Defining Positive Masculinity

2019-10-30T22:11:57+00:00

When one defines positive and 'toxic' masculinity one by definition establish gender roles, either by saying what is wrong or correct and by doing either one does both. In the end it matters little.

'The dose makes the poison'; one can even die from too much water. You see? It's about amounts.

Although the discussion is also about when something turns harmful. Women might look upon men competing and declare it machismo, while men will look at the way women talk to each other and call them bitchy. Each thinks the other group is being the worst kind of themselves, while each might not think it of themselves.

Who is to be arbiter of what people should and shouldn't do?

Why should you have the ability to declare what is wrong and what is right behavior?

Ironic enough, these questions were given by feminists to their opposition (the church, politicans, men, etc.), it is only fair that they also have to answer them; as should everyone who demands to dictate people's actions and thoughts.

GeekofFury · 2019-10-30T21:35:29+00:00

I don't bother worrying about it. To any one given feminist, toxic masculinity is just male behavior she doesn't like, so it can vary wildly. Just don't be an asshole, and beyond that, if people are mad, well, shit happens I guess.

As far as "positive masculinity," just be a good person, and do you.

ElderApe · 2019-10-31T02:31:56+00:00

Masculinity as a concept has always been defined by good traits. Strenght, independence, leadership, these are all good things. Toxic masculinity as a term should ideally be focused on the negative ramifications that often come about due to not living up to the standards of masculinity. Like when somebody get's violent in order to make up for being seen as weak. Toxic masculinity is not masculinity, it's a fill in.

To me the question is, when it comes to ideals, what is negative masculinity?

uncle_batman · 2019-10-30T21:13:29+00:00

When I think of positive masculinity, I think of "If" by Rudyard Kipling.

I realize many of the traits he describes aren't exclusive to masculinity, but I think it still fits many of the traits that I would call positive masculinity.

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2019-10-31T06:05:41+00:00

I've come to see masculinity as a sort of malleable thing.

There are several things about me that are "traditionally masculine" I prefer whiskey and I tend to drink it straight. I brew my own mead/cider. I love camping, Bushcraft and DIY projects. and etc.

But I also enjoy what some would describe as "traditionally feminine" things and hobbies. Like baking, Gardening, Cooking. and etc. And I would include them as part of my masculine identity.

That said. If I were to pick out a set of virtues that I would consider masculine. They would have to be something close to the 9 noble virtues of paganism/asatru.

Nine Noble Virtues"

Courage

Truth

Honour

Fidelity

Discipline

Hospitality

Self Reliance

Industriousness

Perseverance

2019-10-31T09:16:12+00:00

My way of approaching it: everyone (irrespective of gender or sex) should be free to be how and who they want to be, and ultimately (on a moral level) being a good person trumps being a good 'man' or 'woman'.

However, men and boys should also be made aware that society, in certain contexts (for example: dating), still expects certain traits from men and rewards men more for displaying these traits, whether it's fair or not. This knowledge should be used so that the person can make an informed decision about how they present themselves to the world and what aspects of themselves they might work on.

cromulent_weasel · 2019-10-31T01:38:19+00:00

What do you guys see as a positive model of masculinity that could be used to change the narrative surrounding men in our culture?

The real short version of that for me is 'being a good dad'.

bkrugby78 · 2019-10-31T03:58:24+00:00

I think of my dad helping to raise myself and my five brothers along with my mom. He did whatever he needed to do. Things weren't always great, and he sometimes had to help out at her business to do what needed to be done. Sure, my parents fought over the years, but they had each other's backs when things got rough.

Maybe that isn't so much positive masculinity as much as it is love. I guess for me, I can say I never felt pressured to do anything in the name of being male, rather, whatever I or my brothers chose, my parents gave us their support.

Blauwpetje · 2019-10-31T07:37:10+00:00

A big part of it is to me: not expecting others to sense your feelings and not thinking you know what somebody else feels. Assuming things are allright until it is spoken out they aren't. There are of course also women like that, but often those say they prefer the company of men because women make everything so complicated.

orbitaldecayed · 2019-10-31T15:00:26+00:00

"What do you guys see as a positive model of masculinity that could be used to change the narrative surrounding men in our culture?"

Clint Eastwood.

beeen_there · 2019-11-15T18:45:23+00:00

"toxic masculinity" is nothing but a discriminatory trope; a similar insult to "bimbo".

Positive masculinity is appreciation of and respect for others, good parenting, positive role models. These, in turn, are dictated by society. Unfortunately our societies tend to be biased towards capitalism and productivity.

So, positive masculinity, should be whatever a man says it is. Obviously barring any actual harm to others.

Title	Defining Positive Masculinity
Author	SpacebarOddity
Upvotes	10
Comments	24
Date	October 30, 2019 7:49 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/dpbs5d/defining_positive_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/defining-positive-masculinity.1203061 https://theredarchive.com/post/1203061

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