Found PUA notes in bf's journals

CandyBoBandDandy · 2020-06-12T19:51:27+00:00

That's pretty disturbing, do you happen to know how old the journal is by chance? It might be some old cringey stuff he got over. Has he displayed any weird, secretive behavior or said sexist stuff in the past?

I'm not sure the best way to approach this, sometimes people change, but it's a pretty big red flag

KhaleesiCat7 · 2020-06-12T22:20:47+00:00

[deleted]

Rhazelle · 2020-06-12T21:57:21+00:00

So it sounds like these notes were from 13 years ago and that he doesn't exhibit any red pill red flags in the time that you've known him. That's good, and yes while I agree that 13 years is a long time and that people change and he likely doesn't think the same way now, I'd still be wary.

That he took notes on it means he was "studying" and delving deeply into the topic, and more disturbingly that it resonated enough with him that he kept going. Well-adjusted people don't think it's EVER ok to manipulate their partner, much less preemptively plan to have multiple that they lie to and cheat on. That basic mentality that he ever considered that OK in any form is what worries me.

When that was written he wasn't some troubled angsty teenager, naive to the world and impressionable. He was 30 years old. I'm 28 and I know damn well where I stand on things. Misogyny and racism are bad. Abortions should be allowed. I support gay marriage and trans rights. And cheating and manipulating your partner is bad.

Think about it. With my (and it seems yours as well) morals and beliefs, red pill is puke worthy, sad, and disgusting. Yet he was around your age when he discovered this same line of thought and his moral compass went "Oh man this is neat, I should study it!".

He was a grown ass adult who had enough life experience to know where he stood on issues and what his morals are. Once established, those rarely change over time barring some pretty extreme eye-opening circumstances. 10 years from now, I guarantee I will still put my foot down and tell you I think racism is bad, that all coloured, gay, trans people deserve the same rights, opportunities, respect as everyone else, and that cheating and manipulating is STILL BAD.

You said he's made sexist remarks off the cuff. That's the kind of stuff that shows that even if he doesn't outwardly exhibit these behaviours, that he may still harbour some of these views that led him to go "oh this is okay" in the first place.

Which means if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't be able to trust that even if he were good to me now, that he wouldn't think it's ok to lie to me to suit his needs, manipulate me to get things he wants, or cheat on me if the opportunity arises. The fundamental trust I have in him would be broken. I'd still talk to him about it and see what he says, but the trust would have been damaged and he'd have to show me beyond doubt that he has reformed and that he would never do any of that and show it over a long period of time to even remotely get it back. (I'm also not a very forgiving person though, maybe others would have an easier time lol.)

WestAtmosphere · 2020-06-12T22:39:59+00:00

I get that people go through phases, but it’s a little but different when people are classifying who they associate with based on certain terms. Yes people can change and there should be hope to change.

But regardless it’s still sort of creepy. I’d be personally weird out, yes the journals are from what you said 2007? So 13 years ago, but he was also 30 years old then. He wasn’t 20 years old sorting out some angst.

Do you truly know him at his core? Or is that his core and he’s been playing the “game” as said in his journals. I can understand your worry, as he literally laid out a game plan in the journal. It’s not like he wrote “I hate feminists” or something general.

Also, to anyone that claims that she was snooping, obviously that’s not the case if it was on a random bookshelf that anyone could have access to. She didn’t go through his phone, any other electronic device, did the journal even have like a label on it that said some kind of indicator that it was a personal journal? If so then that’d be a violation of privacy. But I have a shitton of those basic generic notebooks around that were from school that are unsuspecting and usually contain old work I’ve done.

Integrity really is what you are doing when no one else is watching.

Hellion_shark · 2020-06-13T00:33:09+00:00

"I want to envelop them and swallow them and absorb them completely for a short period of time then move on" Sooooo dramatic. Why are they always so dramatic in such a cringy way?

Pn topic. Idk OP. I'm sorry. I would probably bring up the red pill, in general, to see where he stands now, and then act accordingly.

Bill_R94 · 2020-06-13T11:53:29+00:00

He wrote a classification system of women based on cheating (which he admitted to doing 'on the road') as a grown 30 year old man. He didn't write someone else's system as impressionable people do, he came up with his own based on his experiences. That means there's a strong chance he still holds these beliefs and has cheated/is cheating on you. The thing is, there's no way for you to know for sure unless you catch him.

No one should tell you what to do or how to feel, but I can tell you how I would feel which is what you asked. If I found something like that, I wouldn't be able to trust that person again.

tomowudi · 2020-06-12T23:06:23+00:00

Do you know the name of the PUA teacher those notes would have been from? The PUA community has been around for well over a decade online. That notebook could have been when he was in his early 30's a decade before you met.

As men get older, and especially after they have gotten a better relationship with themselves, their attitudes about women can change drastically. Plus, there has been a pretty massive cultural shift.

So 10 years ago, you would have been 23 and dating dudes 18 to 30.

He was 33 and TRYING to pick up women between 18 and 40. And failing often enough that he paid up to $2K for the information in that notebook.

The PUA community is basically self-help for insecure males who are scared of intimacy and the women who they feel will reject them. The more success these guys get with women via the manipulative techniques the PUA community teaches... the more 1 of 2 things happens.

