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Do you think standards are radicalizing for both genders?

August 18, 2022

Maybe I'm wrong because I was very young at the time, but I remember back in the 2000's and even in the early 2010's being in the 5'7 to 5'10 range was seen as a quite decent height for a man; I even remember if you were at the upper end of this range some people considered you tall and, no, they didn't say it in a pitiful or sarcastic way, it was a genuine thing, or at least it seemed that way to me. Now we know very well that for many women (and men) any dude below 6'0 is a midget; it doesn’t matter that the average height for a man is 5'9 and with it he is noticeably taller than vast majority of women.

I remember that I had contact with Red-Pill theory at the end of 2019, not so long ago. Back then, The Wall was somewhere in the 30's. A couple of years later the bar went down and she would hit The Wall just as she turned 30. In the last few weeks I’ve noticed it’s starting to be said that they hit The Wall when they turn 25. I've always been a bit amazed by this whole concept because many women in their 30's are still physically desirable and still look young to my eyes.

Saying a 26 year old girl is post-wall sounds me as surreal and absurd as saying a 5'10.5 man is short.

I get the impression that in recent years people have become radicalized on many issues and this is just another proof of that. There are no more nuances, spectrums or intermediate points: it's all or nothing, one side or the other.

If this trend continues, in a few years all men under 6'3 will be considered dwarfs and women will hit The Wall as soon as their teen years are over. We are going to have a lot of men feeling like hobbits when they clearly aren’t and we are going to have a lot of women feeling like grannies when they clearly aren’t.
Maybe it's already happening...

So, what do you think about this?

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Post Information
Title Do you think standards are radicalizing for both genders?
Author Purple-Heiss
Upvotes 4
Comments 23
Date August 18, 2022 6:09 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/do-you-think-standards-are-radicalizing-for-both.1139663
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/wrqh32/do_you_think_standards_are_radicalizing_for_both/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]alienamongnormiesBlackPill 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's mostly women who have the picky standards from my personal experience. But yes there are some men out there who are picky.

My situation is a bit complicated because I had a hot ex once. So my standards for commitment are high. It seems like the type of women that I want to offer commitment to don't want me. While the women who want me, at best I might want to date them short-term, even cuddle, kiss and romance them. But not want to commit to them in an exclusive monogamous relationship. I've tried settling before. I was in a LTR with an ugly Chinese girl for nearly 2 years. And I was unhappy. So I don't think settling is a good idea for me.

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm really curious about it so I'll ask:
How can you be blue pill and black pill at the same time?
Quite paradoxical. I'd like to hear your explanation and I'm not being sarcastic or cynical.

[–]alienamongnormiesBlackPill 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think the black pill worldview is too fatalistic while the blue pill worldview is too idealistic rather than realistic. I can't live in a paradigm where women are good for nothing but their warm, wet box. That's too depressing to think about. Casual sex is extremely empty. The only time in my life where I have felt fulfillment was when I was in a LTR with a woman I loved and whom loved me back. Unfortunately she left me. I want to hold out for hope of romance and love.

However I also accept the importance of looks, money, status, height and penis size and realize how shallow women (and men) are. I recognize how women are monkey branching like crazy. How these hoes ain't loyal. I recognize how women leverage male thirst to use men for their own personal gain. Men are just as shallow as women. It's just that all but the top-tier men typically have a lot less leverage than women.

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So you accept that humanity, for the most part, is very shallow.

But you have the faith to find love even if you have to participate in this whole game of status, money and physical traits to find it.

Is that so?

[–]upalseBogPill 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Saying a 26 year old girl is post-wall sounds me as surreal and absurd as saying a 5'10.5 man is short.

I don't follow RP/incel mantras all that closely, do they really say that? I was under impression post-24 is a slow decline in looks. I always assumed the true "hard" wall is when people start getting fat and gross, which can be anywhere between 28 to 35 (depends on ethnicity and culture a lot), with few unicorns who put in the hard work rocking the scene well into their 40s.

