Help a 21 year old understand.

Hawanja · 2020-10-13T05:35:36+00:00

What exactly do you want people to rebutt again?

You went out with a girl, then broke up, and your parents hate each other but not really or some shit? Like, what am I supposed to be opposed to?

Except that you read that Rollo Tomassi horseshit, I guess. That guy is a fucking sleazebag, if you follow his advice you're an idiot.

hexalby · 2020-10-13T06:17:26+00:00

The trp appears true because it built its ideology on self-fulfilling prophecies. It's a totalizing view of the world that leaves no possibility open, not even those that it sees as positive.

RedPillDetox · 2020-10-13T08:22:09+00:00

I used to be a hardcore red piller. Then I left it after seeing how much my newfound beliefs were hurting my gf at the time. (...) We broke up and I started seeing a new girl. That also ended. Didnt have sex with her. She was a virgin and didnt allow for anything "down there" to happen. (...) I start analyzing everything (as we all should to learn from mistakes) and never understood why she didnt open herself up to me completely.

So you used TRP and it failed you.

BlastedScallywags · 2020-10-13T12:50:32+00:00

If you want a rebuttal I can give you one.

Your statement that you've 'become okay with accepting having to perform in life as long as my woman will acknowledge me for it' is kinda sad and frankly, a bit premature. I'm not trying to be patronising, but you're only 21, you're too young to cynically resign yourself to just pretending to be the man you think women want so you can get what you think you need from them.

" It feels as though life has opened up and I have to make up for the answers that my parents couldn't obtain. " That's called transitioning to adulthood. That's what literally every person has to do when they start to build their life for themselves, and it takes a long time, and it doesn't finish the moment you turn 18, or 21, or the moment you first put your dick in someone. TRP gives you an easy answer to fill the gaps that are left from our childhood, a way of putting up neat little walls and placing people behind them in nice, easy to understand rows. It's a facsimile of life experience, one without the stress, pain, and heartbreak of the real world, it simply is too good to be true. In giving you that pre-packaged world view it puts up walls and barriers to other ways of seeing things, by it's nature it is rigid and inflexible (Rollo Tomassi doesn't make money from people exploring other ideas). How can you grow as a person if you sit comfortably behind those walls?

The real question you need to ask is, "What do I want from my life, from my relationships with others?". If you want to find out, you have to live, and that means making yourself vulnerable, opening yourself up to new ways of living, new ways of seeing the world, and to other people. It's difficult, it takes time, and it means accepting the risk of pain or heartbreak, this is why people who have been abused, or had difficult childhoods, find it so difficult to be open emotionally or physically.

"I start analyzing everything (as we all should to learn from mistakes) and never understood why she didnt open herself up to me completely." Growth doesn't just mean solitary reflection - you can't perform therapy on yourself. If you wanted that answer, you would need to talk to her, and, more importantly, to listen.

If you wanted an answer as to why she wouldn't have sex with you, she would have to make herself vulnerable to you by revealing things about herself that you could exploit, that could damage your image of her or could cause you to leave her. In short, she would need to trust you. But if you did know the truth, and accepted her, not only would she feel seen, but your new understanding would help you to act appropriately, and together come up with a plan to build your relationship moving forward and overcome the issue facing if you. If no path seemed viable, then that is a clear sign that your relationship is not viable, allowing you both to end things with a mutual understanding. But all that means nothing without trust; the real question is, Why should she trust you? If you are following the red pill, you are not being open to her, you are hiding the truth of your feelings and vulnerabilities in favour of an image of stoic masculinity. Why should she be open to you when you are so closed off to her? What did you tell her of your inner self, your anxieties and insecurities. Someone always has to take the first step, but could she trust you to reciprocate?

"As of right now, I wonder if people have a hard time accepting trp because they cant see their loved ones labeled with certain patterns." Yes, this is right. That does not mean those patterns are right. If you zoom out far enough you can find patterns in anything, women are more likely to do this, men are more likely to think that, that means nothing in the real world. As Shakespeare put it, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

" I think Ive become a bit more accepting of trp because I can see my parents through those lenses and still love them dearly... " Frankly i'm not to sure what you mean by this, but I will say this - adulthood is a long journey of discovering that your parents are, in fact, just normal people. They lived long lives before you were ever born, and there are things about them you will never truly understand, Rollo Tomasi and Alexander Grace certainly can't explain your parent's marital issues. You see your parents through those lenses but still love them dearly? Why see them through those lenses at all? Is that how low the bar is for self help ideology these days? That it doesn't make you hate your parents?

I hope you don't take any of my words too harshly, I understand the appeal of totalizing ideologies like TRP all to well. If you want my advice, go to therapy, not because I think you're broken, and not because I think therapy will fix you but because it's excellent practice for life. A good therapist will hold a mirror to your life, and ask questions you would never have thought to ask yourself, they can shine a light on what you shy away from. Give it a try, what do you have to lose?

palacesofparagraphs · 2020-10-13T05:34:32+00:00

The problem with TRP isn't just that it ascribes certain patterns to behavior, but that it encourages unhealthy responses and assumptions based on those patterns. Mainly, TRP makes generalizations about men and women (generally ones that are pretty uncharitable towards women) that encourage men to look at romance as something scientific or mathematical, when the fact is that relationships of any kind are far more complicated than that. Yes, it would be nice if you could come up with a formula for getting the best partner, but that isn't how it works. People can't be easily ranked from best to worst, because everyone looks for different things in a partner. Your perfect partner might drive me totally crazy.

