Let our debate move forward.

Carmine_Wildebeest · 2014-06-15T07:46:10+00:00

So, Onto Men's Rights. Do Men get the shaft in divorce proceedings? Many Times, yet each situation is different, can't say men are being discriminated against, when men are irresponsible or flagrant in many cases.

So, because some men are "irresponsible or flagrant", that means that all men can't be discriminated against in divorce proceedings? I don't follow your logic.

TRPACC · 2014-06-15T08:59:27+00:00

Men do get molested, Men do get raped, Men do get objectified, but mainly it comes from other Men.

The stats say the most of it is being done by women.

Do Men get the shaft in divorce proceedings? Many Times, yet each situation is different, can't say men are being discriminated against, when men are irresponsible or flagrant in many cases.

The law in many cases and the legal system in general has a bias towards women.

Many gripes on here are about being objectified, infringed upon, discriminated against and all that. Men don't go through that nearly as much as women,

Not true at all, all the markers of hardship are dominated by men while those of well being are dominated by women. And women don't experience discrimination, they experience lots of discrimination in their favour, while me face many forms including legal which women don't experience at all.

Why did you just insert yourself here and presume to lecture us when you have no idea what you are talking about?

not_just_amwac · 2014-06-15T07:39:28+00:00

And you posted this in /r/feminism as well, right?

XorFish · 2014-06-15T07:40:28+00:00

Now, Claiming that men are objectified just the same is even worse. That is completely false.

Yea, and I landed on the moon with apollo 21.

Men do get molested, Men do get raped, Men do get objectified, but mainly it comes from other Men. When I look at my past, my mothers past, I know for sure, that there are very bad men out there who would do very bad things for selfish reasons.

So, Onto Men's Rights. Do Men get the shaft in divorce proceedings? Many Times, yet each situation is different, can't say men are being discriminated against, when men are irresponsible or flagrant in many cases.

Men deal with other men and pressures of society to perform and provide. The struggle is real, the struggle is real for women and men.

Stop trying to play blame games and find the solution

Oh the ironie in that last sentence...

XorFish · 2014-06-15T08:20:39+00:00

Women are not more likely to be victims of rape[1] or domestic violence[2]. Men are far more likely to be victims of homicide[3].

Furthermore, there are 30% more women than men who earn a bachelor's degree[4] for a master's degree it's even 50%[5]

[1]http://www.genderratic.com/p/836/manufacturing-female-victimhood-and-marginalizing-vulnerable-men/

[2]http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

[3]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf Table 1

[4]http://www.statista.com/statistics/185157/number-of-bachelor-degrees-by-gender-since-1950/

[5]http://www.statista.com/statistics/185160/number-of-masters-degrees-by-gender-since-1950/

guywithaccount · 2014-06-15T08:21:51+00:00

Your concern has been noted.

EndlessTosser · 2014-06-15T10:34:03+00:00

Men do get molested, Men do get raped, Men do get objectified, but mainly it comes from other Men.

Disregarding how wrong this statement is, the question must be asked; is victimization only valid if it comes from the opposite sex?

Do Men get the shaft in divorce proceedings? Many Times,

So you acknowledge that there is a distinct disadvantage to men in family court, that exists, but is unaccounted for statistically? Which you further justify by... claiming irresponsibility, on the part of (all) men (which again, you provide no stats for, instead demanding we accept your version of events, with nothing to back them up).

People are forgetting that Men and Women ALWAYS choose to procreate.

So the pill that specifically stops procreation was... a scientific anomaly? Is this a troll?

Men don't go through that nearly as much as women,

Or women justify it as not as bad (men 'always want it', the many articles about women backpedaling that drooling over naked men is somehow 'different' or 'better' than men enjoying naked women, female pedophilia being brushed off as the victim 'being lucky', etc.). But sure, women suffer worse because there might be some people who shout in the street, you know, pre-internet trolls.

Stop trying to play blame games and find the solution

So do you have any suggestions, or are you just complaining about how hard it is to be a woman? Because if that's your point, you can kindly fuck off. You have stated nothing of any value besides your opinion that men are irresponsible, and that our struggles are less.

And we don't need that. And we sure as hell don't need you coming along to tell us what rights are 'acceptable' to fight for, or what your opinion is on parenthood, or whether or not something that affects men (and only men) in a negative way is sexist (protip: Read a definition of sexism). We have our own opinions. We don't need yours. You want to post and find solutions? Find some articles (that you keep asking for in the comments, but not providing yourself) supporting your ideas, ones that have actual research in them, not polls asking Mr. and Mrs. Q Chucklefuck about their thoughts.

Mr. and Mrs. Q Chucklefuck don't know a goddamn thing. That's why their names are Mr. and Mrs. Q Chucklefuck.

So, until next time, Mr. or Mrs. Q Chucklefuck, good day.

NiceIce · 2014-06-15T11:45:10+00:00

The phrase 'a lot' is two words.

2014-06-15T19:01:00+00:00

"I've read alot [sic] of posts here and on feminism. I think it is really detrimental to our debate and discussions on issues of rights to be reading all this."

Well Mr. kbtokes, perhaps you have been toking too hard on the crack pipe. Feminism is the direct cause of most of the systemic anti-male discrimination that men face on a regular basis and we will never get anywhere if we take your stupid advice and bury our heads in the sand. It would be like ignoring the proverbial elephant in the room. If you can't stomach facing the enemy head on, then get the fuck out of here. We don't need cowardice in this movement.

"I think there is alot [sic] of misinformation on both sides that cause this."

The ones who are consistently ill-informed are the feminists, Mr cracktokes.

"There is also passionate upset individuals that are Feminists or MRAs, maybe for very good reasons."