[–]TryLambda 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’ve seen beautiful girls turn into land whales in their latter 20s

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, yes, some people gain quite a bit of weight over the years. It doesn't happen to everyone either.

[–]cryptothrow2 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seen it happen in a college semester and one year of national service

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I have seen that they are starting to say that.

Maybe I'm getting too speculative but at times it feels like a kind of revenge:
"Women are getting more and more demanding about height?
Well, we'll get more and more demanding about age."

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Saying a 26 year old girl is post-wall sounds me as surreal and absurd

It doesn't sound absurd.Beauty will start its decline at 20 then slowly decline at 24, rapid decline starts at 29 so at 28-30 they hit the wall.If they didn't take care,after teen is the wall.You are young that's why you are finding older women cute.Just wait to get old then you will realise.

But for men's height,I do find its standard absurd as most are taller than women already.So I find standards radicalizing only for women.

[–]IHateNormis 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, I don’t think it is radicalising for both genders. A 26 year old female may be called post wall but the female can still have sex and relationships on demand. With a guy who doesn’t meet the height threshold it is over though

[–]BumblingBeta 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

The stuff that men say is mainly just counteracting the high standards of women. They think that by saying these ridiculous things ("women hit the wall at 30", "women hit the wall at 25" etc.) it will get women to lower their standards. It's fighting fire with fire, if you see what I mean.

But look at men's actions - if you watch porn or see the different onlyfans models, you'll see men's tastes are massively varied. Even fat old ugly grannies are sexually desired by men. Every type of woman is desired by some man out there. The men in youtube chats on fresh and fit channel will call women sluts and hoes and insult them, then they'll go and subscribe to their instagrams and onlyfans and simp for them.

Women's standards have been warped by social media and the internet. We also live in a gynocentric, knowledge based and service based economy. The advantages males have in such an environment, like physical strength, disappear. It completely favors women. In such an environment, the average man becomes useless to her.

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I also see it as a kind of "revenge" or something like that:
"If they ask for more and more height, we will ask for more and more youth."
If you realize both qualities are very difficult to obtain by means that are not natural: either you are tall or you aren't; either you are (or look) young or you aren't.

It's also true that men seem to have a very varied taste when it comes to women: little princesses, tomboys, goths, fit girls, short girls, tall girls, skinny girls, thick girls, overweight girls, girls with odd features and girls of all ethnicities; almost anyone seem to have the potential to attract a large number of men.
Women, in general, tend to have a more closed taste when it comes to men. That's my impression, I could be wrong.

If physical strength no longer seems to be important in our environment, what qualities do you think help a contemporary man to have a satisfying life?

[–]BumblingBeta 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes exactly, I agree.

If physical strength no longer seems to be important in our environment, what qualities do you think help a contemporary man to have a satisfying life?

In terms of women? I notice the men who do well with women are tall, decent looking face, great social skills, able to have fun (not really intense or serious all the time).

As far as muscles go, good visible abs are all that's needed. You can be muscular all you want, but it seems that women don't give a crap unless you have nice looking visible abs.

Men who struggle with women are either short, bad face, poor social skills or autistic/aspergers in some way, or they are too serious and unable to loosen up and have fun.

When you're respected by other men and at the top of a male social hierarchy, that also attracts women. That ties in with social skills. I always noticed that any male leader of a particular group never has trouble with women. It's always the losers who are at the bottom of the social totem pole who struggle with women.

Not sure what you think, but that's what I have observed.

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree.
Good looks and good social skills will probably get you a good life. I don't think it's something of our time though: it's always been that way.

I'm not saying that if you don't have impressive looks or great social skills you can't be happy, but you'll probably have more difficulties of all kinds.

[–]BumblingBeta 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can be bad at a lot of things in life, and even have physical defects that can be cured (eg. bad vision with glasses), but when it comes to social skills, you pretty much have to be good at them otherwise your life will be immensely difficult and low quality. It's quite depressing and something which a lot of people are ignorant and don't understand, because they were always comfortable around people and love socialising.