Furthermore, people aren't computers that run certain scenarios and need you to find the correct inputs. People are complex. Sometimes they're irrational. Sometimes their intentions aren't what you assume. Sometimes they don't feel about things the way you feel. Instead of assuming you know how a partner will behave or how they'll react to a certain situation, you need to talk to them. There are millions of ways to build a good relationship, but all of them involve a foundation of trust and communication.

Ultimately, the central problem with TRP is that it frames relationships as a game in which your partner is your opponent, when really a healthy relationship is one in which your partner is your teammate.

Bjay_jw · 2020-10-13T14:47:15+00:00

I think this whole post was very broad with no details...

Also, this subreddit is for people in redpill wanting to get out of it not for people who like the redpill and don't see a problem with it. You have to do the first part which is seeing the issues of trp and we help with the rest.

Edit: I can say though a problem in society is living life for others instead finding what you like or enjoy, being true to yourself so others will accept you as you are. You can weed out all the bad people. Not following some weird cultish belief that tells you how you should act. I can see that having someone lead a very lonely and kinda depressing lifestyle.

Mr_KenSpeckle · 2020-10-13T17:06:27+00:00

Forget labels. Consider everything. Keep a critical mind. Use the good. Leave the bad. Everyone is fallible. Don't spend too much time online. Get out into the sunshine. Enjoy the moment.

deranged_berserker · 2020-10-15T14:17:26+00:00

Ive become okay with accepting having to perform in life as long as my woman will acknowledge me for it (otherwise thats a terrible partner lol).

That's your first problem.

Yesm3can · 2020-10-14T15:53:20+00:00

I'd say you are light years ahead by bringing your parents' relationship problems as one of the source of feeling lost in looking for directions to go with relationships.

Do you know how many people are completely absolving their parents of all crimes? Even people who claimed to be born ugly. Blaming society for seeing them as invisible, instead of blaming their genes givers (aka their biological parents).

Not all women want, let alone need (fuck I am so tired of seeing people acting as if romantical relationship is a need instead of a pure fucking want. As if being single is equal to food and drink starvation) a strong man. Both should be strong themselves.

War widows are not withered and died after their husbands bit the dusts, they rebuild instead.

You be a strong person...for yourself. And maybe along the way, you come across a woman as strong as yourself and have similar future visions. Just then, you might find something good.

Don't be captain save a ho, don't be a ho that needed to be saved by a captain. Don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm, don't be the burden that makes others have to light themselves on fire to keep you warm.

RageStreak · 2020-10-18T19:40:11+00:00

I think the problem with the red pill is that there is some truth to their theories about women and it does “work” in some sense. Where is fails terribly is in a broader philosophical sense.

Firstly, the patterns of manipulation identified by TRP do exist. But by fixating on these patterns and dedicated so much time and energy to “winning” these games, men of TRP build a self-fulfilling prophecy around themselves. When you become obsessed with anything you’ll start to notice it everywhere. Then, because TRP is obsessed by certain behaviors and always looking for proof of those behaviors, that is all they notice and they become more embittered and feel more that the dating world is a hostile wasteland.

If you spend the same amount of energy becoming your best self and learning what good behaviors you want in a partner, then you’ve started a positive feedback loop instead of a negative one and will get better results.

In short TRP casts women as the source of all manipulation in any relationship when really it’s their own obsession with manipulation which brings those types of relationships into their experience. They want to pass the buck to women, when really they’re the ones obsessed by mind games and manipulation.

Secondly, TRP might “work” when it comes to having more sex or avoiding humiliation. But these aims are philosophically unsound. TRP teaches men that if they follow all the rules, they will never get hurt and will always be the top dog. But there is much more to life than avoiding pain. Anyone who attempts anything meaningful will get hurt. Anyone who tries something new and brave will fail and be humiliated. It’s inevitable in any fully lived life. The goal isnt to avoid these pitfalls by giving up on human connection, the goal is to go through these pitfalls and come out the other end stronger and more invested in life, not less invested.

And sex isn’t everything. So many of the posts in TRP are cringe bragging about obviously awkward sexual encounters which were based on trickery and resentment. Theres nothing sadder. It’s not a good goal.

There is some truth to TRP and in some sense it works. But the goals TRP has set for itself are misguided.

OooooorahNZ · 2020-10-25T20:37:47+00:00

TRP didn't work for you, right? There's nothing to rebut there and most relationships have problems so your parents aren't unique at all in that.

Basically, you tried TRP and ran face-first into a wall, injuring yourself in the process. Now you're asking others to help you understand why running into a wall isn't helpful. You know that what you were trying wasn't useful to you (good on you for recognizing that) so it makes sense to look at other options.

Best of luck on your journey.

Title	Help a 21 year old understand.
Author	throwuh_way
Upvotes	1
Comments	45
Date	October 13, 2020 4:26 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/ja6i3v/help_a_21_year_old_understand/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/help-a-21-year-old-understand.317370 https://theredarchive.com/post/317370

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