what are some good sources for debunking manosphere talking point ?

LadylikeElectricland · 2021-08-27T22:54:44+00:00

Here's a red pill detox first aid kit. It goes through some of the key manosphere talking points and debunks them with studies.

I know you mean well and you must really like your friend, but it's difficult to change minds (particularly when infested with this kind of nonsense) and sometimes indifference can be more powerful than a good argument. They say that when your toddlers start cursing you are much better off ignoring it than trying to change it by telling them off, explaining why it's wrong or even punishing them. The idea is that if you do not react, they'll simply stop cursing because they are doing it just to get your attention. Consider using an 'adult' version of this on your friend. When he brings up this nonsense, just roll your eyes and change the topic, or say, 'listen, you know I disagree and I really do not want to talk about it anymore; I don't find it interesting or useful.'

ZacKaizen · 2021-08-27T22:35:59+00:00

You would need to be more specific as there are different factions in the manosphere and some of them contradict each other (and some even contradict themselves). What points is he saying that you are trying to refute?

zoemondo · 2021-08-27T21:58:38+00:00

A great way to debunk opinions is to ask questions. Lots of questions. Such as, where did you learn that? Why is that person an expert? What are their qualifications? Why are people with little or no experience with women claiming to be experts on women? Are you sure that's a healthy way to approach anybody? How does one shitty person prove all women are like that? Are you aware men do the same thing? And so on... make up your own questions too to fit the conversation.

Just by playing devil's advocate and asking enough of the right questions, eventually they dig themselves into a hole. The double standards, personal biases, logical fallacies, moral failings, these kind of problems will surface. An ideology isn't a very good one if it's not consistent with both itself and reality.

thetruthishere_ · 2021-08-27T23:14:59+00:00

Id let him live his own life and he will learn his own lessons.

pli55k3n · 2021-08-28T03:45:11+00:00

Just keep laughingly referring to it as the "Manure-sphere" and don't acknowledge when he tries to correct you.

Okay but in all seriousness, I think the biggest hurdle when trying to de-radicalize somebody from the red pill/alt-right/incel/black pill pipeline is breaking through their conditioning and defensive tendency to label any source of conflicting information as "cucked" or propaganda from (((them)))

I think one of the most misleading things about manure-sphere/red pill content is the idea that its consumers have this instantaneous eye-opening revelation, the way it's depicted in the film The Matrix. In reality it's a slow and steady trickle-feed of indoctrinating material over time that demoralizes and brainwashes them and it would take an equal measure of counter-points (ContraPoints?) and time to gently coax them out of their diminished and dogmatic worldview.

You'll just need to be patient with your friend, keep a close eye on the kind of material he's exposing himself to, examine it yourself, know it well enough to be able to argue against it, and just regularly challenge and call into question the bullshit being fed to him. It's going to be rough, there'll be times where you might have to lose a battle to win the war, but investing the time and energy into showing him how much you care about his well-being and the kind of man he might become is the only way to get him to question the bullshit being fed to him.

EDIT - had to change a word around that the bot didn't like.

vcreativ · 2021-08-28T11:33:05+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lCK7HuLUwA

Shortcut: Ask him if he wants to be like any of the guys above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

The Socratic Method is basically a cooperative dialogue, which distinguishes it from a debate which can be considered quite competitive.

"... it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."

In a nutshell, his position matters, yours doesn't. What you would be convinced by is meaningless. It's all about him.

To me simple logic is considerably less opaque then stats and therefore less expensive and more useful. If used correctly it's akin to a hot knife through butter. For example, "I don't trust women", "do you trust your mom", "sure", "is she a woman", "...", case (hopefully) closed.

Few-Ad-957 · 2021-08-28T15:49:51+00:00

I don’t know if this is a source, but I really enjoy reading we hunted the mammoth! It’s a blog that tries to cover the sheer stupidity of many people on the manosphere, and I really enjoy reading it from time to time!

PublicDomainKitten · 2021-08-28T11:21:37+00:00

The best source for 'debunking' anything is by use of actual fact.

Facts -- used correctly and not just cherry-picked to support your chosen world view or interpreted incorrectly to prove whatever point you're trying make -- are absolute.

Also, knowing what logical fallacies are, and how to correct them in debates, is an under-rated skill indeed.

However, you may want to consider not debating with your friend or debunking anything. Just say, "I don't agree" or "Yeah, no," or even "Whatever" and don't get into it with him.

Someone in deep isn't going to listen to you, or anyone else who's consistently debunked it. Remember, they chose this because it supports whatever problems or behaviours they want to excuse. They think they already have all "the facts" (no matter how skewed or outright false) and your efforts may agitate or alienate them even more.

When I was in your position, I set clear boundaries on interactions and held to them. When those boundaries were crossed, I shut it down on the spot. If that meant walking away and catching up later, so be it. He caught on quickly and he changed his behaviour around me.

When I was with him, I focused on topics and activities that employed both compassion and reason, generic things that focused on people as people first, and gave him that non-threatening exposure.

By the time he decided he didn't want that life anymore, he discovered he'd burned almost every bridge he'd crossed. I was one of the few people who would even speak to him at that point, and my friendship and support mattered a lot.

However you decide to handle this, I wish you the best. Take care.

lil_Kingpin · 2021-08-28T12:11:32+00:00

I wouldn’t say I believe in any of those things and I’ve been called a black pill. I’d be interested to see where people like Courtney Ryan fall between ‘pills’ and subsequently where I do.

Title	what are some good sources for debunking manosphere talking point ?
Author	Worth_Supermarket348
Upvotes	23
Comments	27
Date	August 27, 2021 9:41 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/pcwsv2/what_are_some_good_sources_for_debunking/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/what-are-some-good-sources-for-debunking.1065336 https://theredarchive.com/post/1065336

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