, very rarely does anything to help men and boys (despite insisting feminism is about equality), and actively prevents men and boys from getting equal support to that they demand for women and girls by blocking funding, hijacking policy, censorship (which sometimes appears as violence and threatening behaviour). It also broadly demonizes all men and all boys.

Therefore, equality feminists like yourself are tainted (by those who are aware of the bigoted nature of feminism in action) by identifying as feminists.

If you insist on labels, check out egalitarianism.

theultimatespikodge · 2015-04-04T10:14:34+00:00

The issue you're having is calling yourself a feminist which has now been morphed into something horrible because of those that stand out and choose to make men a victim in their search for equal rights. From what i read about you you seem more of a general human rights 'activist' than anything else considering how important you think both genders are.

SRSLovesGawker · 2015-04-04T10:06:04+00:00

Based on your description, it's unclear if you actually are a feminist. For what it's worth though, a lot of people who think they are do so because they're told "if you believe in equality, you're a feminist".

Equality is a good thing, and most people are for equality, but wanting equality is not something exclusive to feminism. Secular humanists, for instance, want equality. So do MRAs, as a matter of fact. Equality is a foundational concept in most western nations constitutions and charters of rights. Equality was the rallying cry of the french revolution: Liberté, égalité, fraternité. So unless wanting equality also makes you a secular humanist, an MRA and a french revolutionary, clearly something more is required to be a feminist than just "wanting equality".

Equality is the normative goal of feminism, but isn't descriptive of what feminism actually is. So what differentiates a feminist from all these other things? That's actually a fairly complex question, because there's a million strains of feminism out there, but for the majority of the dominant strains, you must believe the following:

That society is presently unequal, with the inequality unfairly disadvantaging women
That this inequality is due to structural/institutional oppression
That the oppression is caused by something called "patriarchy" (or in some variants, "kyriarchy")
That for the inequality to be eliminated, "patriarchy" must be destroyed

If you disagree with any of the above points, it's doubtful you're a feminist. If you disagree with any two or more, you're almost certainly not, or at least not one recognizable as such by the mainstream of feminist thought.

So... I guess the first question is: are you actually a feminist, or simply a woman who thinks that people deserve equality of access and opportunity irrespective of biology?

Alzael · 2015-04-04T15:18:15+00:00

Short version:Feminism is a hate group. By associating as a member of that hate group you support their hate,even if you don't do so actively.You are a part of that group that the leaders point to when they say they have the support of millions.You count yourself among them and help to give them legitimacy.You also give the haters at the core a reasonable shield to hide behind.When criticized they point to people like you and say, "See, Feminism isn't like that!".

To put it another way,what if someone told you that they were a member of the KKK.They like black people,support racial equality, but they just think being a part of the klan is great.How would you react to them? I imagine your first question would be along the lines of "Why the hell would you want to be a Klan member?" Just as when you say that you're a feminist to people.

DougDante · 2015-04-04T09:10:50+00:00

Let's talk!

First of all, that's a beautiful sentiment.

I am just wondering why men's rights activists and the average person jump on me when I say I suppose Im a feminist?

Because they're wrong and in their mind they think you're saying you're a misandrist.

how am I infringing male rights? or how are the people who are getting angry with me wrong?

You probably aren't. Some misandrists who call themselves feminists are.

Here are a few action opportunities. You can respond to them if you like, but if you just read them, perhaps you can understand some of the reasons why we exist:

Action Opportunity: End the Appearance of Criminal Corruption at the Veterans Administration

Action Opportunity: Investigate the Appearance of Discrimination Against Boy and Man Domestic Violence Victims

Protect Boys Excluded from Educational Programs in Violation of Title IX

Action Opportunity: Protect Boys and Men who are Trafficked and Enslaved Fishermen and Workers

MRSPArchiver · 2015-04-04T07:47:52+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

rg57 · 2015-04-05T05:47:39+00:00

When you call yourself feminist, in an attempt to describe your gender egalitarianism, you are associating yourself with a sexist movement and a sexist theory.

Embrace your gender egalitarianism.

(And maybe reconsider the cat-calling, male, female, or otherwise... people get to speak their minds in public, even if you don't like it)

azazelcrowley · 2015-04-07T16:10:18+00:00

Here: (Read the whole, the relevance to you is final paragraph. Tone is a little hostile since it's copypasta. Please consider that tone neutral, no offence is meant.)

Because there's a sizable camp of people in the feminist movement actively hostile to discussion of mens issues and by extension hostile to men. It isn't a safe space for male victims of traumatic sexism. You've got two types of feminists, assholes who are sexist to men, and naive people trying to force men into contact with sexists who will ridicule and belittle their experiences.

If you care about mens issues, you can't be a feminist and still be taken seriously. At least, you can't be just a feminist. I'll concede it's viable to be a feminist/MRA.

Because of the aforementioned group, feminism is not the place to discuss mens issues, and attempts to make it so are sexist in and of themselves, since they carry an implication that men who would prefer not to have their experiences dismissed are somehow wrong or questionable for prefering to discuss mens issues outside of the feminist movement. (Instead of, oh, I don't know, sick of the feminist movement being a useless shitpile when it comes to mens issues, or sick of being constantly belittled and attacked when trying to discuss those issues, as much as half of you insist it's a movement for it.)