They become lone assholes that only have toxic, unhealthy relationships where they are always in control. Because they have massive trust issues, and their massive insecurity means they are always attacking people whenever they feel scared or inadequate.
They happen upon a partner or 2 that they develop an actual healthy relationship, which surprises the shit out of them, and they manage to ruin it. Hard. And then they regret that shit and start examining how badly the fucked up a good thing. And then they start to heal because instead of blaming women, they recognize that the one thing all their relationship had in common was them.

My guess is that your boyfriend is in the second camp. If he was crafty and fucking mistresses on the side, he wouldn't have put his playbook on his bookshelf.

Practice being a good partner. Talk to him about it, and let him know that you read it because you were curious, were surprised at what you found, and that you are scared he is being unfaithful because of some of what you read....

but that you trust him.

And you trust that he will be honest with you because the man you are with is not the man you recognize in those notes.

It was a long time ago, and what you need to feel better is for him to help you understand what was true for him back then, what is true for him now, and what might have changed between then and now.

If my wife found something like that of mine, and I hadn't brought it up before, I might be nervous, embarrassed, and a bit defensive that she went through my stuff. I would probably try to avoid and deflect for a bit until I felt safe, because that shit would be surprising and scary.

And if my wife was patient with me, and took the time to first acknowledge how I felt violated and uncomfortable about her questions, and she was only ASKING ME TO HELP HER UNDERSTAND ME SO THAT SHE COULD NOT BE AFRAID, I would eventually be able to feel safe enough to explain what had happened, what trauma I went through, and how I pulled myself out of it to be the man she's with today.

I might even feel proud that I accomplished that, especially if my wife remarked about how brave and difficult it must be to be put on the spot the way she had just put me. Through no fault of her own - just the sort of random shit that happens when couples live together. What's hers is mine, and what's mine is ours, etc. :p

GeoffTheArteest · 2020-06-12T20:13:21+00:00

I agree that it is wrong to snoop through your significant others personal journals without their consent. That´s entirely different topic of it´s own.

Personally, I would be honest with your partner about what you found. It does complicate things discussing this with your partner because you discovered this information by violating his privacy. If he is not comfortable talking about it, then I wouldn´t dig into it because you discovered it through violating his trust. You should also apologize for snooping.

I know I was attracted to PUA because I wanted to learn how to better interact with women. How to attract them, and create connection. However PUA also has so much philosophy that is garbage, and many of the PUA teachers are heavily focused on getting laid. I ended up abandoning PUA because it was an ineffective way to address my lack of social skills.

I would argue that your significant other at one point was trying to figure out how to better interact with women so that he could date someone he found attractive. It is also possible he was more sex focused and wanted to figure out how to have more sex with attractive women. Most PUA view of women is narrow minded and objectifying. Hopefully anything he did learn, he filtered out PUA garbage philosophy on women and only held onto the few tips that helped him improve socially. Which is very difficult to do when swept up into the PUA community.

I would be concerned if he still follows PUA teachers, because listening to PUA advice consistently can easily distort a males perspective on women. It´s like sticking your finger into water that has dye in it... If you dip your finger in it for a short time, you can wash the dye off. But if you hold your finger in it for days, the dye sinks in to the skin and is harder to wash off. Similarly, PUA teachers will distort peoples perspectives, and if a person persistently listens to PUA teachers, it will likely ruin their perspective on women, even if their intentions are good.

sarah-goldfarb · 2020-06-14T02:58:44+00:00

He WILL just lie to you. Yes, the journals are old, but so is your BF and he was a fully-formed 30-year-old adult when he wrote it. I would never be comfortable having a relationship with someone who had ever held those views, mayyyybe if they were like 14 at the time, but not 30. This means he habitually cheated on women throughout his 20s. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

I know it's tempting to seek answers but you already have all the evidence you need, and if you confront him, you are only opening yourself up to being manipulated. You need to get away from this guy.

Also no, it's not really the right sub. You should go to a relationship advice subreddit.

emzw · 2020-06-14T16:14:32+00:00

Get the hell out of there! That’s what I would do. Men shouldn’t think hating women like this “is a normal phase they all go thru”, it’s morally wrong! When you mislead and coerce (manipulation is using psychological coercion) women into having sex with you, that is rape! He is, or used to be, a serial rapist. He used to sexual abuse and traumatize women FOR FUN! That’s so disgusting to me, I could not live with that! Even if it has been hundreds of years ago, he still did that to those women. Nothing can change that. Is this what you think you deserve, a reformed serial rapist? Is a man like that worthy your love?

CanadianTurt1e · 2020-06-12T19:40:34+00:00

This actually raises more questions about you. What does this say about you?

You looked through your boyfriend's personal journals without his permission?
You're the one that's dating him at the end of the day.

See this is the type of shit that brings people back into the redpill phase. You say all this about your BF, but at the end of the day, he's got you. What does this say to all the newcomers in this sub that came here for redpill detoxing? It shows them that as "toxic" as it may be, redpiller information works at the end of the day. He baited you and reeled you in successfully.

If you want to put your money where your mouth is. You'd dump him immediately. If not, then you pretty much have to accept the fact that a redpiller got ahold of you and kept you interested for the long run. You're forced to admit that you're dating the very type of person you hate.

Title	Found PUA notes in bf's journals
Author	KhaleesiCat7
Upvotes	21
Comments	27
Date	June 12, 2020 7:34 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/h7rh9j/found_pua_notes_in_bfs_journals/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/found-pua-notes-in-bfs-journals.673395 https://theredarchive.com/post/673395

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