Maybe the people who are feminists have no good reasons. Maybe they're just the gullible dupes who are easily swayed by the feminist brainwashing. Ever thought of that, Mr. Cracktoker?

"The dialogue in this sub-reddit is quite disturbing at times."

The truth is often disturbing, and can be especially so to ideologues who have their world-view crushed by a healthy dose of reality.

"I think people need to view the silver lining in all this. There is no reason to absolutely advocate, diminish, question, or degrade women being objectified, used, or anything worse."

And who is doing this, Mr crackhead? Maybe the problem here is your inability to accurately comprehend what you're reading. If your mind is in such a fog, put down the crack pipe and try reading these posts when the drugs wear off.

"Now, Claiming that men are objectified just the same is even worse. That is completely false."

Oh yeah? So pointing out that men have similar issues is false, according to you? Is that because it causes cognitive dissonance for you because it contradicts all the brainwashing you received in your Women's Studies class? Or is it because you are afraid people will now have to consider both sides of the debate and find that feminism is wrong?

"Men do get molested, Men do get raped, Men do get objectified, but mainly it comes from other Men."

Recent research contradicts this and indicates that almost as many men/boys are raped and molested by women as women are raped by men. And women not only objectify men by their looks and physique, but also by their wealth and social status. So please, Mr. Cracktoker, stop spreading your bogus feminist propaganda.

"When I look at my past, my mothers past, I know for sure, that there are very bad men out there who would do very bad things for selfish reasons. They are sick individuals, which is what we should be talking about."

And many of us know from first-hand experience that there are downright evil women out there who destroy innocent men's/boy's lives but get away with it because they're women. That's what we should really be talking about, Mr. Cracktoker, the unfair, sexist application of laws and favoritism of one group over another.

"We should not be talking about Mens Rights or Womens Rights. How to deal with sick individuals in our society being criminal."

Wrong, Mr. Dopetoker, this society desperately needs to be talking about systemic discrimination against men and fathers. The Men's Rights movement is critical today for the same reason the Suffrage movement was necessary a century ago. Human rights are being violated (men's) and it must stop.

"So, Onto Men's Rights. Do Men get the shaft in divorce proceedings? Many Times, yet each situation is different, can't say men are being discriminated against, when men are irresponsible or flagrant in many cases."

That's a load of crap, Mr. Dopetoker. Men and fathers have their rights routinely violated by judges for no reason other than the fact that they are born male. Women and mothers behave just as badly as men, yet their deeds are rarely punished.

"Does that make the woman automatically the best parent? No. It doesn't."

Exactly, Mr. Cracktoker, you finally got something right!

"Men aren't doing what they need to do to be productive enough. If you are productive enough to have a child, you better be ready for the responsibility."

What the hell does that even mean? Do you mean men need to pay child support? Many of us think child support is an immoral sanction to begin with. It amounts to financial slavery.

"Now, Is a Woman Productive enough to raise a child? I'd say Yes, a child needs both parents, [but] women are more prone to family life than career ambition."

You certainly have a lot of stupid opinions, don't you, Mr cracktoker? You say a child needs both parents but then imply that the mother would be a better caretaker because women are "more prone to family life than career ambition." This makes me think you're not a feminazi but a traditionalist. I'm sure many women would disagree with your assessment of women's innate abilities.

"On top of that, People are forgetting that Men and Women ALWAYS choose to procreate. It's the responsibility of both. If you want a child, you better find a way to take care of him/her."

What exactly do you mean by that, Mr dumbfuck? Do you mean that the woman gets sole custody of the children and it's the man's responsibility to pay child support? I'm not sure, so I won't try to infer anything. One thing that's clear in your little rant is an inability to clarify your position and your lack of specific details. You strike me as a either an ignorant troll trying to get some laughs, or an imbecile spouting off about things you don't understand.

"Many gripes on here are about being objectified, infringed upon, discriminated against and all that. Men don't go through that nearly as much as women, which is why there is a thing called feminism."

Wrong, Mr. Jackass. Just because you aren't aware of (or refuse to see) the severity of men's suffering doesn't mean women have it worse. Women definitely do not have a worse time of it than men, it's just that men's issues are often ignored, dismissed, or even ridiculed by society. So please, Mr shitforbrains, don't play favorites.

"Men deal with other men and pressures of society to perform and provide. The struggle is real, the struggle is real for women and men. Stop trying to play blame games and find the solution"

For the love of all that's decent, Mr cracktoker, have the integrity to frame the debate accurately before passing judgement. We are not blaming women, nor are we saying women's problems are trivial. We are placing blame precisely where it belongs, often feminism, sometimes social mores. We are also proposing workable solutions, like joint custody, but it is feminists who are shutting down all our efforts.

NateExMachina · 2014-06-16T18:08:46+00:00

The dialogue in this sub-reddit is quite disturbing at times. I think people need to view the silver lining in all this. There is no reason to absolutely advocate, diminish, question, or degrade women being objectified, used, or anything worse. Now, Claiming that men are objectified just the same is even worse. That is completely false.

Blah, blah, blah, no examples.

but mainly it comes from other Men

Who gives a shit? All men aren't criminals.

women are more prone to family life than career ambition

You probably just pissed off all the feminists lurking here and a lot of fathers too. That's a great father's day present for them.

Actually, I'm struggling to understand how anything you wrote was intended to "move things forward".

WomenAreAlwaysRigh · 2014-06-15T10:59:14+00:00

I upvoted but... are you drunk?

Title	Let our debate move forward.
Author	kbtokes
Upvotes	0
Comments	40
Date	June 15, 2014 7:27 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/286sq8/let_our_debate_move_forward/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/let-our-debate-move-forward.999211 https://theredarchive.com/post/999211

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