Suppose Christians kept insisting that the place for gay rights to be discussed was inside megachurches and refused to accept otherwise, and were hostile to the idea of gay rights being discussed elsewhere shutting down those discussions with the justification that the only legitimate discussion of gay rights was in megachurches. Or shut them down because gays are an abomination and don't deserve rights / gays aren't oppressed.

Either way, you'd have christians running around shutting down discussion of gay rights. And half of them insisting christianity doesn't oppress gays. Meanwhile ofcourse, preventing any and all progress on gay rights. That's how completely stupid feminism is.

If you're a feminist and an MRA, that's acceptable. If you're just a feminist who thinks feminism is the place for men too, you're a naive sexist. If you're a feminist who doesn't think men have issues of sexism, you're just a sexist.

There can't be a discussion of mens rights in the feminist movement. It always devolves into a shouting match, because of the aforementioned group. The group of feminists trying to force that to happen are just derailing mens rights to preserve their clubs legitimacy as an equality movement rather than a womens rights movement. They aren't doing it to help men. They're doing it in a self-serving manner. Rather than admit feminism is ill suited to it's purpose, they'd rather ignore reality and throw men under the bus to preserve their view of the movement and feel better about it. It's sexism, all around. Varying types, and some less blatant. Some less malicious. But still damaging, and still worthy of contempt.

Misandrist feminists shut down discussion inside the movement very successfully. Naive feminists shut down discussion outside of it by insisting over and over feminism is the place for the discussion and getting butthurt when people don't accept their insistence of that in the face of evidence otherwise. The existence of naive feminism is a blight on our society. Stop peddling that bullshit and let men discuss their gender issues how they want to discuss them.

Maybe if feminists asked "Why do people not want to discuss mens issues with us?" they might actually make some progress, instead of "Why don't those people realize we're the people to discuss mens issues with." You are not entitled to annexing other peoples social movements, especially when half of you are actively hostile to the demographic.

I'd say that you are probably being interperated as the Naive Feminist. Identifying as a feminist/MRA will likely clean up this issue, since it no longer carries the implication of you silencing external discussion of mens issues, or of trying to force people into contact with sexists. (Some of whom do things like flatly deny it's possible for men to be raped by women, or that domestic violence against men isn't as bad, etc. Bare in mind a lot of people who get into gender politics are victims of sexism. This is a big reason why there are way, way more women as feminists than men. The male ones get chased away by the overbearingly sexist atmosphere of the movement.) It also immediately distances you from feminists who insist sexism against men is non-existent.

aksuVOIMAMIES · 2015-04-04T09:08:16+00:00

People sometimes say, that there are different types of feminisms. But I assure you, there is only one.

mean0dean0 · 2015-04-04T17:58:47+00:00

When I found out 18 year old males have higher insurance premiums than 18 year old females where I live, I flipped my absolute shit.

I actually don't think this is necessarily a problem; maybe if someone in insurance can show me where the inequality is purely based on gender, that would be one thing, but as far as I can tell, 18 year old BOYS are about two years behind 18 year old GIRLS in physical and emotional development, due to the fact that girls hit puberty and mature faster than boys. It would make sense if we weren't taking this into account that the population group with lower impulse control and less emotional maturity being given driving privileges at the same time as another group would lead to more crashes, more damages that the insurance company would have to pay for. Am I wrong here?

I am just wondering why men's rights activists and the average person jump on me when I say I suppose Im a feminist?

Feminism as a movement has sort of run its course, and has devolved into a reactionary, almost conservative movement of Social Justice Warriors and puritanical malcontents who want to control others' thoughts and attitudes.

Was feminism necessary in the 1950s? Hell yes.

Was feminism necessary in the 1970s? Still yes.

Was feminism necessary in the 1990s? Well, sure, but with so many men incarcerated and our post-industrial society no longer offering jobs to men who are socially conditioned to be protector-providers, men were feeling left out.

Is feminism necessary in the 2010s? STILL YES, but mainly overseas where women still don't have equal rights and suffer alongside everyone else under violent and repressive regimes.

Is feminism necessary in the US in the 2010s? Of fucking course not. They're poisoning universities to become thought-crime zones of intolerance and echo-chamber thinking, rather than free-thought bastions of challenging and diverse points of view (because diversity isn't diverse if it only includes people we agree with!). Feminists are altering legislation at the highest levels of national and international government with organizations devoted exclusively to women's issues paid for by donations and taxpayer money to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. No women's issue in the US is worth that much money, not manspreading, not cat-calling, not even rape or slut-shaming. Rape already has a higher conviction rate than any other violent crime including murder; when you put away more rapists for longer sentences than murderers, you know you don't have a "rape culture."

At this point, feminism has simply become a bully in American culture, and the MRM is literally being ostracized from universities and public forums for daring to disagree with the bully. Feminism used to have meaning beyond just nagging and shaming and ostracization, but not in America. Not anymore.

Title	Some insight would be cool?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	9
Comments	60
Date	April 4, 2015 7:47 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/31egqw/some_insight_would_be_cool/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/some-insight-would-be-cool.984071 https://theredarchive.com/post/984071

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