[–]kokorwqac 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know some girls who prefer shorter guys thıugh, i think the problem is men these days mostly look for promiscous casual sex women these days

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe that the problem is not in a single factor. Our whole situation today, speaking of dating, relationships, love and sex, is quite complex and multifactorial.

It's true that there are some women who don't care about the height of a potential boyfriend or husband, but they are a minority: most girls have as a fundamental requirement that the guy be at least a little taller than them; then, as I said, there are those who consider you a disposable midget if you don't reach 6'.

Perhaps it's true many men these days are looking for casual sex. I think it happens, in part, because movies, series and media bombard us into thinking it's easy to get that lifestyle and that that's the best lifestyle you can have.

It seems also true minorities are very noisy:
Most people think that incels are potential mass murderers just because two or three of them have gone to those extremes.
Under this logic, it's to be expected many men think it's easy to get casual sex from most women because some of them are up for it these days. Then, because they can't get all that casual sex they start to resent it.

[–]BlackPillPusher 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think that everyone should have standards and that decent standards is what moves us forward as a society, the problem arises when those standards are absolutely unrealistic, which is the trope these days, any Instagram run of the mill 5/10 plain jane lusts after a subset of men so tiny she will probably never even interact with them at any capacity, let alone lock one of them down, because those people have options.

Another common delusion and a bit of a pet peeve of mine, is the thinking of the so called "incel" community, who firmly believe that every man deserves an 18 y/o supermodel wife just for existing while disregarding the fact that historically only about 20% of men actually got to pass on their genes, they also willingly ignore everything we know about the human sexual market and clearly have an unwarranted superiority complex which doesn't make them a whole lot different from the aforementioned speciemen.

All in all, if you really want a mate - just lower your expectations, be simple and honest, and if people don't like it at the end of the day you still have your best friend in the world with you, your true self.

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

historically only about 20% of men actually got to pass on their genes

I've always had doubts about this...
If so few men pass on their genes why do most of the men I know have children?
That most men have children is a very recent thing?

[–]BlackPillPusher 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because of a little tiny thing called male scarcity, which mostly due to the anti war moods in the west post WW2 and the hippie dippie bullshit of the boomer generation who spent 20 years in a giant fuckorgy is temporary on hold, but it will soon enough change, as dictated by human nature.

What I want to say is that if you think that male workplace, combat and violent crime deaths are way too high you have it backwards, it's actually extremely, extremely low in comparison to the past.

[–]Purple-Heiss[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What I want to say is that if you think that male workplace, combat and violent crime deaths are way too high you have it backwards, it's actually extremely, extremely low in comparison to the past.

What you are saying is that if the number of sexless men continues to grow things will get very ugly?
I've heard this several times; it doesn't seem impossible to me but I don't know if we're anywhere close to it either.

It's a very obscure question, but what do you think will happen once the number of sexless men reaches a critical mass?, high levels of suicide?, economic crisis? (I imagine many men will have no incentive to work), increase in mass murderers?, civil wars?...

[–]BlackPillPusher 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's less about access to sex, which these days really is not an issue at all regardless of where you are on the planet, it's about the male drive for competition, as an older generation along with it's values leaves the positions of power they held a new one rises to fill them with it's own set of values, new alliances are forged, new enemies are made, kingdoms rise and fall as they have since time immemorial, and the more men are out there competing to get to the top of that pyramid the more chaotic and brutal this process will eventually become.

A good example is the current war in Ukraine, most older soviet era russian leaders are either already dead or left due to old age, Putler himself isn't very healthy either, and others, younger high ranking politicians and military commanders know very well that a power vaccum is coming and it's coming soon, and convincing an elderly central committee special agent to show off his bravado is like taking candy from a baby, of course it might trigger another world war, but that's the price of power, it's never given.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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